Do Companies pay entry lvl IT workers what we are worth?

This has been something I have been thinking about for a while.

Lets take me as an example.

I work in a 24x7 NOC in a data center. My duties include Monitoring the Network, working on customer requests for support, such as racking and cabling new equipment, making cables(568A,B,X-over)configuring devices, troubleshooting basic networking issues, server reboots, provisioning new circuits on the ONS, opening up servers and installing new cards such as HBA etc. In addition to this, we assist with out internal IT Stuff. Basically, a help desk/technician.

My employer starts this position at 31k a year. Now I know I only have 2 certs, entry level at that, and only two years experience, but my position does require a good deal of skill.

To me, this is low pay for the amount of skills required to fill my position. I have an acquaintance who has a job as an air conditioning tech, has about the same amount of experience in his field, and makes nearly 10k more a year.

Is it that employers feel they can pay whatever they like because there is always someone willing to take my place, maybe for less pay? Or, do I just work for a crap employer?

Or maybe im wrong and employers pay what our skills are worth? I know some other people with around the comparable experience earn around the same as me.

I originally decided to get into IT, besides liking the jobs, because it was supposed to be a well paying field, with a lot of demand. But after working in it for two years, I just dont see it.

So am I wrong and just whining?

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Plantwiz

dynamik wrote:

I'm pretty sure everyone here thinks those salaries are ridiculous. I don't see how one person's salary, in a completely different area, is related to yours. Do you think a janitor working at a large company has a right to demand more just because the CEO makes a ton? I don't. He deserves to get paid whatever is fair for his skills. What other people make is irrelevant. I'm not saying you don't deserve to get paid more, but that isn't a valid argument.

Agreed.

Basically, someone has the guts to put their butt on the line and like it or not, they can reap the benefits of that. When the **** hits the fan, guess who falls first? Some even end up in jail. I'll never begrudge someone for how much they earn. Some risk more then I ever will to get there, others do things I"d never do to get there, some just get damn lucky. Regardless, they don't owe me a penny more then I accept to work for when I negotiated my value before accepting the position.

You want to make more? Go start your own business, turn it into a foturne 500 company and pay yourself millions. IF we go to a position where we all need to earn the same....we've just lost every bit of 'freedom' we ever had. Go out and prove your worth. Read a book. Become more efficient. Show your company how you save them money if you don't have a position where you can make them money.

I too think the high salaries are a bit over-the-top, but there are very few people drawing that sort of money. Many are very generous with their money, others buy those expensive toys that keep others working....so, say what you want, but giving up the republic of the US where we have some capitalism to a completely socialist or communistic society is NOT what we should strive for. Some win, some lose, but we all have the same chance to make it to the top of the heap.

binari

dynamik wrote:

I'm pretty sure everyone here thinks those salaries are ridiculous. I don't see how one person's salary, in a completely different area, is related to yours. Do you think a janitor working at a large company has a right to demand more just because the CEO makes a ton? I don't. He deserves to get paid whatever is fair for his skills. What other people make is irrelevant. I'm not saying you don't deserve to get paid more, but that isn't a valid argument.

oh but I believe it is a valid argument. here we have people getting paid millions a year, in some instances millions a month, but here you guys are telling me as someone who busts my butt and performs an essential function to the company should not get paid enough to be able to afford to pay for a mortgage on a small house and a car? Im not asking to get paid 90k a year, but why is it wrong to wish to make 50% of that? Surely the company can afford it, when they're charging over 100K a month to our clients for colocation space, and we have over 300K of datacenter space to sell.

Just because I am light on experience doesn't mean I do not know what I am doing. Sure I could go somewhere else, and I have had other interviews and offers, but all the salaries seems to be in the same range.

binari

Plantwiz wrote:

dynamik wrote:

I'm pretty sure everyone here thinks those salaries are ridiculous. I don't see how one person's salary, in a completely different area, is related to yours. Do you think a janitor working at a large company has a right to demand more just because the CEO makes a ton? I don't. He deserves to get paid whatever is fair for his skills. What other people make is irrelevant. I'm not saying you don't deserve to get paid more, but that isn't a valid argument.

