Heading into CCNA

hey guys I finally decided which cert to pursue next and decided to go with the ccna. I read over the faq page and decided to purchase they todd lammle study guide. I am looking into the CCNA 640-802 Exam Certification Library, Simulator Edition by Wendell odom CCNA 640-802 Exam Certification Library, Simulator Edition but would like to know if anyone has used this and how good it is? I am also looking around on ciscokits website for some hardware but to be honest im confused on what would be good hardware to use or what to buy..I have seen people mention buying off ebay which would be cheaper. Im really confused on the lab side of this as i dont know what to get that would help. thanks in advanced

I have no experience and im hoping of learning alot from having my own personal lab

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impz

Books

Cisco Press, Wendell Odom

Amazon.com: CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (Exam 640-802), Third Edition (Containing ICND1 and ICND2 Second Edition Exam Certification Guides) (9781587201837): Wendell Odom: Books

[AND/OR]

Sybex, Todd Lammle

Amazon.com: CCNA: Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide: Exam 640-802 (9780470110089): Todd Lammle: Books

Videos

CBT Nuggets, Jeremy Ciora

Simulator (to stimulate Cisco routers and switches)

Cisco Packet Tracer
GNS3

Lab Setup (this is a big one)

mikej412 wrote: »

Certificationkits is fine -- but you pay for the convenience of someone else doing the shopping (and storage, and any upgrades) and you lose out on the learning experience.

I thought 2501 routers were only worth $25 back when I built my lab -- and now I think they are worth only $10 and should come with MAX memory and flash (and preferably the $5 transceiver without paying for it). Of course other people were always bidding them up over $50 so I didn't get one for a long time -- but I survived with $9 maxed out 2513s and paid $1 for an 8 port IBM Token Ring switch and $5 for a transceiver (since a 2513 is just a 2501 with an ADDED Token Ring port).

The 2500 series still has some life, but is losing steam for lab use with the rise of IPv6. But even today they can still be used as backbone routers in a CCIE Lab.

Oh -- if you can't find a cheap $10 2501 switch, you can hunt for a $15-$20 steal on an old PRE-XM 2600 series router. They support more DRAM than the 2501s but still have only 16Meg flash. There may have been a BIO update that let you upgrade a 2620 series to 32Meg..... but it's been a while so I could be wrong.

A 2610 or 2611 could do "Router on a Stick" (ROAS) with it's 10Mb Ethernet Interface if you had the the 12.2( 8 ) IP Plus IOS image. But with the last CCNA exam upgrade you also need at least one router to support SDM.

The cheap routers above DO NOT support SDM. The routers below do support SDM. In the old days you needed at least one router that supported ROAS. Today you need one router that supports ROAS and SDM.

The 1721 is a good little $50 desk mount router -- but some people sell the older version that only comes with 16Meg flash. You want the version with 32 Meg Flash -- since the flash CAN'T be upgraded. And you want the POWER BRICK. No Power Brick -- no Sale. And you want either the big and bad 12.4 Enterprise IOS (and the DRAM to run it) or the 12.4T Advanced IP Services (still good for CCNA) for the Zone Based Firewall support for the CCNA:Security Certification.

The funny thing is the rack mount 1760 routers are great little (slow booting) routers that can be upgraded for voice. I've actually seen them sell for less than the 1721 -- but you may need to upgrade the memory. Look for the models with the "32F in white letters within the black square" above the Fast Ethernet port. That means 32Meg Flash that's fixed on the motherboard -- but these do have slot for a Flash upgrade, its just that the 32Meg onboard and the max upgrade give you all the room you need to load Cisco Call Manager Express software if you do some Cisco Voice studies later. You want 32Megs of flash, so the older model with 16Megs of onboard flash is still fine as long as it has been upgraded and has the biggest and baddest and latest and greatest IOS image.

The 2600XM series prices vary depending on the supply and who is cleaning out their warehouse (and which company has recently upgraded all their routers and flooded the market with tons of used 2600XMs).

I got my 2650XM and 2651XM routers (0 is single lan port, 1 is dual lan ports) for less than the slower 2610XM and 2611XM routers were selling for at the time. A lot of people trying to save money chose the cheaper and slower 261xXM routers over the faster 262xXM routers -- and don't even look for the "more expensive and faster" 265xXM routers.

