Would this be a risky move?

So i am currently a federal employee for the Department of the Army working as a Network Engineer. The pay is ok, the job is stable, but the work can be very frustrating due to....the lack of innovation from fellow employees. This is more than likely largely in part due to the fact of job security as a federal employee.

Now in these current times, would it be a bad choice to leave the government and go work for a large corporation (private sector). The pay would be better, the work more interesting and much larger scale. Downside is the fact that you can walk in any day and get canned. Haven't worked in the private sector since this all happened so input would be awesome. Thanks.

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NinjaBoy

Personally, I would wait until the economy stabilizes more. However saying that I have a family to think about, hence my answer...

-ken

Bl8ckr0uter

The government does lay off people as well. It doesn't happen as often but it does happen. That said, with you skills and (experience???), have you thought about looking at local cisco partners? They may have a better place for you.

Chipsch

True, family to think about here also. The company in question is a very profitable fortune 500 company that just had one of its most profitable quarters throughout all of these hardships. Talked to the wife about this and she isn't crazy about it but she is supportive. One of my biggest concerns at this point is being able to advance in a company and where i currently am, there really isn't any. Looking at several years before even a shot at moving to a gs-12/2210 position within the same organization. Then i would be moving away from the technical aspect which isn't exactly on my agenda. Pro's and con's *sigh*

Chipsch

As far as cisco partners, it is a thought. Living in Aiken, SC there isn't a ton of options in the direct vicenity. Columbia would be the best option and not a whole lot going on there for cisco partners it seems. Augusta, GA which is the same distance just off to the west instead is very scarce on cisco partners.

forkvoid

Chipsch wrote: »

As far as cisco partners, it is a thought. Living in Aiken, SC there isn't a ton of options in the direct vicenity. Columbia would be the best option and not a whole lot going on there for cisco partners it seems. Augusta, GA which is the same distance just off to the west instead is very scarce on cisco partners.

The great thing about working for a partner is that your location rarely matters, as the majority of work is done remotely anyways. That opens your employment options up quite a bit, without having to relocate.

Chipsch

At forkvoid: Wasn't aware that when working for a partner most of the work is done remotely. That a pretty consistent practice across the board?

forkvoid

Chipsch wrote: »

At forkvoid: Wasn't aware that when working for a partner most of the work is done remotely. That a pretty consistent practice across the board?

I work for a Microsoft partner. I do most of my work from home. The Cisco partner we contract with for networking is located in Texas. Our security consultant is in Nashville, but works for a company out of North Carolina.

So far as I have seen, yes.

eansdad

A question to ask yourself is "How far from retirement/being vested are you?". I find myself asking that question (civil service employee in NJ) and I have 3 years before being vested. Doesn't sound like much but the extra $12k/yr when I retire will surely help out. I agree that when family is drawn into the equation stability wins out with jobs.

[Deleted User]

eansdad wrote: »

A question to ask yourself is "How far from retirement/being vested are you?". I find myself asking that question (civil service employee in NJ) and I have 3 years before being vested. Doesn't sound like much but the extra $12k/yr when I retire will surely help out. I agree that when family is drawn into the equation stability wins out with jobs.

+1 Completely agree here. I believe that when your family's needs are factored in that stability is best. Great points on the retirement factor also.

Chipsch

Have only been with civil service for a year now. Was a contractor before that. Also the position is keyed as temp for two years and supposed to go permanent. Hasn't happened yet though. So as far as retirement i have a long ways to go.

RouteThisWay

I am glad someone else sees that in federal world as well.

It is funny, I see a lot of guys on here wanting to get into Federal govt work. If only they knew. The lack of innovation is something I see every single day. We exist to simply spend tax dollars and waste money just to spend every cent of our fy budget so as to justify our existence; which in turn, is to simply spend our budget. Weird.

I would give up my clearance in a heart beat and work in the private sector for a company that had a general product/service it was producing/supporting. People don't realize how important it is to see value and end results in the work you do. I think I was happier making $10/hr doing support for our large enterprise customers that purchased our customized desktops/servers, than I am making quite a bit more than that doing higher lvl work for the fed. Atleast there I felt some kind of appreciation for the fanatical support I was providing.

