Hiring Managers: University of Phoenix

eMeS wrote: »

Simply put, you are wrong.

Undergraduate standards are tough, without a doubt. But what we all achieve in life is determined by the choices we make.

Graduate programs are often a bit easier to get into at top-tier schools. At least one other member here, if he is reading this, will back me up on that statement.

You're implying that admission to these schools is random, and somewhat out of control of the applicant. Nothing could be more different from the truth. Additionally, universities are notorious for circumventing all of their processes, including their admissions processes.

Again, if you want to attend a top-tier school, and work to achieve that goal, then you will make the choices that get you there.

MS

I still think you are generalizing too much.

I never implied that admission to these schools are random. The seats are limited. As you said with your supply and demand insight.
Example: The school has 500 seats for it's computer science degree and 1000 students will identical perfect applications apply. It comes down to essay and interview.

Anyone on this forum would love the opportunity to study at these Ivy League schools and pick the brains of those professors. But it is not reality. Not everyone can do it.

eMeS wrote: »

You are the only person that is in control of the choices you make.

MS

Yes, You can make the choice to take the CCNA exam. So you sign up on the prometric website.
You can make the choice to attend WGU. So you enroll online.
You can make the choice to want to go to Harvard. But you have to get accepted.

Warsh1p wrote: »

Anyone on this forum would love the opportunity to study at these Ivy League schools and pick the brains of those professors. But it is not reality. Not everyone can do it.

I wouldn't. I think there are better uses for my money. Just because someone is a harvard professor doesn't make them the best teacher. I'm not saying I have had the best instructors, but I have had some very good ones in the past.

I'd like to pick the brains of some windows developers. Some of the things they have done preplex me...

Warsh1p wrote: »

I still think you are generalizing too much.

I never implied that admission to these schools are random. The seats are limited. As you said with your supply and demand insight.
Example: The school has 500 seats for it's computer science degree and 1000 students will identical perfect applications apply. It comes down to essay and interview.

Anyone on this forum would love the opportunity to study at these Ivy League schools and pick the brains of those professors. But it is not reality. Not everyone can do it.

All I can really say is that if you want to do something then you make choices that lead you to that long-term goal. People that get into these schools made choices and sacrifices so that they could get what they wanted. There is no reason that everyone here that wants to can't do the same thing; there is a reason why everyone here won't do that.

That's what's really great about the US; we're only ever truly limited by our own choices.

MS

Warsh1p wrote: »

Yes, You can make the choice to take the CCNA exam. So you sign up on the prometric website.
You can make the choice to attend WGU. So you enroll online.
You can make the choice to want to go to Harvard. But you have to get accepted.

He is saying that part of the choice to go to harvard also includes the choice to study and get a perfect score on your SAT.

He is saying that anyone can go to harvard if the following two goals are met:
1. You work your tail off and have a resume that is good enough to be accepted.
2. You apply

You seem to think the choice is only that second part, but if you really want to be there, then you will have to make the choice to also build yourself up so that you deserve to be there.

eMeS wrote: »

All I can really say is that if you want to do something then you make choices that lead you to that long-term goal. People that get into these schools made choices and sacrifices so that they could get what they wanted. There is no reason that everyone here that wants to can't do the same thing; there is a reason why everyone here won't do that.

That's what's really great about the US; we're only ever truly limited by our own choices.

MS

People have made the same choices and sacrifices as those who have got accepted but did not.

You think only Neil Armstrong wanted to be the first person on the moon? I am sure plenty of other people in the world wanted to and still want step foot on the moon. But it probably won't happen for them. They will go through all the training and exercises needed and it just won't happen.

We obviously have different views on this subject so we can agree to disagree.

Lets get back to

'ing

tpatt100

eMeS wrote: »

All I can really say is that if you want to do something then you make choices that lead you to that long-term goal. People that get into these schools made choices and sacrifices so that they could get what they wanted. There is no reason that everyone here that wants to can't do the same thing; there is a reason why everyone here won't do that.

