Is IT That bad ? Whats up with people at dice ?

I was at the dice fourm and everyone is telling one another to stay away from IT.

Is the IT field that bad ? No Jobs ?Hard to Find ? etc... Not worth it ?

I am just starting off and I been reading some scary stories.

Ben

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tpatt100

The Dice forums are horrible. I made the mistake to go in there once and its full of trolls flaming each other. I think you have disgruntled IT people using it to relieve stress.

Now a days if one person has a bad experience they go out of their way to make sure everybody else thinks the same way they do.

dynamik

Dice has always been like that. Don't let it get you down.

vCole

dynamik wrote: »

Dice has always been like that. Don't let it get you down.

QFT - hence why I never go on those forums.

RobertKaucher

benchod wrote: »

I was at the dice fourm and everyone is telling one another to stay away from IT.

Is the IT field that bad ? No Jobs ?Hard to Find ? etc... Not worth it ?

I am just starting off and I been reading some scary stories.

Ben

Ben, considering your career-path plan, I would not worry about this. Like others said, it's a lot of bitching and complaining you are seeing. If you follow your plan, you will be well set to find a good position. You may not break into a senior dba/bi spot making 100k right away, but you'll get there.

veritas_libertas

benchod wrote: »

I was at the dice fourm and everyone is telling one another to stay away from IT.

Is the IT field that bad ? No Jobs ?Hard to Find ? etc... Not worth it ?

I am just starting off and I been reading some scary stories.

Ben

No, but some of the people in IT are that bad.

Kujo

The Dice forums are depressing, but there is a lot of truth on those boards. I share a lot of the frustration spewed over there. I'm currently employed, but I'm looking for a better opportunity. If I was choosing a career today, it wouldn't be IT. Off-shoring, and declining salaries have really hurt the industry.

Slashdot.org has a really enlightening post about people in IT switching careers. A good read.
http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/10/27/2127259/Moving-Away-From-the-IT-Field

Here's a similar very good post over at the Spiceworks community forums.
http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/80580

Silentsoul

How many of you have heard the saying "Find something you love to do and you'll never work a day in your life"
It is that, if you are just doing it for a job it is not for you. Late nights, long hours, weekends. You really have to enjoy this stuff to be good at it. Sure you can just do 'a job' but if you don't have a passion for it you will burn out.

Now that is not to say after a while doing it 8 + hours a day, you will still enjoy going home and tinkering, lately I pretty much get my fill of tech at work and when i get home i just want to 'zone out'
but its been a rough couple of months lately.

manny355

I agree with alot of the posts here which state that as long as you have a game plan of where you want to be in IT and put in work to get there...then you will be fine.

What i've found at a few different places is that alot of people in IT who have been in IT for years but haven't moved further along education-wise meaning no degree or certifications are finding that they are the ones being laid off first in favor of some of us younger guys who have some experience but also a degree and or certifications.

I also found that although we come in at a lower salary point initially as we gain experience...the salary quickly jumps not only due to experience but also because most employers recognize that we have a heck of alot more options...

I haven't myself been to those dice forums but just in talking with some of the old timers at a few of the places they i'ved worked over the years.

JoJoCal19

Kujo wrote: »

The Dice forums are depressing, but there is a lot of truth on those boards. I share a lot of the frustration spewed over there. I'm currently employed, but I'm looking for a better opportunity. If I was choosing a career today, it wouldn't be IT. Off-shoring, and declining salaries had really hurt the industry.

Slashdot.org has a really enlightening post about people in IT switching careers. A good read.
Slashdot Ask Slashdot Story | Moving Away From the IT Field?

Here's a similar very good post over at the Spiceworks community forums.
Is Your IT Career Beginning to Feel Like a Never-Ending Rat Race? Anyone? - Spiceworks Community

While I completely agree with others that having a gameplan and furthuring education will open up opportunities in IT, I have to agree with Kujo on the IT industry as of right now.

