Does it ever "annoy" you that recruiting agencies exist?

I mean, it's like a middle man stealing your money and seems like it can hinder you... They can make you sign an agreement (should you choose to take their position ) stating that you will not work for a "competitor". I've not been aggressively looking for a job, but I have been looking and I'm starting to get annoyed at seeing [company name] staffing... Maybe I should search in places other than on the internet. Can't I just work for the company without facing a per the hour pay cut? Has it always been the thing in IT to be employed by staffing agencies or has this just started in recent years? And when you work for one of those staffing agencies, you'll hear people say things like "You're a contractor and are easy to replace at the call of the "company" "

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WafflesAndRootbeer

CodeBlox wrote: »

I mean, it's like a middle man stealing your money and seems like it can hinder you... They can make you sign an agreement (should you choose to take their position ) stating that you will not work for a "competitor". I've not been aggressively looking for a job, but I have been looking and I'm starting to get annoyed at seeing [company name] staffing... Maybe I should search in places other than on the internet. Can't I just work for the company without facing a per the hour pay cut? Has it always been the thing in IT to be employed by staffing agencies or has this just started in recent years? And when you work for one of those staffing agencies, you'll hear people say things like "You're a contractor and are easy to replace at the call of the "company" "

As I said in the other thread, the outsourcing of IT in many industries and businesses became "the way of the future" when the economy tanked in the last decade and recruiting agencies have become standard in pretty much every kind of job you can think of except manual labor and manufacturing jobs that don't have management roles. It's only going to get worse as more companies move to The Cloud as it will gradually mean a greater emphasis on big and beefy data centers with hosted services and less reliance on internal co-located hardware infrastructure apart from workstations/desktop/mobile clients and networked printers, but many Enterprise-level businesses and organizations won't be able to go there for at least another decade.

powerfool

You aren't forced into going through a middle man for your job search. Personally, I like the idea of having someone else finding opportunities for me. Now if I could only find longer term opportunities that are appealing compared to my current job. That is a matter of the market, however.

NetworkingStudent

CodeBlox wrote: »

I mean, it's like a middle man stealing your money and seems like it can hinder you... They can make you sign an agreement (should you choose to take their position ) stating that you will not work for a "competitor". I've not been aggressively looking for a job, but I have been looking and I'm starting to get annoyed at seeing [company name] staffing... Maybe I should search in places other than on the internet. Can't I just work for the company without facing a per the hour pay cut? Has it always been the thing in IT to be employed by staffing agencies or has this just started in recent years? And when you work for one of those staffing agencies, you'll hear people say things like "You're a contractor and are easy to replace at the call of the "company" "

The current printing company that I work for Outsources temp works to the extreme. We used to just have contractors and contract to hire roles. After being employed as a contractor to hire for six months you were hired; however, fast forward to today and process has completely changed. Now we have 3 temp roles different types of temp roles: temp to hire, seasonal contractor, and a contractor. Honestly, I can’t tell the difference between the different types of temps, nor can I hardly tell the difference between some of the temps and full time employees.

I really feel bad for some of these temps, because some of them have to wait one to two years, before they get hired. Most of the time it’s two years, due to the horrible economy.

I have seen a contractor to hire help desk role hre in mn, but I’m a little sacred to take it. Are you a contract to hire?

CodeBlox

Yeah... When we first took this job we heard nothing but "Yeah do your time for 6 months and let HP know you're interested in coming over" and "As long as your stats are good and you're doing what you're supposed to, good things will happen quickly". I'm past the 6 month mark and I let them know that I was interested in coming over from the sub-contractor. It's 7 1/2 months since I started working on this helpdesk and I feel like I'm trapped there AND with that staffing agency. i gave them a month after I sent the email letting them know I'd like to make the switch from contractor and so did a few others who started with me. Well... They said "we aren't bringing anyone else over right now" AND ******* JUST HIRED A FEW PEOPLE DIRECTLY! Why leave the sub-contractors with lots of experience "sub-Ks" and hire a bunch a newbies instead? My stats are usually top notch and I'm never late or absent from work. Just last week I had to train one of these people who was directly hired ( they sat and shadowed on my calls). They will be doing the exact same thing as me, but for more money... Things work in a backwards way on this helpdesk. Not just the whole hiring an inexperienced person instead of bringing someone like me over and getting another temp to replace me -_-...

