V5 lab hardware

bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
I haven't seen a thread dedicated to this topic yet; only a few posts here and there in the various v5 threads so I thought I'd make a new thread for this to be discussed.

I have a vested interest in this, as it looks like none of my current switches (2950, 3550) will support vtp v3, so I'm already looking at doing some sort of upgrade. 2960's and 3560's support vtpv3, but only 3560's support igmpv3. At least non-gigabit 3560's are currently going for as low as 55-60 on ebay right now. The lab itself uses 3560X models.

Additionally my routers are all 2600s which are ancient, plus one 2610xm which won't run ios 15. I haven't had quite as much luck finding a router model cheap enough to not make me wince that does. The lab from what I've read uses 2900 series routers.

Has anyone else researched this as well? If so feel free to post your findings and thoughts.
Latest Completed: CISSP

Current goal: Dunno
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Comments

  • ande0255ande0255 Banned Posts: 1,178
    Is GNS3 a viable option for the R&S v5 lab if you can obtain the IOS images? I have been thinking after I tackle the NP of selling my lab equipment and running everything virtual or buying rack time at INE, as I believe the new CCIE lab is completely virtual.

    Really hoping the new GNS3 can handle switch images, anyone have any further knowledge on this topic by chance?

    EDIT:

    Just read the early release notes, and it looks like GNS3 will still be so limited on switching features with the new release that it won't be valuable beyond CCNA level topics.
  • keenonkeenon Member Posts: 1,922 ■■■■□□□□□□
    according to cisco 3560/3750 depending on the version of code it will work fine.
    Become the stainless steel sharp knife in a drawer full of rusty spoons
  • networkjutsunetworkjutsu Senior Member Member Posts: 275 ■■■□□□□□□□
    ande0255 wrote: »
    Really hoping the new GNS3 can handle switch images, anyone have any further knowledge on this topic by chance?

    GNS3 can handle switch images by using IOU/IOL. CML/VIRL is what I am really looking forward to. Makes me think that I should sell my gears too.
  • networkjutsunetworkjutsu Senior Member Member Posts: 275 ■■■□□□□□□□
    keenon wrote: »
    according to cisco 3560/3750 depending on the version of code it will work fine.

    But, the older 3560s/3750s aren't compatible with IOS 15 right?
  • bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I'd love to be able to use gns3 & iou, but both of them have failed me at times. GNS3 with multicast and iou with spanning-tree. GNS3 also occasionally fails me in other ways (large size & quantity pings seem to break it), so I'm not sure how much faith I want to put into it.

    I did pay to get the alpha versions but haven't yet tried using it to see how well the new versions work.
    Latest Completed: CISSP

    Current goal: Dunno
  • ande0255ande0255 Banned Posts: 1,178
    I edited my previous post after a quick google of the new GNS3 feature set for switches, it looks like they cannot include a lot of the advanced features on switches, so will still need to make the investment for those :\
  • pitviperpitviper CCNP:Collaboration, CCNP:R&S, CCNA:S, CCNA:V, CCNA, CCENT Member Posts: 1,376 ■■■■■■■□□□
    But, the older 3560s/3750s aren't compatible with IOS 15 right?

    Yeah, only newer IOSs for the 3560v2/3750v2 switches which are still pretty pricey.
    CCNP:Collaboration, CCNP:R&S, CCNA:S, CCNA:V, CCNA, CCENT
  • bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
    But, the older 3560s/3750s aren't compatible with IOS 15 right?

    Feature Navigator suggests CAT3560 and 3560E can handle 15.0 at least. The 3560X does 15.2

    [UPDATE] I looked further because of conflicting information between what Pitviper and I posted and found this:

    Not all Catalyst 3750 and 3560 switches can run this release. These models are
    not
    supported in Cisco IOS Release 12.2(5icon_cool.gifSE1 and later: WS-C3560-24TS, WS-C3560-24PS. WS-C3560-48PS, WS-C3560-48TS, WS-C3750-24PS, WS-C3750-24TS, WS-C3750-48PS, WS-C3750-48TS, WS-3750G-24T, WS-C3750G-12S, WS-C3750G-24TS, WS-C3750G-16TD. For ongoing maintenance rebuilds for these models, use Cisco IOS Release 12.2(55)SE and later (SE1, SE2, and so on).
    Latest Completed: CISSP

    Current goal: Dunno
  • EdTheLadEdTheLad Member Posts: 2,111 ■■■■□□□□□□
    Why not use rack rental for additional features your hw doesn't support? There is so much material to cover, why not study everything you can in depth and make a list of the ones you cant. There isn't going to be many, by that time i'm sure the iol version used in the lab will be available to download. VTPv3 is something i'd be looking at 2 weeks before the exam, sorry but i couldn't help but laugh when i read you wanted to buy equipment to cover vtp lol.
    Networking, sometimes i love it, mostly i hate it.Its all about the $$$$
  • pitviperpitviper CCNP:Collaboration, CCNP:R&S, CCNA:S, CCNA:V, CCNA, CCENT Member Posts: 1,376 ■■■■■■■□□□
    3560v2 yes, not the cheap 3560s on eBay.