As someone who has been building experience and furthering my education I am also seeing that yes salaries are shrinking and not only are salaries decreasing but requirements are going WAY up. Now keep in mind this is not true in every single location, but in most places Im looking, thats what Im seeing.

When doing IT job searches on all of the major sites I have been seeing fewer and fewer entry and mid level jobs. The ones that I have seen are either paying a paltry salary, $25K even for entry level IT is a joke, but the same job is also asking for 2 year degree plus 2-4 years of experience, and various certs. Im seeing that in all areas of Florida Im looking and in all areas of IT.

The jobs I do see available are higher level and require much more specialized experience and also atleast a 4 year degree plus all the certs. So yes in a sense having that plan and furthering experience and education will get you there, but for those of us not able to get the upper level jobs, the market is not good at all.

Im sure as with the overall economy things will get better over time. The thing that takes a while to overcome though is reduced salaries. I must say that at my salary and with what I do, Im STUCK. I got in back in 2006 when the gettin was good but with what I do in IT (network accounts provisioning) and my education SO FAR, Im absolutely stuck. IF I can find a job doing something more advanced or specialized (Networking, Server Admin, ETC) I am going to have to take a nice paycut, from what Ive been seeing to the low to mid $40s, sometimes even lower

. Now I am still plugging away on certs so that will help, and in 2 years Ill have my bachelors, but for now I just cant really go anywhere else in IT without taking a pay cut.

Ive been searching all over FL and while occasionally I come across something that I could get and not take a paycut, competition is fierce and I dont have the education component that others do. Im afraid its gotten to the point where I am now looking to move outside of IT, and I hate to do that because I love IT but I need to be able to grow.

Turgon

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

While I completely agree with others that having a gameplan and furthuring education will open up opportunities in IT, I have to agree with Kujo on the IT industry as of right now.

As someone who has been building experience and furthering my education I am also seeing that yes salaries are shrinking and not only are salaries decreasing but requirements are going WAY up. Now keep in mind this is not true in every single location, but in most places Im looking, thats what Im seeing.

When doing IT job searches on all of the major sites I have been seeing fewer and fewer entry and mid level jobs. The ones that I have seen are either paying a paltry salary, $25K even for entry level IT is a joke, but the same job is also asking for 2 year degree plus 2-4 years of experience, and various certs. Im seeing that in all areas of Florida Im looking and in all areas of IT.

The jobs I do see available are higher level and require much more specialized experience and also atleast a 4 year degree plus all the certs. So yes in a sense having that plan and furthering experience and education will get you there, but for those of us not able to get the upper level jobs, the market is not good at all.

Im sure as with the overall economy things will get better over time. The thing that takes a while to overcome though is reduced salaries. I must say that at my salary and with what I do, Im STUCK. I got in back in 2006 when the gettin was good but with what I do in IT (network accounts provisioning) and my education SO FAR, Im absolutely stuck. IF I can find a job doing something more advanced or specialized (Networking, Server Admin, ETC) I am going to have to take a nice paycut, from what Ive been seeing to the low to mid $40s, sometimes even lower . Now I am still plugging away on certs so that will help, and in 2 years Ill have my bachelors, but for now I just cant really go anywhere else in IT without taking a pay cut.

Ive been searching all over FL and while occasionally I come across something that I could get and not take a paycut, competition is fierce and I dont have the education component that others do. Im afraid its gotten to the point where I am now looking to move outside of IT, and I hate to do that because I love IT but I need to be able to grow.

This is all true. You need to use your head to get on. The support space has been squeezed for years and will continue to be squeezed. You need to serve *enough* time there and then move on.

petedude

tpatt100 wrote: »

The Dice forums are horrible. I made the mistake to go in there once and its full of trolls flaming each other. I think you have disgruntled IT people using it to relieve stress.

