Signing a time commitment

cruwl

So the other primary Windows/VMware guy at work put in notice today. Our Head network engineer also put in notice at the 1st of the year. I am being offered to move into a more Sr. Windows/VMware role. I have already taken the lead for Windows and don't really have any concern there. My VMware skills/Exp are pretty solid, but I don't think I'm at the same level currently as the other guy. I have no doubt I'll be able to grow into the position.

I am being offered all the training classes he went through which includes the advanced VCP class, I just took the ICM last month as well as a couple others. I'm also in negotiations for a pretty decent raise hopefully 15%+.

Now for my question.

I am being asked to sign/pledge a time commitment to the company for this. Nothing is in stone or anything yet but my boss suggested a 1 or 2 year pledge.

Has anyone had any negative situations arise from agreeing to or breaking such a thing? Again it wont be a contract, but will probably have stipulations that I pay the training back or something if I leave early.

I also want to go back to school on the companies dime, and would imagine there would be another one of these pledges involved there. I also brought that up to my boss and maybe able to work it into this round of negotiations??

Also I'm very happy working here, and have told my self I have no desire to look any where else. The team is great, the environment is great, and the room for me to progress or learn is here for years to come.

Khaos1911

cruwl wrote: »

Also I'm very happy working here, and have told my self I have no desire to look any where else. The team is great, the environment is great, and the room for me to progress or learn is here for years to come.

I think that portion right there answers your question. Sounds like you have a good gig and you enjoy the work/environment. I'd negotiate the tuition reimbursement in as well and kill two birds with one stone while also getting a 15% raise.

My only regret in undergrad was I had an opportunity to accept a Department of Defense scholarship where they would have paid for all my schooling but I would have had to sign a "contract" to work in IT exclusively for them for four years after I graduated....I wish I hadn't been so afraid of that and signed, but life has turned out well so it wasn't a big deal. I've just always wanted to work IT on the federal level...I think it's because of the tv show, 24. I wanted to be the male "Chloe"

YFZblu

Agree with above - The only thing I'd add is that you want to sign the shortest contract possible. I've signed a 1-year before, two years is stretching it IMO.

cknapp78

This is actually a very common practice for companies. Most will include some form of repayment if you break the contract. Something along the line of...

EmployeeX has a 2 year commitment upon completion of training.
If EmployeeX leaves in the first year, he/she will repay 100% of training costs.
If EmployeeX leaves in the second year, he/she will repay 50% of training costs.

This usually applies to all training and tuition reimbursement. I can't count the number of times I have seen employees take advantage of companies without these agreements by leaving as soon as training is done. I can remember one instance when a guy had the company pay for all of his CCIE training and testing costs including a 2 week boot camp prior to sitting for his lab. The company had an agreement contract in place that is used. However, in this case, they forgot to have him sign it. He bolted about a week after he passed and stuck the company with a huge training bill. Kind of a low class move on his part, but you have to give him credit, he worked the system the right way.

Corey

cknapp78

Khaos1911 wrote: »

I think it's because of the tv show, 24. I wanted to be the male "Chloe"

Paging Doctor Freud....paging Doctor Freud. Your 2 PM Appointment is here.

the_Grinch

This is a fairly common practice among employers. If paying for certifications, I'd ask that they put a length for each certification. The MSP I was with did something like three months for every certification paid for. Biggest thing is everything needs to be in writing because while you might be happy now you don't know where you'll be in a year.

cruwl

Thanks guys, That's kinda what happen here. So I can totally see why they want one from me. and the fact they are throwing in a raise with it its cool with me.

I guess I was just looking for some "gotcha" things to look out for. Obviously it needs to be reasonable, the shortest time agreeable, and beneficial to me.

FloOz

Seems like you really like the place so I say go for it. Many companies do this now especially when it comes to reimbursement for a Master's degree. Last place I worked would make you sign a 3 year contract it.

instant000

If you leave after 11 months of the 12 month agreement, would you only owe one month's worth, or would you owe the entire year's worth?

I had a past employer that offered the benefit, and I didn't take advantage of it, because I thought I would leave and didn't want to bother with having to pay them back if I bolted. I stayed there 3.5 years!

ajs1976

I have seen agreements between 1 and 3 years. I think 3 years is a little long for IT training courses. I look for language about what happens if I quit vs get let go.

colemic

I would say you owe the year. If I understand your scenario correctly, you (hypothetically) signed an agreement that if you left within 12 months of course completion, you would owe 100% of the cost back. It's a definite you would owe the full year cost if it were a 2 year obligation (because it doesn't make sense that you would only have to pack back 1/12 the cost up to one year, then 50% after the one-year mark. If that makes sense.)If I were a business, I wouldn't offer prorated training agreements. All or nothing, to incentivize you to stay as long as possible.

instant000

FloOz wrote: »

Seems like you really like the place so I say go for it. Many companies do this now especially when it comes to reimbursement for a Master's degree. Last place I worked would make you sign a 3 year contract it.