Agreed.

Basically, someone has the guts to put their butt on the line and like it or not, they can reap the benefits of that. When the **** hits the fan, guess who falls first? Some even end up in jail. I'll never begrudge someone for how much they earn. Some risk more then I ever will to get there, others do things I"d never do to get there, some just get damn lucky. Regardless, they don't owe me a penny more then I accept to work for when I negotiated my value before accepting the position.

You want to make more? Go start your own business, turn it into a foturne 500 company and pay yourself millions. IF we go to a position where we all need to earn the same....we've just lost every bit of 'freedom' we ever had. Go out and prove your worth. Read a book. Become more efficient. Show your company how you save them money if you don't have a position where you can make them money.

I too think the high salaries are a bit over-the-top, but there are very few people drawing that sort of money. Many are very generous with their money, others buy those expensive toys that keep others working....so, say what you want, but giving up the republic of the US where we have some capitalism to a completely socialist or communistic society is NOT what we should strive for. Some win, some lose, but we all have the same chance to make it to the top of the heap.

spoken like a true capitalist. Adam Smith to the rescue.

Of course your free to believe whatever you like but I believe the majority of workers in the US do not believe tehy get paid what they are worth.

You said some go to jail? You meant the ones who broke the LAW? like the Enron guys, or Dennis Kozlowski, or that dude from gizmado (I think that was the name). You dont believe they should go to jail?

And better yet, you think they all started those corporations themselves? In most cases they are hired employees, just like everyone else, except they were hired by the board and sign a contract. And the ones who did start the company, you think they get there by themselves?

Why are you so against people getting paid better wages?

better yet, answer this question:

I have two certs, study and gaining the knowledge to take and pass the tests for those two certs required a lot of effort. I also spent four years in the US ARMY. Now my salary averages out to about $16 an hour. Now my employer also has a security staff, they get paid $14 an hour. Tell me why The IT staff should only get paid $2 more an hour then the security staff. Surely we do more for the company, and I know I make a hell of a lot more money from the company that the security guard (he earns no revenue for the company). So lower level IT staff is worth only $2 more an hour, or $80 a week more then security?

dynamik

binari wrote:

spoken like a true capitalist.

Oh no, you found us out! Do you really think you'd be better off in a communist country? You can always move...

binari wrote:

Why are you so against people getting paid better wages?

I'm really not trying to be rude. Your initial post was fine and made valid points and asked valid questions. I guess my response is: Why are you so determined to whine on a forum instead of simply improving your skills? You're not making the money you want because you haven't done a lot to differentiate yourself from others and obtain high-level skills. I don't mean this as an insult, but there's probably a lot of people that can do the job you're currently doing. That is why you're not getting paid more.

Look, you are going to get absolutely no pity from me. My credentials and experience absolutely obliterate yours, and I'm barely making more than you. I've put my time in, gained experience, and picked up some certs along the way. I just spent 4.5 hours doing a small AD install for a small business after my regular job. I snagged $500 and already have more jobs like that lined up, and it's probably going to turn into a full-time position where I make 1.5-2x what I currently do. Suck it up, stick with it, and continue to learn.

binari wrote:

better yet, answer this question:

I have tow certs, study and gaining the knowledge to take and pass the tests for those two certs required a lot of effort. I also spent four years in the US ARMY. Now my salary averages out to about $16 an hour. Now my employer also has a security staff, they get paid $14 an hour. Tell me why The IT staff should only get paid $2 more an hour then the security staff. Surely we do more for the company, and I know I make a hell of a lot more money from the company that the security guard (he earns no revenue for the company). So IT staff is worth only $2 more an hour?

Are you at risk of being assaulted and/or shot?

binari

dynamik wrote:

binari wrote:

spoken like a true capitalist.

Oh no, you found us out! Do you really think you'd be better off in a communist country? You can always move...

binari wrote:

Why are you so against people getting paid better wages?