That's interesting. Now I have one more place I can check out at home if I feel a need to vent.

brad-

i havent seen the dice forums, but i know it is a HUGE site, and they even advertise nationally...much larger than our small community here.

I think for the most part, those here are well self-motivated and for that reason, we are mostly employed and successfull. Dice is probably the masses that are looking for the break. From what I understand its more of a job hunting place...so most people would be unemployed, and thus have a more negative attitude towards the field.

They way I read about some of you guys posts of them, its like you think their opinions are invalid - when they are the ones unemployed. Just an observation.

networker050184

Silentsoul wrote: »

How many of you have heard the saying "Find something you love to do and you'll never work a day in your life"
It is that, if you are just doing it for a job it is not for you. Late nights, long hours, weekends. You really have to enjoy this stuff to be good at it. Sure you can just do 'a job' but if you don't have a passion for it you will burn out.

Now that is not to say after a while doing it 8 + hours a day, you will still enjoy going home and tinkering, lately I pretty much get my fill of tech at work and when i get home i just want to 'zone out'
but its been a rough couple of months lately.

I couldn't agree with this more. I work long hours (was up until 4am working a project after a full 9 hour day) all the time and if I was doing any other job I probably wouldn't stick around. I'd be over there bitching about how bad the IT field is just like those individuals. In reality I love what I do so the long hours are not that bad and trust me the pay could be a lot worse.

Take what people say with a grain of salt. You are the only person who will know if IT is for you or not. If its not for you and you go into it anyway for a paycheck you will probably fit right in on those forums when you can't hold a job.

tpatt100

Salaries are dropping all across the board for other careers as well. I am sticking with IT because with a little training I can move into different fields where as for most other careers I could not

blargoe

If you're in IT because you heard you can make a lot of money, then this isn't the right field for you. You HAVE to love it or you WILL burn out. If you're in it for the right reasons, you'll have your happiness and eventually, everything will turn around and you'll be on your way to meeting your career and financial goals.

Claymoore

I wonder how many of the whiners on the Dice boards were lured into the industry by radio ads from some local training company claiming you could have a $60k a year job as a Microsoft network engineer after only 6 months of training. I am sure most of them were disappointed when they found the only jobs available were entry-level helpdesk and they would need years of experience and additional training to reach the salary levels orginally promised to them.

There are also lots of people who would like to work in IT who do not belong in IT. If you have ever done much screening or interviewing you know what I mean.

Kujo

networker050184 wrote: »

Take what people say with a grain of salt. You are the only person who will know if IT is for you or not. If its not for you and you go into it anyway for a paycheck you will probably fit right in on those forums when you can't hold a job.

Thousands of skilled IT workers, including many on the dice forums, many on these boards too, lost their jobs due to lay-offs, which is not their fault. I was one of them. It's no secret the amount layoffs that have occured in IT industry the last 2 years. Yes, lay-offs have occurred in other industries, but IT has been hit really hard. Factor that in with many experienced IT workers looking for employment, combined with the younger inexperienced crowd looking for IT work, and it's one tough IT jungle out there.

I wouldn't go out of my way to purposely discourage anyone from entering IT if that's what they really want to do, but when I'm asked, I'd say no based on the reasons I've stated, and what JoJoCal19 has said.

networker050184

Kujo wrote: »

Thousands of skilled IT workers, including many on the dice forums, many on these boards too, lost their jobs due to lay-offs, which is not their fault. I was one of them. It's no secret the amount layoffs that have occured in IT industry the last 2 years. Yes, lay-offs have occurred in other industries, but IT has been hit really hard. Factor that in with many experienced IT workers looking for employment, combined with the younger inexperienced crowd looking for IT work, and it's one tough IT jungle out there.

I wouldn't go out of my way to purposely discourage anyone from entering IT if that's what they really want to do, but when I'm asked, I'd say no based on the reasons I've stated, and what JoJoCal19 has said.