WafflesAndRootbeer

CodeBlox wrote: »

Yeah... When we first took this job we heard nothing but "Yeah do your time for 6 months and let HP know you're interested in coming over" and "As long as your stats are good and you're doing what you're supposed to, good things will happen quickly". I'm past the 6 month mark and I let them know that I was interested in coming over from the sub-contractor. It's 7 1/2 months since I started working on this helpdesk and I feel like I'm trapped there AND with that staffing agency. i gave them a month after I sent the email letting them know I'd like to make the switch from contractor and so did a few others who started with me. Well... They said "we aren't bringing anyone else over right now" AND ******* JUST HIRED A FEW PEOPLE DIRECTLY! Why leave the sub-contractors with lots of experience "sub-Ks" and hire a bunch a newbies instead? My stats are usually top notch and I'm never late or absent from work. Just last week I had to train one of these people who was directly hired ( they sat and shadowed on my calls). They will be doing the exact same thing as me, but for more money... Things work in a backwards way on this helpdesk. Not just the whole hiring an inexperienced person instead of bringing someone like me over and getting another temp to replace me -_-...

They don't want to pay the commission to the staffing agency and you will probably never get hired as the cost of hiring you from the agency is a very expensive finder's fee. That is why I hate staffing agencies. More often than not, you will not get anything out of dealing with them other than a mediocre paycheck and a lot of grief.

CodeBlox

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

They don't want to pay the commission to the staffing agency and you will probably never get hired as the cost of hiring you from the agency is a very expensive finder's fee. That is why I hate staffing agencies. More often than not, you will not get anything out of dealing with them other than a mediocre paycheck and a lot of grief.

There's even someone here who says they've been doing the same tier 1 work for the same staffing agency for over a year ( 1 1/2 years). They said it feels like the employer is giving them the run around. Most positions off the helpdesk require you to be employed by the company too. I did not know there was such a thing called a "finders" fee though... Well, I'll use my time ( as I always have been doing here ) to make myself more employable by working on some of the certs I started studying for (ICND2 and MCITP) and hopefully something comes up.

Turgon

CodeBlox wrote: »

I mean, it's like a middle man stealing your money and seems like it can hinder you... They can make you sign an agreement (should you choose to take their position ) stating that you will not work for a "competitor". I've not been aggressively looking for a job, but I have been looking and I'm starting to get annoyed at seeing [company name] staffing... Maybe I should search in places other than on the internet. Can't I just work for the company without facing a per the hour pay cut? Has it always been the thing in IT to be employed by staffing agencies or has this just started in recent years? And when you work for one of those staffing agencies, you'll hear people say things like "You're a contractor and are easy to replace at the call of the "company" "

You should do your own research and attempt to go direct whenever it's practical. But recruitment agencies are a fact of life now. If someone they place screws up, the company can go to the agency for liability. Similarly with thousands of people on the books, a contract with a single agency drives cost per head down for the client and the agency can deliver a wide range of skilled people to meet the companies needs. I have no issue with the good recruiters and find them useful when I want work. But I do have 14 years in which is a different recruitment experience as compared to that endured by noobs.

networker050184

CodeBlox wrote: »

I mean, it's like a middle man stealing your money and seems like it can hinder you... They can make you sign an agreement (should you choose to take their position ) stating that you will not work for a "competitor". I've not been aggressively looking for a job, but I have been looking and I'm starting to get annoyed at seeing [company name] staffing... Maybe I should search in places other than on the internet. Can't I just work for the company without facing a per the hour pay cut? Has it always been the thing in IT to be employed by staffing agencies or has this just started in recent years? And when you work for one of those staffing agencies, you'll hear people say things like "You're a contractor and are easy to replace at the call of the "company" "

Just don't take a job with a staffing agency. I never have and never will for the reasons you listed. There are plenty of companies that hire directly or use recruiters (not staffing in which you work for the agency).

coty24

codeblox wrote: »

i mean, it's like a middle man stealing your money and seems like it can hinder you... They can make you sign an agreement (should you choose to take their position ) stating that you will not work for a "competitor". I've not been aggressively looking for a job, but i have been looking and i'm starting to get annoyed at seeing [company name] staffing... Maybe i should search in places other than on the internet. Can't i just work for the company without facing a per the hour pay cut? Has it always been the thing in it to be employed by staffing agencies or has this just started in recent years? And when you work for one of those staffing agencies, you'll hear people say things like "you're a contractor and are easy to replace at the call of the "company" "

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Daniel333

Never thought they were in the way, knowing I can have a job if I lost my current one in a day is a serious blessing in this world right now.