I'm really not trying to be rude. Your initial post was fine and made valid points and asked valid questions. I guess my response is: Why are you so determined to whine on a forum instead of simply improving your skills? You're not making the money you want because you haven't done a lot to differentiate yourself from others and obtain high-level skills. I don't mean this as an insult, but there's probably a lot of people that can do the job you're currently doing. That is why you're not getting paid more.

Look, you are going to get absolutely no pity from me. My credentials and experience absolutely obliterate yours, and I'm barely making more than you. I've put my time in, gained experience, and picked up some certs along the way. I just spent 4.5 hours doing a small AD install for a small business after my regular job. I snagged $500 and already have more jobs like that lined up, and it's probably going to turn into a full-time position where I make 1.5-2x what I currently do. Suck it up, stick with it, and continue to learn.

binari wrote:

better yet, answer this question:

I have tow certs, study and gaining the knowledge to take and pass the tests for those two certs required a lot of effort. I also spent four years in the US ARMY. Now my salary averages out to about $16 an hour. Now my employer also has a security staff, they get paid $14 an hour. Tell me why The IT staff should only get paid $2 more an hour then the security staff. Surely we do more for the company, and I know I make a hell of a lot more money from the company that the security guard (he earns no revenue for the company). So IT staff is worth only $2 more an hour?

Are you at risk of being assaulted and/or shot?

Look, you are going to get absolutely no pity from me. My credentials and experience absolutely obliterate yours, and I'm barely making more than you.

Well then, you should definetely be making more.

Are you at risk of being assaulted and/or shot?

they are not either. They check badges and are basically window dressing for clients, so they can feel that their equipment is more secure.

Plantwiz

binari wrote:

spoken like a true capitalist. Adam Smith to the rescue.

....as Dynamik stated...you can move.

DO you honestly believe the countries where socialism and communism rule their people are better off? You comment is spoken like a true person who thinks the gov't owes you something because you exist.

Of course your free to believe whatever you like but I believe the majority of workers in the US do not believe tehy get paid what they are worth.

As are you too free to think/believe whatever you like. I do not think you will find the majority of people in the US feel they are not paid what they are worth. And if you paid attention to your high school economics class (and maybe one in college)...what happens when everyone's wages go up??

You said some go to jail? You meant the ones who broke the LAW? like the Enron guys, or Dennis Kozlowski, or that dude from gizmado (I think that was the name). You dont believe they should go to jail?

No. Break the law, go to jail. I stated 'some go to jail...meaning that just because some (and a very small percentage of the people in the US) make a lot of money....some it catches up with due to their dishonest ways of making that money. Just covering the bases that some earn it the right way, some do not, they are both equally entitiled to try though and those who do it the wrong way, seem to always get caught....so no biggie to me if they make it like that, eventually everything they have will be gone.

And better yet, you think they all started those corporations themselves? In most cases they are hired employees, just like everyone else, except they were hired by the board and sign a contract. And the ones who did start the company, you think they get there by themselves?

Exactly. So what is holding you back from bettering yourself, your contacts, your ability to be 1 of those people? Only you.

Why are you so against people getting paid better wages?

Again, think back to basic Economics. If we're all paid the same, then no one wins. If you earn it, and your company can afford it, great for you to be paid more. The problem I'm sick of hearing is whinning people complaining that "the company' owes them. The company doesn't owe it's employees anything more then the employee agrees to work for. No one is stopping you from re-negotiating your value every few years. I'm saying make yourself more valueable by being more efficient, adding value to your knowledge, or simply making them more profitable.

If you really want freedom....Go to work for yourself!

better yet, answer this question:

I have two certs, study and gaining the knowledge to take and pass the tests for those two certs required a lot of effort. I also spent four years in the US ARMY. Now my salary averages out to about $16 an hour. Now my employer also has a security staff, they get paid $14 an hour. Tell me why The IT staff should only get paid $2 more an hour then the security staff. Surely we do more for the company, and I know I make a hell of a lot more money from the company that the security guard (he earns no revenue for the company). So lower level IT staff is worth only $2 more an hour, or $80 a week more then security?

First, thank you for serving your country.

