Anyone know of any jobs that Cyber / lawenforcement or have met anyone in this field

Clm

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devilbones

There are a bunch at Defense Cyber Crime Center located in Linthicum, MD.

the_Grinch

Do you have specific questions or just wondering if anyone works in that arena? I work in and with people who deal in cyber law enforcement.

Clm

the_Grinch wrote: »

Do you have specific questions or just wondering if anyone works in that arena? I work in and with people who deal in cyber law enforcement.

I eventually want to get into something that is a mix of my two favorite things Cyber and Lawenforcement. And i have been looking to find what would be the tilte and if that career exist outside of TV shows

BlackBeret

Lots of Forensics jobs, a lot of stuff I didn't enjoy looking at. I've seen cyber crimes units from small local departments on up, they exist at every level.

the_Grinch

Ok, I'm going to try to break it down as best I can. Agency size plays a huge role in whether there is a speciality assignment or a collateral duty. Thus agencies like ICE, FBI, USSS, etc will have agents specifically assigned as cyber agents and they'll deal solely in that realm. I work at the State level and we have Detectives and/or Investigators that are assigned as cyber/computer detectives/investigators. At the county level, in my state, they have people assigned just as we do at the State level. Now once you get to the municipal level it turns more into a collateral duty. Thus Detective Smith can spell HTML so any computer crimes that come in he gets on top of whatever his regular case load might be. Some municipal agencies are large enough where they may have dedicated people, but I would say majority treat it collaterally.

In my experience very few agencies are going to start you in the cyber realm without experience. Some want law enforcement and cyber, some will want the cyber and will send you thru the academy for the law enforcement aspect. Title wise I would search either Detective or Investigator then look for specific mentions of computer or cyber job duties. My agency picked me up due to my computer experience, but in my dealings with other agencies they were picking up people with the law enforcement background. Why you might ask? Four words: vested in the pension. Many agencies in my state learned a hard lesson when they hired IT grads out of college. They'd clear them on the background, send them thru the academy and then to literally tens of thousands of dollars worth of training to then have them leave for the private sector. The pay isn't great when you start so you might come in at around $50k, get all of your training and then be offered $100k+ in the private sector.

Once they were burned a few times they decided the best route was to grab someone who was already in law enforcement (vested in the pension so they'll stay) and send them for the training. Now they might not be as technical as they like, but they know they'll stay and with the training they'll be effective.

What should you do to get hired -
1. Complete your bachelors - I'd recommend you do something in Computer Forensics because typically for law enforcement that's what cyber really is. Plus you could probably get picked up as a civilian doing forensics in the lab and then move on to be an Investigator/Detective

2. Network - a lot of law enforcement is about who you know. Infragard (usually takes forever) and High Technology Crimes Investigation Association (much easier to get in) are two groups I would look at. Also, if your town has some sort of Reserve Deputy program I would join that.

3. Seriously consider your path - I've known people who have taken law enforcement jobs as a foot in the door thinking it would lead to a specific investigative assignment that they wanted and went on to be very disappointed. So while I would say apply for any law enforcement job you can, I'd caution you against it if you don't think you could do up to five years of non-cyber related crime.

4. Prepare for disappointment and seeing some terrible things - Haven't seen a lot of terrible stuff, but know people who have and it will truly affect you. A lot of the cyber work involves exploited children and that is stuff that can't be unseen. As far a disappointment goes, cyber crimes are extremely difficult to investigate and in turn prosecute. I've done a ton of work at times and ultimately it amounted to nothing. Very hard to devote literally weeks of your life to a case only to be told you don't have enough to go own.

5. Be ready for odd hours - based on your profile picture you were in the military so this you'll probably be use to. But be ready to be on call 24/7 365. I know at my agency if something cyber related happens I have to respond. Other positions it's not a big deal there is probably some backup, but in my case it's myself and my boss. They'll call us both in to respond and to coordinate with other agencies depending on the incident.

6. Be able to speak to people of varying backgrounds - In the course of my career I've had to brief people with the technical knowledge of a gnat on one end of the spectrum and people with Masters in Computer Science (or higher) at the other end. Knowing your audience will be crucial when trying to make a case. Plus if you are called to testify you'll need to be able to speak to a jury about how you conducted your investigation and being able to breakdown the technical concepts into something they understand is important. Also, you need to be able to speak to exactly have the technology involved in the crime actually works. Very easy to be tripped up based on not knowing the technology well enough.