Sometimes I get annoyed at the phone calls/email, when they know I Have a job. But I try to be nice. Pass job offers along to friends etc.

Oh wait! There was one time at my job before last, where the recruiters were based out of the same building we were. I ran into the guy in the bathroom and he wouldn't stop trying to recruit me for a spot while I was actively in use of the facilities. That really pissed me off.

Bokeh

As a former recruiter many moons ago, I can weigh in on some of these things.

Most recruiters work on a draw against commission, so it is in THEIR best interest to have as many people working temp, temp to perm as possible to help cover that draw every two weeks. They never want to go in the hole and owe the company money.

Now, if there is a permanent position, this is where they can make the big bucks. Usual commission or "finders fee" is 1% per thousand of the first years salary. Now most companies who do pay a commission want to cap that, and say pay no more than 25%. So on a 50k job, the company would pay the agency $12,500. The recruiters commission would vary, but probably would get 15% of that, or $1875.00. The only true way to make money as a recruiter is to become a manager, and you get a cut of everyone who works for you.

Permanent positions do not come along that often from the companies. Also, each state has different regulations when it comes to hiring. When I worked in Ohio, companies could only hire part time, or full time. If they wanted temp or temp to perm, they had to go through an agency. Of course, this was back in the early 90s, so things might have changed.

Recruiting firms that have a no compete are not worried about you working for a company's competitor as much as they are worried about you working for another agency. Most companies that have openings will list them with multiple agencies, and you will see different hourly rates from different agencies for the same position. It is a cut throat business.

snokerpoker

I've never really dealt with them much as they have always contacted me when I already had a full time position. I can't really say I was "annoyed" with them cuz they were just doing their job. With that being said, I've never really dealt with super aggressive ones either. I find them to be great for people looking for their first break in IT and need something to put on their resume. At my last job, one of my co-workers started at the company as a "temp to hire" and it ended up working out for him.

daviddws

If your desperate for work, a staffing agency can help you get a contract. What I would advise is that you only apply to contract to perm positions. Also make sure you get a W2 as anything else will disqualify you for unemployment benefits. If you have exceeded the contract and they still have not made you permanent, look at your contract to see the terms. It sounds like you got a raw deal.

NOC-Ninja

Yeah, I actually have a close friend which is a manager for a govt agency. I asked him why is it like that they are hiring employees through a contract/agency. He said that its because that the govt is trying to support small businesses which made their hands tied down. Its not because they want to go through agency/contract.

However, corporations used agency so that they dont need to deal with an employee when it comes to terminating a him/her. Some are only being brought up for a certain projects with a certain budget.

CodeBlox wrote: »

I mean, it's like a middle man stealing your money and seems like it can hinder you... They can make you sign an agreement (should you choose to take their position ) stating that you will not work for a "competitor". I've not been aggressively looking for a job, but I have been looking and I'm starting to get annoyed at seeing [company name] staffing... Maybe I should search in places other than on the internet. Can't I just work for the company without facing a per the hour pay cut? Has it always been the thing in IT to be employed by staffing agencies or has this just started in recent years? And when you work for one of those staffing agencies, you'll hear people say things like "You're a contractor and are easy to replace at the call of the "company" "

SteveLord

In my state, we have to spend X% a year on what we call "Targeted Small Businesses." More specifically, small businesses owned by minorities.

As far as contractors, well I'd assume it's generally easier/quicker/cheaper than a PTE/FTE whom has a lot more paperwork and liability. Especially considering all the benefits they would be entitled to working with a branch of government.

blargoe

Turgon wrote: »

You should do your own research and attempt to go direct whenever it's practical. But recruitment agencies are a fact of life now. If someone they place screws up, the company can go to the agency for liability. Similarly with thousands of people on the books, a contract with a single agency drives cost per head down for the client and the agency can deliver a wide range of skilled people to meet the companies needs. I have no issue with the good recruiters and find them useful when I want work. But I do have 14 years in which is a different recruitment experience as compared to that endured by noobs.