Second What are you bitching about? You are making more then your coworkers?? And it is likely there are several hundred people living in your city (or nearby) who can do as good of a job or better for the same pay.....hence that's what the market is paying. IT IS FLOODED with talent. Therefore if you desire to remain in IT, you need to specialize and stay ahead. And really, two certifications?? There are many here with a bunch more. It's not the cert that make a person valuable. Its their attitude and ability to work with others that will win over employers almost every time.

Good luck out there!

dynamik

binari wrote:

Look, you are going to get absolutely no pity from me. My credentials and experience absolutely obliterate yours, and I'm barely making more than you.

Well then, you should definetely be making more.

I definitely should be. I was making the simple point that I felt like I was in the same boat as you, so I did something about it, and now it's paying off. You clearly just want to cry about this and not actually have a discussion, so I'm done. I hope you get over this, and I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

Slowhand

binari wrote:

Now I am by no means a socialist, or communist or any such nonsense, but I believe employees should be compensated fairly for what their skills are worth to the company.

I hate to break this to you, but what you described there is the very essence of capitalism. If you have the skills, you get paid. If you don't get paid, the employer loses you to someone else. Worth for worth, value for value. And, as has already been pointed out, your certs show that you're still entry-level. If you want more money, go get it. You need to figure out what to do, in this case it's gaining more experience and better credentials, and you will be making more. This is definitely not a field to complain about cut-throat competition and "unfair" wages, this is one of the most competitive fields around. You either be the best, or you get delegated to the bottom of the barrel with lousy pay.

As harsh as it may sound, this is the reality of IT: there will always be someone younger, more eager, willing to work for less money out there to take your job if you don't want to do it. . . and in many cases, even if you do. There will always be someone who knows more that can steal an opportunity at a job you want. There will always be (a good number, unfortunately,) of individuals out there that follow the Dilbert rule of management, "put the incompetents in middle-management, where they can't cause destruction", and there will always be CEOs that make hand over fist more money than you. There's only one of two things that can happen, you'll either be the shark or the minnow, otherwise it's time to find a new swimming-hole.

snadam

Slowhand wrote:

binari wrote:

Now I am by no means a socialist, or communist or any such nonsense, but I believe employees should be compensated fairly for what their skills are worth to the company.

I hate to break this to you, but what you described there is the very essence of capitalism. If you have the skills, you get paid. If you don't get paid, the employer loses you to someone else. Worth for worth, value for value. And, as has already been pointed out, your certs show that you're still entry-level. If you want more money, go get it. You need to figure out what to do, in this case it's gaining more experience and better credentials, and you will be making more. This is definitely not a field to complain about cut-throat competition and "unfair" wages, this is one of the most competitive fields around. You either be the best, or you get delegated to the bottom of the barrel with lousy pay.

As harsh as it may sound, this is the reality of IT: there will always be someone younger, more eager, willing to work for less money out there to take your job if you don't want to do it. . . and in many cases, even if you do. There will always be someone who knows more that can steal an opportunity at a job you want. There will always be (a good number, unfortunately,) of individuals out there that follow the Dilbert rule of management, "put the incompetents in middle-management, where they can't cause destruction", and there will always be CEOs that make hand over fist more money than you. There's only one of two things that can happen, you'll either be the shark or the minnow, otherwise it's time to find a new swimming-hole.

thank you slowhand, im glad someone caught that!

I want to mention that you have served our country proud, so thank you for that.

HOWEVER,

binari, you may have your gripes at capitalism, or CEO's making ungodly amounts of money. However, I grew up in a family where my father has tailored his own small business from our office/living room at home; to a multi-site corporation that would NET $20mil+/year. He EARNED EVERY RED CENT that came his way. So while you complain they do nothing, they sacrificed time, effort, MONEY; but most importantly their family to have a successful business in this country. I agree with most people here; you cant compare other industries to this one; and while I know your area has a high cost of living, its good starting pay. If you don't think so, then look for another job. You can also see to get promoted in your company. The great thing about this country is, in general, that life is what YOU make it. And I really think one's career is good reflection of that.

best of luck either way, sir!

undomiel

A company pays what it believes is the value for those skills. Maybe a company can pay more or maybe not. Your job is to prove to them you are worth what you think you are worth. That is not their job. Go make an argument for why you should be paid more. If they don't believe it then go somewhere else. Find out what other people with your same skill sets in the same area are making. Perhaps you're making top of the market. It doesn't matter what the security guards are making. That is the value that the company places on their skills. There is nothing wrong with other people making money. If it bruises your ego, well, tough. Suck it up and move on. Or continue to cry about it. That's an option as well. The world doesn't owe you anything.