7. Paperwork - hope you like it because you'll be doing a lot of it. If running and gunning is what your aim is don't look to cyber law enforcement. It's about 90% investigating and 10% run and gun (if you could call it that). Personally, I don't mind that, but some people like to be in the fray constantly and in cyber that is rare. Most cases take months (if not a year) to get through and ultimately the "excitement" isn't that exciting.

I like your comment about "outside of TV shows". Shows like NCIS and CSI:Cyber (now cancelled) really gave a terrible impression of us to the public. While I enjoy NCIS, the number of times they've quite literally broken the law to solve a crime is insane and they should be in prison.

It will take sometime, but once you get in it is definitely worth it. This field is only getting bigger because ultimately every crime now involves a computing device of some kind. In my Cyber Crimes class my law professor asked about everyone's level of technical ability. I'm the oldest in class by at least five years and I was shocked to hear that the technical skills of the class amounted to checking email. They're going to be lawyers and some are looking to be prosecutors so at some point they'll see a technical case. That's where the "talking to the level of your audience" will come in to play. Good luck and if you have any other questions feel free to ask. Hopefully this was at least insightful for you.

Clm

I am currently enrolled at WGU to finish my Bachelors I have not completely finalized what im going to do for my masters i was thinking WGU again to do there MSISA cause it has CHFI.

2 I will get on to the networking part.

3 I have no problem with having to work non-techincal lawenfrocement for a while it was my dream to be a cop as a child.

4 the seeing horrible things part of it i honestly dont know how to prepare for that but i believer prayer and counseling will help( my wife is a pastor)

5 yeah im used to rotating shift and being on call.

6 One of my good qualities is that i can speak to anyone to the point where you will understand what ever trying to say.

7 Paper work and long investigation i think i can do i used to assigned to the NSA so we would build reports and do "cool stuff" that would take a while to completey execute.

I was hoping that I could go state or federal cause my current salary is 85k+ and i dont want to take too much of a hit.

the_Grinch

I will say there is about a 95% chance you'll be taking a pay cut. At the Federal level with a Masters you can come in at a GL-7 maybe a GL-9 (thus $48k to $53k). That includes the locality pay for Denver. Finally, depending on the position you might be eligible for either LEAP or AUO. LEAP is 25% of your base pay added to your salary automatically in lieu of overtime. AUO is up to 25% of your base pay, but you would be required to work 50 hours a week in order to get it. If you work less than they cut the percentage down based on the number of hours. Thus you're looking at probably 60k per year to start in Federal law enforcement. Don't know about the State level positions in your area, but in my state you are looking at $55k for a Detective with a bump to $60k to $65k after a year.

MickyDee

@the_grinch, since you are knowledgeable in this area; for somebody without an IT background who is looking into this career field, would it be wiser to get a Masters in Digital Forensics or a Masters ion Information Security and Assurance? I have the option to choose between these two majors and am struggling on which option would be the best choice. I'll be taking the Sec+ soon, for what it's worth. I thank you in advance for your time.

ortizf3

I would suggest the FBI special agent, they have a need for cyber skills. Finish your degree because you need to have a bachelor's to apply and with your CISSP and you would be golden. Plus you wouldn' take much of hit financially. You start at GS 10 which for Denver with locality pay is 58k plus you get 25% for LEAP pay (availability) that brings you to 72k. Plus most likely you won't be send back to Denver, so you can go to another location with higher locality pay which could bring your total pay up to the 80 range. Here is the link to their page https://www.fbijobs.gov/information-center/faqs/special-agent-faqs

the_Grinch

My advice would be to go for the Masters in Digital Forensics. Information Security and Assurance would be helpful, but most of the cases you work are going to revolve around forensics. Also, it is simple enough to take courses in information security and obtain certifications where with digital forensics there isn't as much out there. Also, I would specialize in Mobile Forensics if that is an option with the program you are looking into. Mobile Forensics experts are rare and lots of cases involve mobile devices so you'll be ahead of the curve.

MickyDee wrote: »

@the_grinch, since you are knowledgeable in this area; for somebody without an IT background who is looking into this career field, would it be wiser to get a Masters in Digital Forensics or a Masters ion Information Security and Assurance? I have the option to choose between these two majors and am struggling on which option would be the best choice. I'll be taking the Sec+ soon, for what it's worth. I thank you in advance for your time.