Do you have any evidence that the IT sector has been hit as hard or harder than any other sector or is it speculation?

jvaughn

If I remember correctly, something like 80% of people are in the wrong career field. Also, the average person changes careers 7 times before retiring.

Can't understate enough that you do need to love what you do, regardless of what it is.

Me? I've only been in IT (Help desk) for about 2 years ,and it is much, much, much better than being a mecahnic, at least for me.

To answer the original question about IT being bad: no, it is not bad to get into right now. Actually, now is the perfect time!!! Companies are laying of masses of people and hiring contractors at much lower pay. But soon, IT will explode once again and all those contractors will be right in line for those positions. And I can't wait for that to happen!!!!

Kujo

networker050184 wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that the IT sector has been hit as hard or harder than any other sector or is it speculation?

Tech layoffs: The scorecard | Business Tech - CNET News

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Technology-Unemployment-Rises-in-Q3-848736/

Adobe Systems to layoff 680 jobs: Report
Adobe Systems is set to lay off 680 workers, or about 9 percent of its global work force after submitting a Form 8-K with the SEC, according to a TechCrunch report.
Adobe Systems to layoff 680 jobs: Report - International Business Times -

Tech Layoffs: AOL, Sprint, Electronic Arts
Electronic Arts, the world's second-largest video game maker, is eliminating about 1,500 jobs,
Sprint is cutting between 2,000 and 2,500 jobs, about 6% of its 42,000 employees
AOL is laying off 100 of its 6,000 workers
Tech Layoffs: AOL, Sprint, Electronic Arts (Dealscape - M&A)

Those are just tech companies. There are many non tech companies have had layoffs in their IT departments, including entire IT departments off-shored.

Obviously, other industries maybe worse, but there's no denying IT has been hit hard.

veritas_libertas

jvaughn wrote: »

If I remember correctly, something like 80% of people are in the wrong career field. Also, the average person changes careers 7 times before retiring.

Can't understate enough that you do need to love what you do, regardless of what it is.

Me? I've only been in IT (Help desk) for about 2 years ,and it is much, much, much better than being a mecahnic, at least for me.

To answer the original question about IT being bad: no, it is not bad to get into right now. Actually, now is the perfect time!!! Companies are laying of masses of people and hiring contractors at much lower pay. But soon, IT will explode once again and all those contractors will be right in line for those positions. And I can't wait for that to happen!!!!

Welcome to TE! Yes, it beats what I use to do as well, "Landscaping."

QAit

Here's the reality of the world:

1. There was a huge influx of people from outside the country pre-both Y2Ks.
2. There was a glut in the market after the second Y2K.
3. People still got jobs in IT, though.
4. We hit a major recession everyone is feeling. Look around.
5. Colleges advocated for degrees and corporations wouldn't look at many unless you minimally had a BA (I know, I had my share of doors closed ... until I got my BA).
6. Now, BAs are a dime a dozen so corporations want MAs.
7. Speaking of dime a dozen, so are people in the IT field. There are state websites that
state the prevailing wages and they've all fallen or fallen off.
8. If any of you think IT will explode again, you better think again. IT jobs are being outsourced - Brazil, Kiev, India, Ireland (yes, Ireland). It's cheaper.
9. I was in QA most of my life. I moved up the ladder and expanded. Those doing QA now are often programmers. And, why not? You get a developer and a tester rolled up in one. Where did all the QA people go who started?

Is it that bad out there? It depends on where you are in your career. Get real, guys.