That's what's really great about the US; we're only ever truly limited by our own choices.

MS

Amen to that. I might not agree with everything you said earlier but I do believe in the general idea of what you said.

Warsh1p wrote: »

You think only Neil Armstrong wanted to be the first person on the moon? I am sure plenty of other people in the world wanted to and still want step foot on the moon. But it probably won't happen for them. They will go through all the training and exercises needed and it just won't happen.

Sounds like they should have built their own rocket.

dynamik wrote: »

Sounds like they should have built their own rocket.

For the record, it was never decided who should walk on the moon first. It was either going to be Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin. (The other guy, Michael Collins, had to man the ship and wouldn't partake in the moon walking.)

Rather than fight it out and bicker, Buzz decided that Neil should be the first.

SrSysAdmin

Devilsbane wrote: »

For the record, it was never decided who should walk on the moon first. It was either going to be Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin. (The other guy, Michael Collins, had to man the ship and wouldn't partake in the moon walking.)

Rather than fight it out and bicker, Buzz decided that Neil should be the first.

Oh really? I guess I must have gotten confused by the actual facts on this one...I do a lot of work for NASA and know that what you've said is a complete farce.

From the article linked here:

First, if there were no technical reason for one man or the other to lead the way, Armstrong would have priority simply because he was the senior astronaut. He was from the second group of astronauts, recruited in 1962, while Aldrin was from the third, recruited in 1963. All by itself this was a compelling argument; seniority meant a lot in Slayton's astronaut corps.

And second, in fact there was a technical reason for Armstrong to go first. The real decision had already been made, by some anonymous design engineer. The Lunar Module's moonwalk hatch was below and in front of the astronauts, and was roughly square. It hinged inward, with the hinges not at the top or the bottom, but at one side – the pilot's side. It swung open away from the commander and toward the pilot. So when the hatch was open, Armstrong had a clear path to manoeuvre out through the opening, while Aldrin was penned in behind the hatch.

In the LM's cramped cabin, in clumsy spacesuits, the only practical way out was from Armstrong's side. Once Armstrong was out, Aldrin had to close the hatch again, slide sideways past it, and only then open it – from Armstrong's side of the cabin – for his own exit.

The only way that Aldrin could go out first was for the two men to swap places before opening the hatch. This wasn't quite impossible, but it was very difficult; when Armstrong and Aldrin tried it in an LM mockup, they damaged some of the cabin equipment! The commander simply had to go first.

Aldrin was visibly unhappy with the conclusion, but couldn't argue with the reasoning. Neil Armstrong would be the first man on the moon.

Sorry to be a jerk, but to say that Buzz made this decision couldn't be further from the truth...not sure where you get your facts, but as an individual that works with NASA on a daily basis, I know this to be untrue with absolute certainty.

knwminus wrote: »

How much do you think having a degree from an IVY has helped you in your career?

I never really know how to answer this question.

If I wanted to I could probably have any job with any company, around or near my area of expertise. I'm not interested in working for someone else.

Sometimes I think that without the education that I have, that I couldn't do what I do. However, the reality is that very rarely am I asked to prove credentials by my customers. More often than not, they are interested in what results have been achieved in the past.

Any degree, no matter where it's from, is really just a door opener. It's up to the individual to take the initiative and walk through the door.

MS

dynamik wrote: »

Sounds like they should have built their own rocket.

Exactly...

It's an extreme example, but the point is clear. Many things in life are a matter of persistence....

MS

Bl8ckr0uter

eMeS wrote: »

Any degree, no matter where it's from, is really just a door opener. It's up to the individual to take the initiative and walk through the door.

MS

I'm pretty sure that while it maybe just a door opener, the size difference of the doors and the amount of doors is considerable.

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

Sorry to be a jerk, but to say that Buzz made this decision couldn't be further from the truth...not sure where you get your facts, but as an individual that works with NASA on a daily basis, I know this to be untrue with absolute certainty.