The 265xXM series has models that shipped with 256Meg DRAM and 48Meg Flash -- so look for those (but the 128 DRAM 32Meg FLASH models are fine).

If you can find a 2610XM for $40 -- it's a good deal. But most of the time they'll start around $60 each. Someone may value a 2611XM router more than a a 2620XM routers because of the dual LAN ports versus the single LAN port on the 2620XM.

I paid between $125-$140 for my 2651XM routers and got some of the 2650XM routers for between $60-80 -- but for a while it seems prices shot back up (because the company dumping pallets of them on the market finally ran out). I think I actually saw the 2651XM selling under $100 for a bit. But again -- prices change with time (up and down) so if you do your own research and bid patiently (and only buy from sellers who list the output of a show version command and have a good return policy and fair shipping -- and are recommended by members here with more than 1 or 2 posts ) then you'll score some good deals.

The 4 routers are basically a router you can use as a frame relay switch, 1 hub router and 2 spoke routers.

A 2600XM series with an NM-4A/S is a good frame relay switch option. The NM-8A/S gives you a bigger frame relay switch if you plan to build a bigger (CCIE) lab later. A 2610 router with an NM-4A/S is a CHEAP option. There are 252x models with 4 or 10 serial ports that are nice frame relay switches.

I've used my first 252x series router as a frame relay switch and still used it as a "another router" in my lab via the AUI Ethernet -- but I never tried hooking up one serial port to another serial port and using it as both the frame relay switch and one of the hub or spoke routers at the same time.... but I don't see a reason you can't do it. You can try having one router pull double duty and save the cost of the 4th router -- but since I've always had a dedicated router to use as a frame switch you'd want someone else to confirm they've done this.

Chose your frame relay switch solution, make sure you have a router that does SDM and ROAS, and make sure you have 1 hub router and 3 spoke routers for frame relay.

Toss in 2 $25-50 2950 switches, and a 3rd if you can't find a cheaper $10 2924XL-EN switch.

Then don't forget to figure in the shipping. I've had 5 routers show up in one box for $20 shipping -- so now I'll usually avoid any auction where the shipping cost is greater than $20 (unless it's a really big router) or factor in if I think I can "steal the auction." But I tend not to trust eBay seller who overcharge on shipping. I've bought a $185 3745 router with FREE Shipping.

While you're watching the bidding and vendors on eBay, make sure you check out the Buy-It-Now deals -- and look for free shipping. It's funny when people bid up auction prices beyond what's available Buy-It-Now.

Everyone here has there favorite vendors on eBay -- and some of us will agree on the ones you can trust for reasonable deals (and sometimes great deals) -- so at some point you might want to ask about favorite eBay vendors.

That covers the CCNA.

To start the CCENT -- if you're trying for cheap -- pick up a 1721 router and 2950 switch to get you started on the CCENT. Then page ahead in the books and try to figure out when you'll need more routers (or GNS3) and the rest of the switches.

When I did the CCNA, the INTRO exam portion of the CCNA topics didn't even touch a switch. If trunking (and ROAS) is in ICND2, then you may only need the one switch for the CCENT. You do create a small network in ICND1, so you may need at least 2 routers and some WAN interfaces (or GNS3).

Remember the cheap 2501s have the 2 serial WAN interfaces built in (DB60 connectors). The 1721 router would need a WIC-1T (DB60 connector) or WIC-2T or WIC-2A/S. I think both of those may be Smart Serial Connectors. For each WAN connection, for lab use, it's just easiest a back-to-back cable. There are various combinations of DB60-DB60 and DB60-SmartSerial cables. The DTE/DCE ends don't matter for the DB60-DB60 cable since the connectors are the same -- and probably don't for the DB60-SmartSerial cables in a CCNA lab. But you will have to pick which connector you want to be the DCE end -- and that's the router you set the clock rate on in your lab because you're using a back-to-back cable.

Danieltheman

the hardware he goes into is detailed and im going to have to do some homework on deciding what to buy. All this is scaring me to be honest lol but im at the same time excited that im going to be actually using cisco equipment and having some hands on. Im still a little confused on what to get

impz

think i could summarize that wall of text.

Ideally, you want 4 routers and 3 switches

For the routers,

3x cheap routers such as 2500 series (2501,2513 etc.). note that the 2500 does not support Ipv6 but at the end of the day they are a cheap solution for a ccna lab setup. Of course, if you have a lot of money to spare, you're not limited to buy these. These routers worth around $10 and $5 fo ra transceiver.