This has been my experience since I started looking for a position a few months ago. There are some really good recruiters out that that deliver experienced IT talent to the companies that are willing to pay for it. The one I used to land the permanent position that I'm starting in two weeks got 6 months of my salary as his fee (base, no bonus or other incentives, but still some serious cheese).

qwertyiop

It doesn't annoy me asmuch anymore since I currently work for a staffing company as there internal IT Manager and I see what they do every day

Forsaken_GA

It really depends on the agency. The majority of them are as bad as used car salesmen, and if you have anything that's even remotely close to positions they have open, they want to submit you, sometimes without your permission.

I listed my resume on Dice awhile back, and oh my god did the floodgates open. Email and calls from recruiters all over the place. I pulled it pretty quickly.

I just recently changed positions, and I'm currently going through a staffing agency. It's a 3 month contract, and the client company doesn't accept contractors to let them stay with the staffing agency, so I'm fully expecting to go perm once the contract is up.

However, the only reason I took the offer was because it was recommended by a friend of mine. He knew the recruiter, he knew the position they had open, and he knew I was interested in making a move. At the interview with the client, I talked to some of the other guys on the team, and almost all of them had come through one of the two staffing agencies that the recruiter employs, so the company has a very good track record of hiring it's contractors. From other conversations, I've gathered that they prefer to use the staffing agency rather than direct hire, because it's a whole lot easier to let someone who isn't going to work out that way. You simply don't make the offer once the contract is up. That makes it nice and tidy on their end. The paperwork was also refreshing honest, if the client hires me, the staffing agency makes 20% of my first years salary, and that's not a small sum, so it's in the agencies best interest to make sure I go perm.

I have a couple of things working in my favor - I am skilled labor. I was hired for my expertise and my experience. I'm not there just to fill a seat, like with most call center positions. In two weeks, I've already cleaned up several processes that used to take hours to do manually and reduced them down to 10 to 15 minute chunks, improving the efficiency of my entire team. A few other things I've done have brought me to upper managements attention already (in a good way, though lord knows I've had plenty of the bad variety in the past). Apparently there are other teams within the company who are interested in hijacking me, as my manager has taken to reminding me that I'm his guy!

So it's not always bad. Do your homework and do your vetting, and it can work out in your favor. Be especially wary of cold calls from recruiters, though I've known other folk who have had that work out for them as too.

qwertyiop

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

It really depends on the agency. The majority of them are as bad as used car salesmen, and if you have anything that's even remotely close to positions they have open, they want to submit you, sometimes without your permission.

Well I can tell you that they arnt all like that. While walking around at work I always see all the steps that the recruiters and account managers go through to qualify someone for a position. Companies that fish around for keywords and submit anyone even remotely close to a open position tend to get a bad rep especially when working for companies like, at&t, cisco, rsa and raytheon.

Forsaken_GA

qwertyiop wrote: »

Well I can tell you that they arnt all like that. While walking around at work I always see all the steps that the recruiters and account managers go through to qualify someone for a position. Companies that fish around for keywords and submit anyone even remotely close to a open position tend to get a bad rep especially when working for companies like, at&t, cisco, rsa and raytheon.

Yup, I've been varied satisfied with the agency I'm doing business with so far. It was a smooth interview and transition process, there was no bullshit with my first couple paychecks, and it's been an all around pleasurable experience. This isn't my first time contracting, so I'm a little floored. There are good ones out there, it's unfortunate that there's just a whole lot of bad ones around too.

ImTheKing

I had been interviewed by a recruiter a few different times before getting the job I have now (which is direct hire). I would rather go through an employer directly, but the recruiter I dealt with wasn't too aggressive and did give me some useful interview prep.

That said, they never did get me a full interview and I received much better response from direct hire companies.

Everyone

If 3-6 month, or 1-2 year contracts aren't your thing, there's really only one thing you need to learn to say: "Thank you for your interest in me, however I am only seeking direct hire full time/permanent opportunities at this time."

You could also follow that with: "If you have any direct hire full time/permanent positions available, I would be happy to work with you on them."

I've never been interested in contract work, just not my thing. Sounds like it may not be your thing either. I'm not interested in that "contract-to-hire" BS either. I know that whenever I put my resume up on any job site, I'll be flooded with calls for them, often from people who obviously don't speak English as their native language.

If I'm actively looking for a job and I come across a listing that is obviously a staffing firm, I usually just move on to the next listing that catches my eye.

I wouldn't say give up on recruiters completely. The job I had before this one, I was contacted by a small mom and pop (literally) recruiting company. It was a direct hire, so I worked with them on it, and I got the job. I didn't get paid any less than I would have if I had somehow managed to find and apply to the company myself. In fact I accidentally found out I was being paid slightly more than some of my co-workers who had been there 10+ years.