Well then he lied, because I watched him do an interview on the Bonnie Hunt show. I wrote what he said word for word to the best of my memory.

Warsh1p wrote: »

EDIT: All of this said, I still don't think it matters if you have an Ivy league/Private degree, a State University degree or an online non-profit/for-profit degree. I highly doubt someone with a degree from WGU is going to be applying for the same job a Harvard or MIT grad is applying for.
State Universities vs. Online/For-Profit schools would be the real question but it is your own preference... Do you want to be the guy applying with a State University on your resume or the guy with the online/for-profit institution on your resume?

I agree with this completely for the most part.

All things held equal, I would want the degree that I have to explain the least.

MS

tpatt100 wrote: »

Amen to that. I might not agree with everything you said earlier but I do believe in the general idea of what you said.

Well, at least I didn't apologize to BP.....

bobonecoupon

eMeS wrote: »

I never really know how to answer this question.

If I wanted to I could probably have any job with any company, around or near my area of expertise. I\'m not interested in working for someone else.

Sometimes I think that without the education that I have, that I couldn\'t do what I do. However, the reality is that very rarely am I asked to prove credentials by my customers. More often than not, they are interested in what results have been achieved in the past.

Any degree, no matter where it\'s from, is really just a door opener. It\'s up to the individual to take the initiative and walk through the door.

MS

I have been following these forums for awhile and you are a very active poster. In fact you are probably one of the most well respected as not many people disagree with you. You say anyone can do anything, which is very childish. What have you created or developed in this industry? Have you only supported? Why not create or develop something? Go to IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Apple, etc. and apply. Why are you restricting your potential with free lancing and learning other peoples technologies? It\'s a joke how you pretend to be someone with some type of input when you have not done anything in the field and only have a job because others are creating the technology. You said \"Getting accepted in the first place was also a choice\", it is not a choice to get accepted. It is a choice to apply. Then another choice to go to the school after getting accepted. People who go to ITT Tech, DeVry, West Govs and others don\'t have the ability to go to Ivy League schools thats why they are not going. No one chooses to go to DeVry over Mass Tech. They go to DeVry because they cannot go to MIT. Your not realistic in your claims. It is your human emotion of jealously that clouds your mind.

My magic eight-ball predicts MS' response will be: "Because I don't want to take a pay cut."

bobonecoupon wrote: »

I have been following these forums for awhile and you are a very active poster. In fact you are probably one of the most well respected as not many people disagree with you. You say anyone can do anything, which is very childish. What have you created or developed in this industry? Have you only supported? Why not create or develop something? Go to IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Apple, etc. and apply. Why are you restricting your potential with free lancing and learning other peoples technologies? It\'s a joke how you pretend to be someone with some type of input when you have not done anything in the field and only have a job because others are creating the technology. You said \"Getting accepted in the first place was also a choice\", it is not a choice to get accepted. It is a choice to apply. Then another choice to go to the school after getting accepted. People who go to ITT Tech, DeVry, West Govs and others don\'t have the ability to go to Ivy League schools thats why they are not going. No one chooses to go to DeVry over Mass Tech. They go to DeVry because they cannot go to MIT. Your not realistic in your claims. It is your human emotion of jealously that clouds your mind.

How do you know what I've created and what I haven't created?

I strongly believe that anyone can do anything they put their mind to. That's not childish, it's inclusive. Even you could learn proper grammar, sentence structure, and how to spell if you really put some effort into it.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm in agreement with Thomas Edison, who stated:

Thomas Edison wrote:

Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration.

This random post is the problem with these discussions about schools/degrees. The school could be called "bobonecoupon's Kick in the Nuts School", then someone will ask about whether the degrees from there are respected or not, and someone else out there will respond that they suck. Then there's someone out there who attended "bobonecoupon's Kick in the Nuts School" who thinks it's the cat's meow that gets worked up about it.