    I'm running 15.0 on my pair of 3560v2s.
    CCNP:Collaboration, CCNP:R&S, CCNA:S, CCNA:V, CCNA, CCENT
  • gorebrushgorebrush Member Posts: 2,743 ■■■■■■■□□□
    You'll need 15.3T. Buying physical devices for that is not on my agenda!

    Personally I will be sticking with my good old faithful 12.4T lab. I've only got a handful of devices that'll even run 15 code, never mind 15.3.

    I'll GNS/IOU what I can't do on 12, but for the time being I'm rolling with 12 for the sake of the technologies.

    BGP is BGP, and RIP is always going to be good ol' RIP.
  • Dieg0MDieg0M Member Posts: 861
    You still gotta be carefull, there are some differences in BGP behaviour in 15.X like VRF redistribution and multipathing.
    Follow my CCDE journey at www.routingnull0.com
  • networkjutsunetworkjutsu Senior Member Member Posts: 275 ■■■□□□□□□□
    bermovick wrote: »
    Feature Navigator suggests CAT3560 and 3560E can handle 15.0 at least. The 3560X does 15.2

    [UPDATE] I looked further because of conflicting information between what Pitviper and I posted and found this:

    Not all Catalyst 3750 and 3560 switches can run this release. These models are
    not
    supported in Cisco IOS Release 12.2(5icon_cool.gifSE1 and later: WS-C3560-24TS, WS-C3560-24PS. WS-C3560-48PS, WS-C3560-48TS, WS-C3750-24PS, WS-C3750-24TS, WS-C3750-48PS, WS-C3750-48TS, WS-3750G-24T, WS-C3750G-12S, WS-C3750G-24TS, WS-C3750G-16TD. For ongoing maintenance rebuilds for these models, use Cisco IOS Release 12.2(55)SE and later (SE1, SE2, and so on).

    I signed in and look if I can download IOS 15.x for my WS-3560-24TS/48TS and can't find it. Only available is 12.x. I know that the FN says otherwise.
  • networkjutsunetworkjutsu Senior Member Member Posts: 275 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Dieg0M wrote: »
    You still gotta be carefull, there are some differences in BGP behaviour in 15.X like VRF redistribution and multipathing.

    This is why I want the exact IOS version for the exam because some behaviors might change from one version to another.
  • bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I signed in and look if I can download IOS 15.x for my WS-3560-24TS/48TS and can't find it. Only available is 12.x. I know that the FN says otherwise.

    Indeed - notice the list is of those that do NOT support 15.0.

    Details:
    The first generation of 3560 and 3750 came with just 16 Mb of flash. Unfortunately, IOS versions 12.2(5icon_cool.gifSEx and 15.0(1)SEx requires a minimum of 24 Mb flash. So, unless your appliance has 24 Mb flash, the highest IOS you can load into them is 12.2(55)SEx.

    This makes me glad I did NOT win the 3560 I was bidding on earlier in the week.
    Latest Completed: CISSP

    Current goal: Dunno
  • bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
    EdTheLad wrote: »
    sorry but i couldn't help but laugh when i read you wanted to buy equipment to cover vtp lol.

    You forgot "and igmpv3, and private vlans, and everything else I haven't yet encountered that my devices don't support and I'll need", hence the thread.
    Latest Completed: CISSP

    Current goal: Dunno
  • fredrikjjfredrikjj Member Posts: 879
    The virtual appliance version of IOS will be what you'll run to get IOS 15.3 cheaply. This isn't released yet I think, but you can use the CSR1000v to get a similar experience, but with IOS XE. However, the virtual IOS is said to only require 0.5 GB of RAM vs. CSR1000v's 3 (4?). The easiest way to run this virtual IOS appliance will probably be with the Cisco Modeling Lab (CML) application. Presumably, you'll also be able to use it as a VM in GNS3 like you are currently able to with IOS-XE and -XR. So basically, L3 is already solved as long as you have decent workstation.
    The lab itself uses 3560X models.

    No, the lab is supposed to be an entirely virtual environment. However, 3560X might be the hardware platform you need to get an equivalent feature set for lab purposes today. A 3560X is expensive and unless you have spares at work or something, you are not going to use those.

    Because the lab is virtual, certain hardware dependent features have been removed from the lab. This tells me that it's entirely possible that something equivalent to what's used in the lab will either leak or be legitimately released by Cisco. It's already possible to do a lot with IOU, but when the right image is released it'll reach a tipping point where real switches no longer matter.
  • networkjutsunetworkjutsu Senior Member Member Posts: 275 ■■■□□□□□□□
    bermovick wrote: »
    Indeed - notice the list is of those that do NOT support 15.0.

    Ooops, missed the "not" part. My bad.
  • gorebrushgorebrush Member Posts: 2,743 ■■■■■■■□□□
    Well I agree above - but for some things, virtual labs make things hard to really practice. I'll switch to virtual when the time comes but I'm not sure there will be a massive learning curve for new behaviours. I mean once the core concepts are down - one should be able to learn the new ways.