I say if it pays the bills and feeds your family, go for it. But, I am a single guy with no kids so I don't really have the same "provider" mentality as you would have. I can pick up and move anywhere in the world in 2 weeks. I don't think that is a luxury many people have.

N2IT

RouteThisWay wrote: »

I am glad someone else sees that in federal world as well.

It is funny, I see a lot of guys on here wanting to get into Federal govt work. If only they knew. The lack of innovation is something I see every single day. We exist to simply spend tax dollars and waste money just to spend every cent of our fy budget so as to justify our existence; which in turn, is to simply spend our budget. Weird.

I would give up my clearance in a heart beat and work in the private sector for a company that had a general product/service it was producing/supporting. People don't realize how important it is to see value and end results in the work you do. I think I was happier making $10/hr doing support for our large enterprise customers that purchased our customized desktops/servers, than I am making quite a bit more than that doing higher lvl work for the fed. Atleast there I felt some kind of appreciation for the fanatical support I was providing.

I say if it pays the bills and feeds your family, go for it. But, I am a single guy with no kids so I don't really have the same "provider" mentality as you would have. I can pick up and move anywhere in the world in 2 weeks. I don't think that is a luxury many people have.

That sounds depressing.

Paul Boz

I would not say it is risky in the sense that you'll just be entering the same job market that most everyone else is in. There's a certain level of risk that comes with looking for a new job but there's also significant rewards in it. In your case that would be the intrinsic reward of job satisfaction and having direction. You'll probably also get more money. On the other hand you'll also probably be worked harder and encounter more direct competition, but that to me is another reward.

Chipsch

Thanks all for the awesome feedback. Sorry i couldn't respond sooner, moving into a new house and other stuff going on. Paul Boz...i can't wait for the competition, currently there is none. Routethisway, glad to see someone else feels the same way as me. Unfortunately, most people i encounter seem to want into federal work because they know they can get away with tons of screw ups and not have to be innovative. They are glad to push problems off on other people. Like our NetOps Chief who doesn't want to go anywhere because quote "if i go there and screw up they might get rid of me." We have had people that took down 40 buildings because they were screwing around with stuff w/o sufficient knowledge. No consequences whatsoever. Time for me to move on or i might find myself in a padded cell due to insanity.

bermovick

N2IT wrote: »

That sounds depressing.

I dunno, the 4-wheelers and snowmobiles our site purchased when I was in the Air Force, just to drain the last of our yearly budget wasn't too depressing.

CrapMasterZero

I am a federal employee doing IA work (acquisition/C&A/IA). Anyway I am mid 20s...while average age around is 45ish (my agency). I am the youngest in my team by a decade, and yes things are slow. But you do get the job security, benefits etc. I agree there's no innovation but I do technical stuff after work to keep myself satisfied...but then again it's up to you. Good luck.

jmritenour

RouteThisWay wrote: »

It is funny, I see a lot of guys on here wanting to get into Federal govt work. If only they knew. The lack of innovation is something I see every single day. We exist to simply spend tax dollars and waste money just to spend every cent of our fy budget so as to justify our existence; which in turn, is to simply spend our budget. Weird.

I'm in a similar spot working in K12 education. I'd give just about anything to get back into the private sector at this point.

powerfool

I am a DoD contractor, and from what all of the civilian employees say, if you have a few years under your belt and want to get to that pension, you may want to look into a new federal job. They are out there all over the place. You would have to advance your GS level fairly easily that way to get better pay, and you would contribute another year of service, or more, towards your pension. Once you have that finished up, you could then look at switching to a contractor. But, I have no idea how many years you have under your belt.

earweed

I don't know if the OP has a degree or not but I know moving up pay grades in federal jobs is usually easier with a degree. All that will really do though is that you'll be in charge of all the knuckleheads you don't want to be working with.
Having the family and all a move is always risky so tread lightly. You must have a clearance alreday working for the Army so be sure to go somewhere that uses that like a defense contractor or something. Clearances are only god (while inactive) for 2 years and then the next place you go that needs one would have to start from scratch.

colemic

I've ALWAYS heard that the fed doesn't fire anyone, they simply promote them to a new organization.

phantasm

colemic wrote: »

I've ALWAYS heard that the fed doesn't fire anyone, they simply promote them to a new organization.

