What certification would go best with CCNA maximum employability?

20x6

(I.E. more money)

A) MCSE

Server+
C) Security+
D) CCNP
E) other

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Bl8ckr0uter

20x6 wrote: »

(I.E. more money)

A) MCSE
Server+
C) Security+
D) CCNP
E) other

Depends on the type of job you are doing and what you want to do. I think most people would say CCNA+MCSE (and experience in both areas) would be good. A lot of Windows jobs want CCNA(P)s anyway so having both might be good.
You could actually work the Sec+ into you MCSE plan and that would be very good.
Server+ isn't that popular. CCNP might be good if you want to go into pure network engineering. I would say do a dice search in your area and see what is mentioned the most.

E: Do all of them (maybe not Ser+).

dynamik

Depends on what you want to do. MCSE would compliment it nicely if you want to do systems work. You'd obviously go after the NP for networking. The Security+ is a good general one to get, but it's not going to be a game-changer. The Server+ is pretty obscure though.

impelse

That's true, Security+ will not give you the shot for employment but will help you a lot to b very familiar with security conect and when you get that information with the others certifications will help to get the security view easely

aordal

I make the same amount of money with CCNA & MCSE as I did without having either. And I switched jobs. (My glass is half empty, hehe)

networker050184

Certifications are not a quick easy way to money no matter what kind of radio add you heard. This industry is huge on experience. Until you get that under your belt you are doomed to start at the bottom and work your way up. You can't cert your way to the top without anything else to back them up.

stephens316

The major emoployer right now is the government, they are looking for Comptia A+, N+, and Sec +. Which would make them worth while to get plus they are life time certs money well spent. MCSE is 4 exams along with the CCNP. Therefore it would take you longer to obtain them. I would start with Security + and then go from there

mikej412

It really depends on your experience.

Unless you just graduated from a College/University with a degree, we'll usually just toss the resumes that have "advanced" certifications (like the CCNP or MCSE) and no real IT job experience.

ColbyG

Experience.

Sepiraph

networker050184 wrote: »

Certifications are not a quick easy way to money no matter what kind of radio add you heard. This industry is huge on experience. Until you get that under your belt you are doomed to start at the bottom and work your way up. You can't cert your way to the top without anything else to back them up.

+1

Too many people with cert. but no actual experiences, or even more importantly, lacking the passion to just learn without worrying about cert.

Unfortunately it's a reality of the market to value cert more & more (esp. to HR people), but in my work experiences some of the best people I work with don't bother with cert. I have consistently seen a CCNA guy in my team (he had to get it to get the job, he had 10 years experiences) troubleshoot better than any of the CCIEs in my team.

mikedisd2

mikej412 wrote: »

Unless you just graduated from a College/University with a degree, we'll usually just toss the resumes that have "advanced" certifications (like the CCNP or MCSE) and no real IT job experience.

Downer. Chicken n egg. Sucks.

mikej412

mikedisd2 wrote: »

Chicken n egg.

Huh?

We'll hire someone with just an A+ or Network+ for a rack 'n stack position or a CCNA/MCSA for a data center "babysitting" job -- but we're not going to waste our time interviewing a no experience CCNA/CCNP/MCSE for those jobs.

20x6

mikej412 wrote: »

Huh?

We'll hire someone with just an A+ or Network+ for a rack 'n stack position or a CCNA/MCSA for a data center "babysitting" job -- but we're not going to waste our time interviewing a no experience CCNA/CCNP/MCSE for those jobs.

Ok so how is someone supposed to get IT experience in the first place if nobody will hire somone with no experience? Everyone has to start somewhere.

impelse

There are some ways to get in:

1. You can fix in the beginning some computers for friends, churches, etc and later begin to charge for doing (you get basic exp).

2. You keep studying the certifications (low to medium level) and keep applying for low profiles jobs like help desk, field tech, deploy tech, etc, etc, etc

Remember keep applying and applying and networking with some friends or technicals organizations and eventually will get a job.

Look myself, I have CCNA but my exp with Cisco is very limited (yes sometimes at work I use now some ASA, PIX and VPNs and some switches), but the company they hired me because I can fix computer and I have some Cisco knowledge.

mikej412

20x6 wrote: »

Ok so how is someone supposed to get IT experience in the first place if nobody will hire somone with no experience? Everyone has to start somewhere.

Huh?

My point was that we don't interview MORONS for entry level positions who probably dumped their CCNAs and then couldn't find a job (since they probably don't have the CCNA knowledge or CCNA skills) and then decided their job prospects would be better if they also dumped the CCNP.