Well it's not the cat's meow; it's the cat's ass. It was a choice to attend that school, just as it is a choice to attend any other school. If you don't like what people think about your school, then make better choices.

MS

Bl8ckr0uter

eMeS wrote: »

Well it's not the cat's meow; it's the cat's ass.
MS

We had such a good laugh at this (the wife and I). Wish I could give you rep.

knwminus wrote: »

We had such a good laugh at this (the wife and I). Wish I could give you rep.

I'm certain that Bob was sucking on a cat's ass when he wrote that post.

MS

eMeS wrote: »

then make better choices.

This is an important point that I don't think everyone is really appreciating. When "choice" is used in this context, it's not referring to a single impetuous decision. It's a decision to pursue a long-term goal and see it through. It also takes into account previous choices and their consequences.

No one's saying you can drop out of high-school, smoke crack heavily for a decade, and then just make a choice to apply to Harvard and magically get accepted. At any time you can certainly make a choice to pursue a Harvard education, but you need to do serious damage control and repair before you can even make a genuine attempt at the goal itself.

There are numerous stories of children who have grown up broke, homeless, and abandoned and have managed to put themselves through very reputable schools. No one I know of here has come from a more difficult beginning, and if they can do it, I don't see why anyone who wants something that bad can't do the same.

rurouni_song

eMeS wrote: »

How do you know what I've created and what I haven't created?

I strongly believe that anyone can do anything they put their mind to. That's not childish, it's inclusive. Even you could learn proper grammar, sentence structure, and how to spell if you really put some effort into it.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm in agreement with Thomas Edison, who stated:

This random post is the problem with these discussions about schools/degrees. The school could be called "bobonecoupon's Kick in the Nuts School", then someone will ask about whether the degrees from there are respected or not, and someone else out there will respond that they suck. Then there's someone out there who attended "bobonecoupon's Kick in the Nuts School" who thinks it's the cat's meow that gets worked up about it.

Well it's not the cat's meow; it's the cat's ass. It was a choice to attend that school, just as it is a choice to attend any other school. If you don't like what people think about your school, then make better choices.

MS

That's not really true. A someone missing a arm or a leg will never be able play in the NBA no matter how much he tries, someone who is really slow in the head will most likely not going to become a scientist or a doctor ect....

But yes I do tend to agree with you on this point for most people, its is about the effort you put in that gets you to where you want to be. You can surpase a genius if you put in more work on the subject then he does. In the end it's all about hard work, effort and determination. ( at least thats the case until you reach the upper tier of any proffession, where everyone is just as hard working and determined as you are, then the only difference will be things that are out of your control)

thenjduke

Devilsbane wrote: »

I wouldn't. I think there are better uses for my money. Just because someone is a harvard professor doesn't make them the best teacher. I'm not saying I have had the best instructors, but I have had some very good ones in the past.

I'd like to pick the brains of some windows developers. Some of the things they have done preplex me...

I could not agree with you more. I have had some great instructors and they have not even been in any college. My old boss was great. You could give him any IT problem and he would have a answer for it the next day. I had a issue where we needed to program a custom application for our insurance quotes and the next day he had the code written in C++. I know he did not know this language but he went home and learn alot of it and had it written for us. The guy was smart as a whip and I used his brain to learn.

Devilsbane wrote: »

Well then he lied, because I watched him do an interview on the Bonnie Hunt show. I wrote what he said word for word to the best of my memory.

Regardless of what we all think about the opinions stated here, I think we can all agree that watching Bonnie Hunt is fruity.

Buzz Aldrin is a badass...anyone remember when he punched that conspiracy theorist guy?

MS

SrSysAdmin

eMeS wrote: »

Regardless of what we all think about the opinions stated here, I think we can all agree that watching Bonnie Hunt is fruity.

Who the hell is Bonnie Hunt anyways?

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

Who the hell is Bonnie Hunt anyways?

That is the correct response.

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

Who the hell is Bonnie Hunt anyways?

^^^^^^^