    I'm not too concerned at this stage at least.
  • bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
    fredrikjj wrote: »
    The virtual appliance version of IOS will be what you'll run to get IOS 15.3 cheaply. This isn't released yet I think, but you can use the CSR1000v to get a similar experience, but with IOS XE. However, the virtual IOS is said to only require 0.5 GB of RAM vs. CSR1000v's 3 (4?). The easiest way to run this virtual IOS appliance will probably be with the Cisco Modeling Lab (CML) application. Presumably, you'll also be able to use it as a VM in GNS3 like you are currently able to with IOS-XE and -XR. So basically, L3 is already solved as long as you have decent workstation.

    No, the lab is supposed to be an entirely virtual environment. However, 3560X might be the hardware platform you need to get an equivalent feature set for lab purposes today. A 3560X is expensive and unless you have spares at work or something, you are not going to use those.

    Because the lab is virtual, certain hardware dependent features have been removed from the lab. This tells me that it's entirely possible that something equivalent to what's used in the lab will either leak or be legitimately released by Cisco. It's already possible to do a lot with IOU, but when the right image is released it'll reach a tipping point where real switches no longer matter.

    I'd love to be able to handle everything virtually, but I'm just not too sure at this point how much I can trust the existing virtual environments.

    UPDATE:
    I hadn't done much research on VIRL that had been mentioned above, and this thread sounds quite interesting. Apparently one of the posters is actually working on it and gives useful information:

    https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/65502
    Latest Completed: CISSP

    Current goal: Dunno
  • bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I've been doing additional research off and on, trying to find if there's any cheap hardware that's "good enough" and I ran across the 3750 today.

    As far as I can tell, the "older" 3750's (non -E or -X) with only 16M flash are able to still do dot1q tunneling, vtp v3 and igmp v3. They won't be able to handle the 15.0 IOS, but it looks like the 12.2SE IOS's still support all those features.

    Anyone care to double-check my work? These look like they may be a nice option (barring a fully functional virtualized environment)
    Latest Completed: CISSP

    Current goal: Dunno
  • gorebrushgorebrush Member Posts: 2,743 ■■■■■■■□□□
    I didn't think dot1q tunnelling was required.............

    Again, IGMP v3 and VTP v3, I don't care about it enough to buy new devices...

    I think IOU/GNS/VIRL will probably be enough to be really honest
  • bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
    Crap; you may be right. I could have sworn I saw Q in Q listed in the v5 list, but now I don't see it.

    Agree - I've looked into vtp v3 and there didn't look to be that much to it. I haven't touched igmpv3 yet to have an opinion there.
    Latest Completed: CISSP

    Current goal: Dunno
  • gorebrushgorebrush Member Posts: 2,743 ■■■■■■■□□□
    Well isn't IGMP v3 only for Source Specific Multicast? I would have thought this was well deployed on 12.4T never mind 15?
  • networkjutsunetworkjutsu Senior Member Member Posts: 275 ■■■□□□□□□□
    According to here, VTPv3 is supported with 3560.
  • bermovickbermovick Member Posts: 1,135 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I don't know whether to be glad nobody called me out on trying to find a switch that supported igmpv3, or mortified at what everyone thought about me doing that.

    FYI: even my 2610XM router supports igmpv3, running (I believe) a 12.2 image.
    Latest Completed: CISSP

    Current goal: Dunno
  • tldeestldees Member Posts: 9 ■□□□□□□□□□
    INE is saying they will use up to 20 routers plus 4 switches for their workbook(s). The cheapest router that uses the same IOS as the lab is the 1900 series routers, but 1841s should be able to do most of whats on the blueprint. Virtualization seems like the better/cheapest route to go, with a decent server/workstation with plenty of memory costing around $1000 on ebay. Switches will still need to be physical, though.

    The minimum system requirements to run a single CSR 1000v is:
    - 2.5GB of memory
    - 1 vCPU
    - 8GB of storage
  • gorebrushgorebrush Member Posts: 2,743 ■■■■■■■□□□
    I have some 1841's... 3. The rest are limited to 12.4T.

    I have two 3750's so can do 15 with those I suppose.

    I have two quad core Intel PC's both with 16Gb RAM so I can go the hybrid CSR route, and there's good old faithful GNS and IOU.

    I think I can do whatever I need with that.

    Remember, it is all well and good having all the workbooks and so on but there is nothing stopping you!

    Just get out there and learn it :)
  • keenonkeenon Member Posts: 1,922 ■■■■□□□□□□
    tldees wrote: »
    INE is saying they will use up to 20 routers plus 4 switches for their workbook(s).

    Where did you see this posted?
    Become the stainless steel sharp knife in a drawer full of rusty spoons
  • tldeestldees Member Posts: 9 ■□□□□□□□□□
    keenon wrote: »
    Where did you see this posted?

    Brian McGahan has been discussing it over at the IEOC forums in the Cisco Hardware section.

    http://ieoc.com/forums/t/29291.aspx?PageIndex=1
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