Our rack 'n stack positions and data center babysitting (monitoring) positions don't require any experience.

If someone is so special that they can get the CCNA and CCNP without having any actual IT experience, then they probably won't miss our low paying entry level positions and should feel free to jump straight into a high paying Senior Network Engineer role at a major ISP.....

msteinhilber

20x6 wrote: »

Ok so how is someone supposed to get IT experience in the first place if nobody will hire somone with no experience? Everyone has to start somewhere.

Everybody does have to start somewhere, the problem is the people who hold certs such as a CCNP with no prior experience didn't work hard enough to start somewhere before they went on to a professional level certification.

They aren't going to be able (in most cases) to obtain a position to utilize the knowledge that an individual who possesses a CCNP has (or should have) without some prior experience at some level. People do have to start somewhere, you are entirely correct. But obtaining certifications beyond the entry level and starting out into more advanced certifications isn't the way to guarantee employment at the entry level.

Turgon

msteinhilber wrote: »

Everybody does have to start somewhere, the problem is the people who hold certs such as a CCNP with no prior experience didn't work hard enough to start somewhere before they went on to a professional level certification.

They aren't going to be able (in most cases) to obtain a position to utilize the knowledge that an individual who possesses a CCNP has (or should have) without some prior experience at some level. People do have to start somewhere, you are entirely correct. But obtaining certifications beyond the entry level and starting out into more advanced certifications isn't the way to guarantee employment at the entry level.

I agree. The important thing is to get *in* with a company so you can start to harden what you know with some proper work. Certifications are useful but what makes you most employable is your ability to get real work done. So you need to get on and do some. A few entry level certifications is enough, after that concentrate on expending your energies finding entry level work. A company will give you a break sooner or later if you keep punting.

20x6

mikej412 wrote: »

Huh?

My point was that we don't interview MORONS for entry level positions who probably dumped their CCNAs and then couldn't find a job (since they probably don't have the CCNA knowledge or CCNA skills) and then decided their job prospects would be better if they also dumped the CCNP.

Our rack 'n stack positions and data center babysitting (monitoring) positions don't require any experience.

If someone is so special that they can get the CCNA and CCNP without having any actual IT experience, then they probably won't miss our low paying entry level positions and should feel free to jump straight into a high paying Senior Network Engineer role at a major ISP.....

Just trying to get an idea of what entry level work in this field pays....how much does a "rack n stack" or "data center babysitting" position pay where you work?

Slowhand

20x6 wrote: »

Ok so how is someone supposed to get IT experience in the first place if nobody will hire somone with no experience? Everyone has to start somewhere.

Any experience is good experience. There are various types of experience that you can list on a resume without compromising your professionalism. My "scale" of importance and relevance is as follows:

1.) Work-experience - This is the top of the heap because it (usually) the most intensive and advanced hands-on experience you ever get. This is also the most prestigious type of experience simply because it generally means you've proven you can work in a professional environment, like the one that your potential employer runs. When people say "work experience", it usually means formally working for a paycheck as a systems administrator/network engineer for a company that has a quantifiable budget for IT and depends on IT services for their day-to-day business; meaning, they have more than the "couple of desktops and an internet connection" infrastructure and actually require servers, switches, etc.

2.) Volunteer work and/or independent consulting - Since there is no measuring stick for how difficult a volunteer or on-the-side gig is "supposed" to be, I'd say this kind of experience falls just below formal, on-the-job experience and training. Often times, these two types of experience are found with smaller companies that can't afford to hire full-time IT staff or an outsourcing company, or even K-12 schools.

3.) Home-lab work - The only reason that this falls lower than volunteer work and side-gigs is because you're rarely under as much pressure to perform in your own environment as you are in someone else's. Still, being able to work through hypothetical scenarios and set up different servers, routers, switches, etc. is all good experience, and doing it at home is generally "good enough" to list it on your resume; (as long as you're honest with yourself and the employer about your skill-level).

4.) Taking a class - This is always a good way to learn, but lab-time and hands-on experience can be limited and narrow in scope. I can always recommend taking classes, but definitely be prepared to do a lot of work at home to perfect the new things you're learning. Schools will, however, often have equipment that you don't have access to at home, so take advantage of that whenever you can.

5.) Boot-camps - These are generally for people who have already spent a lot of time studying and worked at home and need to be immersed in some intense hands-on work for a short time before taking an exam or handling a big project. Often times, people take boot-camps for the wrong reasons; they end up cramming in a whole lot of new info in order to pass a test, only to forget it all soon after. The only reason boot-camps don't rate higher on my list of preferences is because of the short amount of time you spend with the material, and how much of it is to learn in that time.