1x router that supports ROAS and SDM such as 1721($20-50),2620xm($20-120),2650xm($?) etc. However when you are buying the 1721, make sure that it has 32MB flash -- NOT 16MB. The DRAM could always be upgraded so you wouldn't have to worry there.

For the switches,

3x 2950

For the accesories,

Some DB60-DB60(WIC-1T) cables or DB60-SmartSerial (WIC-2T)
Some Ethernet cables
Some WIC-1T or WIC-2T modules for the routers
A console cable

Danieltheman

ok that looks like a good thanks for the help man

alan2308

impz wrote: »

note that the 2500 does not support Ipv6

Not all IOS versions do, but 12.2T on the 2500 does support it.

There's actually quite a bit that you can do with a pile of 2500's if you're willing to change the IOS back and forth frequently. The only big thing they can't do is ROAS and SDM (though the SDM simulator is probably sufficient for what you need to do for the CCNA).

Just remember though, while the 2500's are cheap, you're probably not going any further than the CCNA with them.

Danieltheman

for now as long as they give me some help with ccna that will be sufficient for me

impz

alan2308 wrote: »

Not all IOS versions do, but 12.2T on the 2500 does support it.

There's actually quite a bit that you can do with a pile of 2500's if you're willing to change the IOS back and forth frequently. The only big thing they can't do is ROAS and SDM (though the SDM simulator is probably sufficient for what you need to do for the CCNA).

Just remember though, while the 2500's are cheap, you're probably not going any further than the CCNA with them.

I stand corrected.

On a side note, my experience with ebay so far shows that getting 2501's at $10 was a bit difficult so I settled for 4 1721's price ranging from 9.99 to 12.99 not including the shipping

Danieltheman

I have read on the faq page that some people use the 2600 routers now instead of the 2500.. would i be better off going for the 2600?

mikej412

Danieltheman wrote: »

I have read on the faq page that some people use the 2600 routers now instead of the 2500.. would i be better off going for the 2600?

Better routers are always better.

That's why I listed "my prices." If you're going to spend $20 on a router, then you may as well go for the better 2600 series -- and look for steals or deals on the even better 1721 and 2600XM routers.

impz wrote: »

On a side note, my experience with ebay so far shows that getting 2501's at $10 was a bit difficult so I settled for 4 1721's price ranging from 9.99 to 12.99 not including the shipping

This is a perfect example of someone doing their shopping.

If you can't get a $10 2501 and you can get a $10 2610 -- get the 2610. And if you can find a 1721 router with 32meg of Flash for that price -- it's a steal. If you find a 1721 router with 16meg of Flash, while the flash can't be upgraded, it's still a deal for a CCNA lab and could still be useful in a CCNP Lab if you upgrade the DRAM and tftp boot a better IOS image.

I bought 2650XM and 2651XM routers because people weren't bidding up the price (or even looking for them on eBay) and they were cheaper than the slower 261xXM and 262xXM routers at the time.

If you're going for deals (or steals) on eBay, make sure the vendor has a return policy -- and preferably a copy of the show version output -- and/or is highly recommended by users here with more than 1 or 2 posts.

Danieltheman

Excellent thanks alot guys, I have a good idea of what to look for in setting up my lab thanks again

impz

mikej412 wrote: »

If you're going for deals (or steals) on eBay, make sure the vendor has a return policy.

Sigh... my 1721's didn't come with refund policy , just got the show version but I'm taking the risks anywayz; the worst that could happen is I lose 100US buying junk. Im at a huge disadvantage even if the seller offers a refund cuz I would have to pay shipping to get it to america which would cost in excess of the amount I would be refunded. Thinking of actually paying 50US for 1 2950 from one of those sellers which offer 1 year warranty for the used cisco stuff

Danieltheman

would the routers or switches come with the ios that I need to be able to use?

mikej412

Danieltheman wrote: »

would the routers or switches come with the ios that I need to be able to use?

That's why you want the output of a show version command -- to see how much memory the router has and if an IOS image is installed, and if so, which one.

The license for the IOS doesn't transfer with the purchase of a used router, but Cisco has NOT been making anyone delete any existing IOS image from the routers. When in doubt -- ask the vendor. If you don't get an answer (and don't already have a router in your lab with a good IOS version/feature set you can use) then pass on the router.