I am not getting paid what I am worth at my current job anymore. That is why I will be moving on soon. But it was what I was worth when I came in. I developed the skills worth more afterwords. So now the onus is on me to either make an argument to management for why I should be paid more, or to move on where I will get paid what I am worth. I know the state of the finances here. They can't afford to pay me more. Heck, my job is in danger of being axed every day because they can barely afford me currently. That's ok though, it was accepted when I signed the contract. Now I just have to find somewhere else.

blargoe

Employees are in it to provide sustenance for their households and to have enough left over to spend on whatever it is in life the makes them happy. Companies are in it to bring as much value to the company shareholders as they can. Two entirely conflicting interests.

They should not have to pay more than they have to for the talents they need. It is not in their best interest. You should not accept work for less than what you are worth. It is not in your best interest.

However, inevitably the balance shifts in favor or one side or the other depending on market conditions. Right now there is a large pool of entry level talent to pick from. In the late 90's it was the opposite.

In the end, neither side owes the other anything other than what they agree to in the terms of employment.

binari

Lets be honest with ourselves here.

Who really has the power here, employer or employee?

And if the going rate for someone with two certs, and a lot of knowledge is crap, then why get these certs? Lets just tell it like it is, CCENT, and COMPTIA network + are worthless in the eyes of employers. Hecj even you guys feel that someone with those certs is only worth $2 more an hour than a security guard, as was proven in earlier posts.

Sure I do not have a CCNA, but im working on it. But I do run cross connects, I do make cables (568 A &B), I do put connectors on cables (BNC connector on RG 58 cables for DS3's) I do provision and turn up new circuits on the our cisco ONS sonet boxes, I do handle trouble issues for some of the biggest companies in the world, which I am bound by NDA not to mention. I do wire up DSX-1 panels and configure MUX's. I do test fiber optics for DB loss using a OTDR.

But all that and more is only worth $2 more an hour than a security guard to you guys huh?

Lets tell everyone here who is aspiring to be an IT person or network engineer that it is ok for companies to take advantage of your labor and skills for the first few years. Lets tell them they can learn all they want because they will not be making crap.

And we always hear about a shortage of workers in this area, well that must be a lie, because according to you guys, the market is flooded.

So I'll guess the bottom line is that if your looking to get into this field, you had better be 20 years old and still live with mom, because that is the only way you will be able to afford it.

Mishra

You're not really listening to a single word anyone is saying...

undomiel

Again, your ego is getting in the way. Who cares what the security guard makes?

snadam

binari wrote:

Lets be honest with ourselves here.

Who really has the power here, employer or employee?

And if the going rate for someone with two certs, and a lot of knowledge is crap, then why get these certs? Lets just tell it like it is, CCENT, and COMPTIA network + are worthless in the eyes of employers. Hecj even you guys feel that someone with those certs is only worth $2 more an hour than a security guard, as was proven in earlier posts.

Sure I do not have a CCNA, but im working on it. But I do run cross connects, I do make cables (568 A &B), I do put connectors on cables (BNC connector on RG 58 cables for DS3's) I do provision and turn up new circuits on the our cisco ONS sonet boxes, I do handle trouble issues for some of the biggest companies in the world, which I am bound by NDA not to mention. I do wire up DSX-1 panels and configure MUX's. I do test fiber optics for DB loss using a OTDR.

But all that and more is only worth $2 more an hour than a security guard to you guys huh?

Lets tell everyone here who is aspiring to be an IT person or network engineer that it is ok for companies to take advantage of your labor and skills for the first few years. Lets tell them they can learn all they want because they will not be making crap.