Three years from the date you initially sign, or three years after you complete?

Three years seems excessive, unless they're allowing you to go to the school of your choice.

The benefit for schooling counts against your taxable income, if it exceeds 5K, usually.

Benefits over $5,250.

If your employer pays more than $5,250 in educational assistance benefits for you during the year, you must generally pay tax on the amount over $5,250. Your employer should include in your wages (Form W-2, box 1) the amount that you must include in income.

Working condition fringe benefit.

However, if the benefits over $5,250 also qualify as a working condition fringe benefit, your employer does not have to include them in your wages. A working condition fringe benefit is a benefit which, had you paid for it, you could deduct as an employee business expense. For more information on working condition fringe benefits, see Working Condition Benefits in chapter 2 of Publication 15-B, Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits.

Source: Publication 970 (2012), Tax Benefits for Education

Education.

Certain job-related education you provide to an employee may qualify for exclusion as a working condition benefit. To qualify, the education must meet the same requirements that would apply for determining whether the employee could deduct the expenses had the employee paid the expenses. Degree programs as a whole do not necessarily qualify as a working condition benefit. Each course in the program must be evaluated individually for qualification as a working condition benefit. The education must meet at least one of the following tests.

• The education is required by the employer or by law for the employee to keep his or her present salary, status, or job. The required education must serve a bona fide business purpose of the employer.
• The education maintains or improves skills needed in the job.

However, even if the education meets one or both of the above tests, it is not qualifying education if it:

• Is needed to meet the minimum educational requirements of the employee's present trade or business, or
• Is part of a program of study that will qualify the employee for a new trade or business.

Source: Publication 15-B (2014), Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits

Hrm. The "fringe benefit" rule.

So, I believe that if I pursued a MS or PhD in Networking, it could probably go against fringe benefits, since it would be job related. If I went after an MS or PhD in Mathematics, that would be a bit of a stretch.

FloOz

Hmmm I'm not really sure since I never pursued an MS degree from there. However I do know people that did and they got full tuition paid from even very accredited/expensive universities.

coreyb80

I was just talking to my team lead about this today. He's considering the VMWare course and the gig will pay for it as long as he commits for a year. Not a bad deal if you're really not considering moving on within that time frame.

cruwl

So went over things with the Boss man today. Looks like I was freaking out over nothing. All they wanted was a verbal commitment from me.

I pride my self on sticking to my word, and if that's good enough for them to move forward with everything I'm pretty happy.

jvrlopez

Glad it worked out. Sounds like you got a good thing lined up.

I was on a 1 year contract once and left at the 4 month mark. All the PTO I burned before leaving was voided and I went without being paid for those days. I also had to pay back for the training they sent me to.

That and the hiring manager told me I was a dirtbag for moving onto a job that paid over double.

--chris--

cknapp78 wrote: »

This is actually a very common practice for companies. Most will include some form of repayment if you break the contract. Something along the line of...

EmployeeX has a 2 year commitment upon completion of training.
If EmployeeX leaves in the first year, he/she will repay 100% of training costs.
If EmployeeX leaves in the second year, he/she will repay 50% of training costs.

This usually applies to all training and tuition reimbursement. I can't count the number of times I have seen employees take advantage of companies without these agreements by leaving as soon as training is done. I can remember one instance when a guy had the company pay for all of his CCIE training and testing costs including a 2 week boot camp prior to sitting for his lab. The company had an agreement contract in place that is used. However, in this case, they forgot to have him sign it. He bolted about a week after he passed and stuck the company with a huge training bill. Kind of a low class move on his part, but you have to give him credit, he worked the system the right way.

Corey

Side note/Cool story/somewhat related....

My wife's cousin is a Chemist for a large food company. He has always worked in the food trade and has proven himself as a performer. He signed a contract with one big company for 4 years of service. Year 2 came to an end, and he was offered a new job at a new place in NYC (having lived in BFE Michigan, he was excited to move to NYC). But wait, he had that 4 year agreement right? In which he had to repay a certain % of his PhD tuition that they paid for if he left early.

The new company ponied up and paid the balance to get him. He left the old company on such good terms they gave him his quarterly bonus 2 weeks early. He made out like a devil on that deal.

TL;DR, do it! Work your butt off, make yourself that guy...