Of course, none of these mean that you're automagically an expert at anything you do. Some people who claim to have 15 years' experience as sysadmins spent the last ten of those sitting around playing solitaire and fixing minor issues with desktops and haven't touched a server since NT4, while others (*COUGH*dynamik*COUGH*) learn at a very fast pace and absorb training and information so quickly you'd think that they'd been doing this for decades, not a few months or a few years. You get out of it what you put into it, basically, but the above guidelines are what I've found to be true most of the time.

(Reading books and watching videos don't count into this list because they're not really "experience" so much as logical learning. Memorizing facts and reading theory is great, but they're supplements to hands-on experience, not replacements.)

CSCOnoob

Problem is, not a lot of companies are hiring entry level jobs for Cisco stuff. Only thing left to do is to try and rack up some certs.

mikej412

CSCOnoob wrote: »

Problem is, not a lot of companies are hiring entry level jobs for Cisco stuff. Only thing left to do is to try and rack up some certs.

A lot of companies aren't hiring for anything -- and probably won't be for a while.

RobertKaucher

CSCOnoob wrote: »

Problem is, not a lot of companies are hiring entry level jobs for Cisco stuff. Only thing left to do is to try and rack up some certs.

As has been pointed out a lot of places are not hiring for anything.

But a lot of not for profits are on the tipping point and need help. Get your resume and other information out. Volunteer your time for churches, soup kitchens, animal rescues, etc... Any of these might need help with any number of things ranging from server issues to networking.

You will never know until you start hitting the pavement.

CSCOnoob

Yup, not a lot of companies are hiring, but there are still companies out there that are hiring - you just need lots and lots of experience from pretty much everything, MS, Unix, Cisco, and etc. It is ridiculous but what can you do?

eduromer

Do not get CCNP if you have no experience or you end up closing more doors than opening for your carreer trust me.

Kaminsky

ColbyNA wrote: »

Experience.

Outstanding answer Colby... Nice.

veritas_libertas

I think he means the MCSA: http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcsa.aspx#tab2

@OP: I can't blame you for wanting to maximize your time studying before your first IT job. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I personally think a MCITP:EA/SA or MCSE/MCSA would compliment your CCNA very well. It all just depends on what your long term goal is.

thomas130

Well I currently going through an interview progress with a company and they don't care about qualifications and certs.

They just said to me we have no qualifications yet we are running a company worth millions.

Qualifications and Certs are'nt everything.

Don't get me wrong I going for my ccna and mcse as well as my degree but experience will always mean more.

RobertKaucher

I don't really understand... Does this company only hire 65 year old ladies who cannot type and don't even know what computer networks are?

Because a "qualification" is simply

a quality, accomplishment, etc., that fits a person for some function, office, or the like.

How can this company not care about qualifications?

impelse

Sometimes it is not the company itself that it is not interested in certifications, normally is the person who is interviewing that he does not bealive in certifications because he/she wants to justify why he/she did not get one.

thomas130

RobertKaucher wrote: »

I don't really understand... Does this company only hire 65 year old ladies who cannot type and don't even know what computer networks are?

Because a "qualification" is simply

How can this company not care about qualifications?

I agree with you the since starting my IT career over 2 years ago I can said none of my employers have care about my qualifications but to be fair they had none themselves.
I have talk to people who have a degree and certs and think they are important it's just a point of view.

I'm just using my qualifications to say to employers that I'm capable at a certain level and what I said in the interview about my qualifications is if I don't invest in myself why should you. They seem impress by this and agreed.

MentholMoose

RobertKaucher wrote: »

As has been pointed out a lot of places are not hiring for anything.

But a lot of not for profits are on the tipping point and need help. Get your resume and other information out. Volunteer your time for churches, soup kitchens, animal rescues, etc... Any of these might need help with any number of things ranging from server issues to networking.

You will never know until you start hitting the pavement.

Yes, definitely do volunteer work.

The CIS program at my local community college has a required course where students do IT work for the local K-12 school district, the local library, and some other organizations. When I was in the program a few years ago, I saw many students obtain very good jobs using just their CIS AS degree and the experience from that course! Some were hired by the school district and the other organizations, while others got jobs through contacts gained while doing that work.

Also, one of my previous jobs was at a IT consulting company focused on smaller non-profits. The company's biggest client (~200 employees) was obtained after my boss (the company owner) volunteered to do a few small side jobs for the client!

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