Oh no, they do fire people, just not as often. I've been trying to go federal for 8 years and can't even get a phone call. I'm even a veteran, makes no difference. Oh well.

tdean

powerfool wrote: »

I am a DoD contractor, and from what all of the civilian employees say, if you have a few years under your belt and want to get to that pension, you may want to look into a new federal job. They are out there all over the place. You would have to advance your GS level fairly easily that way to get better pay, and you would contribute another year of service, or more, towards your pension. Once you have that finished up, you could then look at switching to a contractor. But, I have no idea how many years you have under your belt.

where? how does someone become a federal employee? where are these jobs and how do "non insiders" apply? better yet, apply and actually get hired?

kiki1579

As long as you have your time in with the Fed, and enough to get another Fed job, then that's good. If your job is temp or temp to perm, then you aren't safe with your job. You need to be a Tenure 1 or 2 with at least 1 plus year in I believe in order to be perm.

You can certainly get canned especially being temp/perm in the feds, however it's a lot more rare than most regular jobs. I do however understand why your P.O. enough to want to leave and I don't blame you. I've been there done that for 5 years. I would wait until they are supposed to make it perm,only IF you can wait that long. If they never go perm after a certain point, then I would jump ship. Regardless of what happens not much is going to change with the Fed's. So if you are looking to branch out, I'd hold off till you get a better idea.

phantasm

tdean wrote: »

where? how does someone become a federal employee? where are these jobs and how do "non insiders" apply? better yet, apply and actually get hired?

Short answer.... you don't. Every federal employee I know got their job because they knew someone. I've been trying on my own for 8 yrs and can't even get a phone call. So good luck and get in line. lol.

CrapMasterZero

To those who want to get into federal employment. Here's how I got in. I graduated in 2009 with BS in EE from a UC. Interviewed on campus and got in a DoD agency through the Federal Career Intern Program (FCIP). Starting salary was mid 60s. Location of agency is in CA. My other friends who joined defense contractors also received similar salaries, so the myth of underpaid fed was dispelled, however, my agency only hires CS, EE or some other hard science/engineering major (no civil, environmental etc. though), so that might be the reason why pay was comparable. Oh, another thing - you have to have a degree. I was put in 0855 Electronics Engineer position (even though I don't do EE work, I still use knowledge of it in my program). For those with other degrees but IT experience (i.e. non-engineering majors) you will be likely put in 2210 series.

My advice to those looking for federal jobs is: look for programs under FCIP. This is a program designed to get in people quickly. You will be on probation for 2-years then be converted to permanent status. If you apply the regular way (USAJobs) you will compete with other people and end up competing with veterans who get preference points in selection.

Right now I see people clamoring to get in federal jobs but be patient and keep applying. One thing which seems to help is if you already were a contractor working on a govt project....then you can get converted pretty easily. I see this all the time at my agency.

Check out FederalSoup.com which is a good message board for feds. Good luck.

For the person who said feds don't get fired. I have asked around and everyone told me that they don't know of a single fed who has been fired. If the person is incompetent he usually gets a promotion or put on some other type of work.

Chipsch

Getting to be a fed does seem like it takes knowing the right person. Was contracting at the same place and that is how i switched. Switched over due to contract fading out and not a lot of opportunities at the time. Suppose it boils down to if you can handle it suck it up, enjoy the job security, and wait to retire. Unfortunately that isn't me. So i'm gonna roll the dice and see what happens. Frustrating when you have several GS-11/2210 network technicians around you making 65k and none of them know what OSPF is. Heck, one of them swore up and down TCP/iP is a routing protocol. For those of you looking to get into that world though, usajobs is a good one to check out. Another would be cpol.army.mil.....that will give you a list of department of the army positions.

Chipsch

Well to follow up on this thread, i have an interview next week so we'll see how it goes. Enterprise level with several remote sites. Lots of fun stuff involved also, voip, wireless, vanilla r&s. Fun toys there also, nexxus. Have been wanting to get my hands on one of those bad boys for a while now.