And we always hear about a shortage of workers in this area, well that must be a lie, because according to you guys, the market is flooded.

So I'll guess the bottom line is that if your looking to get into this field, you had better be 20 years old and still live with mom, because that is the only way you will be able to afford it.

Are you forced to work at your current employer? You just spat out really good resume material. I bet if you collected all that on a CV, another employer might pick you up for more money. I just took a 15% paycut and I now double as a data-entry b***h, and my in-office hours just increased by an extra 12 hours a week; which actually consumes most of my time now. I'm working on doing something about it. Might I suggest the same to you?

networker050184

binari wrote:

Lets be honest with ourselves here.

Who really has the power here, employer or employee?

And if the going rate for someone with two certs, and a lot of knowledge is crap, then why get these certs? Lets just tell it like it is, CCENT, and COMPTIA network + are worthless in the eyes of employers. Hecj even you guys feel that someone with those certs is only worth $2 more an hour than a security guard, as was proven in earlier posts.

Sure I do not have a CCNA, but im working on it. But I do run cross connects, I do make cables (568 A &B), I do put connectors on cables (BNC connector on RG 58 cables for DS3's) I do provision and turn up new circuits on the our cisco ONS sonet boxes, I do handle trouble issues for some of the biggest companies in the world, which I am bound by NDA not to mention. I do wire up DSX-1 panels and configure MUX's. I do test fiber optics for DB loss using a OTDR.

But all that and more is only worth $2 more an hour than a security guard to you guys huh?

Lets tell everyone here who is aspiring to be an IT person or network engineer that it is ok for companies to take advantage of your labor and skills for the first few years. Lets tell them they can learn all they want because they will not be making crap.

And we always hear about a shortage of workers in this area, well that must be a lie, because according to you guys, the market is flooded.

So I'll guess the bottom line is that if your looking to get into this field, you had better be 20 years old and still live with mom, because that is the only way you will be able to afford it.

Are you and Crunchyhippo in cahoots??

Both of you seem to expect WAY to much money for your skill level.

BeaverC32

Want any cheese with that whine?

If you put as much effort into studying as you do in complaining, you might be making more $$$.

jbrown414

I know I'm way under paid for what I know and do. I don't sit around and complain about it. I study my butt off because I know that there is something better and I know it's not going to just be handed to me.

You should be grateful you even have a job.

dynamik

I didn't want to get involved with this any more, but I wanted to point out (in case people who are in similar situations are following this thread) that while a security guard might make something close to you, that's probably close to the maximum for him. He'll be making that, or maybe slightly more, 2-3 years from now. You could potentially double (or triple, etc.) your pay in that amount of time. Less desirable jobs can start relatively high, but there's not often room for growth.

binari

jbrown414 wrote:

I know I'm way under paid for what I know and do. I don't sit around and complain about it. I study my butt off because I know that there is something better and I know it's not going to just be handed to me.

You should be grateful you even have a job.

Look, this is not about me. This is about people in my position, they have a little experience under their belt, a few certs and whom work hard and do good work. We should be getting paid more. End of story.

I have no idea why EVERYONE here is against people getting paid more, unless your all named Rockefeller or something.

People in my position do a lot of work. This is not 1992. 32K a year doesn't get you far. Its actually pretty pathetic that you all defend someone getting paid 32k a year in this industry. The prices of living keeps going up, the prices business and consumer customers pay for goods and services keeps going up, but hey, its okay to shaft those in the industry who are most vulnerable, the newer people. The people who are most vulnerable to getting replaced, whose voices are most easily silenced.

We put in an honest days work, contribute a lot to the success of the compan, all I am saying is that we should get paid honestly.

The end.

networker050184

I wish I lived in the fantasy world you describe where entry level makes the big bucks. If that were the case I'd be up to over a trillion dollars a week by now with all the work I've put in......

HeroPsycho

binari wrote:

Look, this is not about me. This is about people in my position, they have a little experience under their belt, a few certs and whom work hard and do good work. We should be getting paid more. End of story.