QAit

Bravo! Yes! Just because there may have been few layoffs this month doesn't mean we're any better off. Many companies slashed their American workforce and outsourced. I worked for five companies in ten years that did just that.

networker050184

Kujo wrote: »

Tech layoffs: The scorecard | Business Tech - CNET News

Technology Unemployment Rises in Q3

Adobe Systems to layoff 680 jobs: Report
Adobe Systems is set to lay off 680 workers, or about 9 percent of its global work force after submitting a Form 8-K with the SEC, according to a TechCrunch report.
Adobe Systems to layoff 680 jobs: Report - International Business Times -

Tech Layoffs: AOL, Sprint, Electronic Arts
Electronic Arts, the world's second-largest video game maker, is eliminating about 1,500 jobs,
Sprint is cutting between 2,000 and 2,500 jobs, about 6% of its 42,000 employees
AOL is laying off 100 of its 6,000 workers
Tech Layoffs: AOL, Sprint, Electronic Arts (Dealscape - M&A)

Those are just tech companies. There are many non tech companies have had layoffs in their IT departments, including entire IT departments off-shored.

Obviously, other industries maybe worse, but there's no denying IT has hit hard.

All you did was post that people in the tech field were laid off. I don't think anyone was denying that. That shows nothing to put that in perspective with other industries.

According to these statistics from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics the IT sector has not been hit any harder than any other this year. Its all gloom and doom without perspective.

dynamik

Between the Dice forums and all the recent reports that say IT is the place to be, I'm convinced that everything is... normal.

Turgon

I don't know about the dice people. But I don't think IT is any worse off than anything else. It's just generally bad on main street. Other areas are moving a bit though. The banks are hiring since they got bailed out, although with the banking layoffs last year there's lots of competition and plenty of folks with 5+ years fulltime banking experience applying for those roles. Defence is doing ok I notice but nobody needs to pay for your clearance as there are many SC cleared defence contractors who can start tomorrow.

With each announcement of layoffs IT usually takes a slice. From personal experience I can say that getting put forward for jobs and landing interviews isn't a problem at the moment, but getting companies to give people a start is seemingly. With so many people on the market a lot of companies are testing the waters to see who is around and how easy it is to get 10 good guys on paper. They then wait for the rates to come down even further working on the premise that there will be even more people looking for jobs in a couple of months time. Still I have many irons in the fire and keep busy with the one off jobs and its nice to spend some time with the family.

That said I got put forward for a great job for a bank that came out of the blue today. Im probably not the no 1 candidate in terms of specific experience for that one but who cares, they called me *shrug*

benchod

this all boils down to hard time getting job. How doe new comer start ? Help Desk is great to start but for how long ?

I am currently on phone job and this is the last help desk support job I will ever do.

How does certs help if you have never worked with or touched the product server.

I see some entry level / internship program but how many of them are actually hiring people.

All careers are bad at this point except medical field.

Ben

JoJoCal19

networker050184 wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that the IT sector has been hit as hard or harder than any other sector or is it speculation?

I work for the nations largest bank and wealth management company and I can say my company had the worst layoffs in the IT departments, and if people in IT were not laid off, there was a good chance their job would be offshored. Now of course there were the usual layoffs in HR, CS and so forth, but IT took the biggest hit.

Also everyone knows that IT is not a revenue generating department so they are usually the first and more heavily hit departments.

stephens316

Today on Foxnews a leading story was about 502,000 jobless claims, but they were starting to see an increase in people in the IT market laid off. I was wrongfully fired from my job, but was going to be out of work by the end of the year. I knew it coming. I know of at least 20 people to be let go. most of these people were Project Managers because the company was going to be closing at the end of the year unless a profit was made, that hasn't happened in 10 yrs so either way it was coming. I my self handled chat support I was the only certified member of the team and of the technical support side of things, but I learned a lot from this job and improved my networking skills.

Thus said I think there will be a small decline in jobs, but will come back very quickly.

The job I want to learn is a growing field everyday I just need money to help get me there.

apd123

I feel like I don't live in the same reality as this thread.
My anecdotal evidence with the job market was quite the opposite of the norm expressed here when I was looking in February. Information Technology is way too general a term for this discussion many jobs under that umbrella are loosely correlated at best. Many people work in IT and are revenue generating for their company. My companies entire business model is based off of selling IT services.