I have no idea why EVERYONE here is against people getting paid more, unless your all named Rockefeller or something.

People in my position do a lot of work. This is not 1992. 32K a year doesn't get you far. Its actually pretty pathetic that you all defend someone getting paid 32k a year in this industry. The prices of living keeps going up, the prices business and consumer customers pay for goods and services keeps going up, but hey, its okay to shaft those in the industry who are most vulnerable, the newer people. The people who are most vulnerable to getting replaced, whose voices are most easily silenced.

We put in an honest days work, contribute a lot to the success of the compan, all I am saying is that we should get paid honestly.

The end.

Do you think janitors work any less hard than you do?

It's not about how hard you work. It's about the value you bring with your work, and the relative supply and demand for your work.

If you want to make the argument that in general the rich are too rich and the poor are too poor, I'm sympathetic to that, and I agree with it, but that's across the board in our society (US anyway). That's a systemic economic problem, and it's not just entry level IT stuff.

But you're complaining about the economic reality for your skillset in IT that are the results of market forces. No one ever said the market was fair. Compare your position to a janitor's position making the same money - at least you've got a career path and are likely to move up. How does a janitor move up? Not a lot of growth potential.

Look, you could "work hard" and go to each of 200 machines and set a registry key, or I could not work hard, and set up a Group Policy Object and get the same job done. Hard work is irrelevant. What matters is I get paid the big bucks because I know how to get more done in less time, and I have proven experience, education, and certs to back it up. There are plenty of guys I know who just do storage (SAN's, NAS's, etc.), they make more than me, and their jobs are easier. I don't complain; instead, I figure out how to get into storage.

snadam

binari wrote:

I have no idea why EVERYONE here is against people getting paid more, unless your all named Rockefeller or something.

No, EVERYONE here doesn't like people getting SOMETHING for NOTHING. Good paying jobs are NOT given, they're earned. You get your feet wet, tough it out, and then move up. Most/all people here are not CEO's nor do they have Executive status in any company, so I don't know where you get saying we are all "IT Baron's"

gojericho0

binari, you are spinning your wheels. instead of being bitter consider it a lesson learned. what would you different when looking for a first job? Did you try to negotiate? What tactics did you use to find a job? Is there anything you can do to improve yourself both personally and technically so that when you leave the interview room the hiring manager(s) realize they must have this guy on their team and are willing to pay them the higher end of the pay scale. Treat it like a game and strategically plan where you are now and where you want to be. Now how are you going to make it happen?

astorrs

HeroPsycho wrote:

...There are plenty of guys I know who just do storage (SAN's, NAS's, etc.), they make more than me, and their jobs are easier. I don't complain; instead, I figure out how to get into storage.

blargoe

binari wrote:

I have no idea why EVERYONE here is against people getting paid more, unless your all named Rockefeller or something.

I don't think anyone here wouldn't like to be paid more money, the rest of us didn't drink the everyone owes me something koolaid that you apparently drank. Though, I'm sure you're going to leave here assuming that we're all a bunch of Bush loving republican cronies that want to keep you down.

Slowhand

binari wrote:

Sure I do not have a CCNA, but im working on it. But I do run cross connects, I do make cables (568 A &B), I do put connectors on cables (BNC connector on RG 58 cables for DS3's) I do provision and turn up new circuits on the our cisco ONS sonet boxes, I do handle trouble issues for some of the biggest companies in the world, which I am bound by NDA not to mention. I do wire up DSX-1 panels and configure MUX's. I do test fiber optics for DB loss using a OTDR.

But all that and more is only worth $2 more an hour than a security guard to you guys huh?

Nope, but it's only worth $2 more per hour to your employer, which is something we can't do anything about for you. The only one who can change that situation is you, either climb the current ladder or find a new job. Either way, you'll still need to keep learning and putting some more experience and certs behind your efforts.

binari wrote:

Look, this is not about me. This is about people in my position, they have a little experience under their belt, a few certs and whom work hard and do good work. We should be getting paid more. End of story.

The question is why? Because you've earned it and you're being treated unfairly, or simply because you want it? If you've earned it, go raise hell and ask for more money, otherwise go find another job. These are the same options open to anyone in your position, everyone on this board has gone, or is going, through it.

binari wrote:

I have no idea why EVERYONE here is against people getting paid more, unless your all named Rockefeller or something.

I am against people making more money: when they haven't earned it and aren't willing to. I'm pretty sure that those same crooked, over-paid CEOs that you're mentioning didn't work as hard as their honest counterparts. If you're willing to work, do what it takes to succeed honestly, then you'll make more. Trouble is, you haven't heard a word anyone's said, and have been focued entirely on trying to convince us of a superflous point.

binari wrote:

People in my position do a lot of work. This is not 1992. 32K a year doesn't get you far. Its actually pretty pathetic that you all defend someone getting paid 32k a year in this industry. The prices of living keeps going up, the prices business and consumer customers pay for goods and services keeps going up, but hey, its okay to shaft those in the industry who are most vulnerable, the newer people. The people who are most vulnerable to getting replaced, whose voices are most easily silenced.

What that means is simple: you think you're working hard, but the truth is that you're not working nearly hard enough. Either that, or you're letting your company take advantage of you. As I said in an earlier post, on the honest end of the spectrum, there's always going to be someone younger and hungrier who wants your job. There'll always be a dynamik, someone with more certs, experience, and the advantage of youth over most. Then, tomorrow, next week, next month, or next year, someone will come and blow him out of the water if he doesn't keep learning and expanding. And even if he does continue to grow his knowledge, he'll lose the advantage of age eventually, and will gain more responsibilities than he has time. When that time comes, he'll have to make up for the energy and open doors he has now by innovating and growing by sheer will and the power of his mind and experience. That's the way it is.

On the dishonest end, there will always be companies that will try to undercut your worth, **** you out of your benefits, or hand the lousiest jobs to the newbies. You have two choices here: either realize that there are no lousy jobs, only lousy workers that don't want to do them. Or, you can go find someone who pays you what you're worth and respects your skills and experience. Whatever you do, you'll have to prove yourself, complaining about what you wish could be won't get you much more than you have now.

binari wrote:

We put in an honest days work, contribute a lot to the success of the compan, all I am saying is that we should get paid honestly.

Yes, we should. Based on the responses you've read in this thread, what are you going to do about it?

HeroPsycho

binari,

We're not trying to trounce you or anything.

Let me ask you this...

Is complaining on here about it going to help you at all? What good will possibly come out of it?

Dude, I've mentioned my current employer's treatment of me recently a few times on this forum. Last year, I upgraded my MCSE to MCSE: Messaging, got MCSA 2000/2003: Security, MCTS in ISA 2006, got my VCP to allow my employer to become a VAC, did everything asked of me, and more.

What did my employer do? Cut health insurance benefits and didn't even give me a cost of living raise.

Review that one more time: I did all that, and I'm making in real dollars less due to inflation and cuts in health insurance coverage than a year ago.

I could b1tch about it with no results other than maybe find someone with a few minutes of free time to offer sympathy for a quick moment, or I could do something about it.

Why get depressed when you can get even?

Job interviews are being scheduled as we speak.

sliptmickey

My first entry level job, I made 18K a year, and in 8 years only made it up to 38K a year. About 6K more than what you make now....and that's after 8 years. I wasn't happy with my situation, or my pay, so I took my experience, looked for another job and am now pulling in over 70K a year. Did I mention that I just got my very first cert ever just a month ago? Experience says alot, and sometimes certs don't mean crap. If you're not happy with your pay, bust your @ss, learn as much as you can and when you feel you've outgrown your usefullness to your position, either find another job, or try to get picked up for a more senior position that pays more. Companies will always pay as low as they can if the opportunity arises. That's business my friend.

jarjar

I remember trying to bust into the IT field. I tried everything to get experience. Once in, I made $8.50 an hour and no bennies for help desk. It kills me to see people where I work have help desk jobs and couldn't replace the hard drive on their home computer while making $40k a year. But stick with it. 5 years down the road you'll be making more and moving forward while the are still help desk. Get into it, and stick with it.