The job I have now I worked with my companies internal recruiter on. That's just how it worked after applying with them directly.

Now if you want to stay in the Defense contractor world (isn't that where you are now?), well things don't get much better. You definitely want to apply directly with the big boys, Lockheed, Northrup, General Dynamics, etc. However you'll always be a contractor getting paid WAY less than what the company is being paid by the Government for you to work there, and there really isn't any way around it. At least in most cases you'll be a full time employee of the defense contractor company and get benefits.

Turgon

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Yup, I've been varied satisfied with the agency I'm doing business with so far. It was a smooth interview and transition process, there was no bullshit with my first couple paychecks, and it's been an all around pleasurable experience. This isn't my first time contracting, so I'm a little floored. There are good ones out there, it's unfortunate that there's just a whole lot of bad ones around too.

Part of the contracting game is to build positive relationships with the good agencies, as well as seek them out. Getting renewed is the objective and if you are a reliable, low maintenence model contractor as I have been described in the past, when the plumb roles come in you will be considered. Avoid adversarial relationships with clients and agencies when contracting. People talk.

Turgon

blargoe wrote: »

This has been my experience since I started looking for a position a few months ago. There are some really good recruiters out that that deliver experienced IT talent to the companies that are willing to pay for it. The one I used to land the permanent position that I'm starting in two weeks got 6 months of my salary as his fee (base, no bonus or other incentives, but still some serious cheese).

I have had a good career to date and largely that has been down to finding good recruiters who put me in touch with the companies I did work for. A lot of people moan about dumb HR departments. I have news for them, most HR departments are underresourced and have to find people for all kinds of roles not only IT ones. They have payroll hassles and everything else never mind hiring!

There are good recruiters out there, and when you find them and they put your forward, do a good job for them. They have a reputation too. Also, the recruitment circle talks, so play nicely. As for fees, they often dont get it until the hire passes a qualifying period. Also a good recruiter who vouches for you and helps you land a good job is worth it. When they vouch for you, if you let the client down, you will doubtless get another job elsewhere, but you just made that decent recruiters job harder with that company.

eansdad

The biggest issue I have with them is that they post for openings they don't have. I've seen positions from where I am on recruiting sites that have never been open. I was contacted by no less then 20 different agencies about the same position almost 2 hrs away. You would think someone would have developed a system on the job boards (dice, monster, careerbuilder etc...) that would only show people within a certain area. Times are hard but I don't think anyone is going to drive 2hrs and pay a $5 toll when they are offering only $15/hr.

Turgon

eansdad wrote: »

The biggest issue I have with them is that they post for openings they don't have. I've seen positions from where I am on recruiting sites that have never been open. I was contacted by no less then 20 different agencies about the same position almost 2 hrs away. You would think someone would have developed a system on the job boards (dice, monster, careerbuilder etc...) that would only show people within a certain area. Times are hard but I don't think anyone is going to drive 2hrs and pay a $5 toll when they are offering only $15/hr.

They have been doing that for years. 10 years ago I applied for a job posted that actually didn't exist but it was posted to harvest CVs. Get over it.

qwertyiop

eansdad wrote: »

The biggest issue I have with them is that they post for openings they don't have. I've seen positions from where I am on recruiting sites that have never been open. I was contacted by no less then 20 different agencies about the same position almost 2 hrs away. You would think someone would have developed a system on the job boards (dice, monster, careerbuilder etc...) that would only show people within a certain area. Times are hard but I don't think anyone is going to drive 2hrs and pay a $5 toll when they are offering only $15/hr.

Those job boards have a system that allows them to search for candidates within a certain mile range.

MAC_Addy

I actually landed my first IT manager role by going through an agency. I called them up after 3 months of working here to thank them for all their help.

CodeBlox

Right now, it's like they're just "keeping seats filled" and all the while, I have only made one ( small ) move for the same pay. In my first say, 4 to 5 months, I learned a lot. This was just from working there dealing with all the problems. Now, I find that the only learning I do is between the calls when I'm studying for some cert or doing homework ( which is the one good thing ). I'm sure I represent the staffing agency really well. Great attendance, great stats, just overall great work ethic. The only time we really hear from this staffing agency though is when it's an attendance issue ( I've never missed work and I've only had one time where I was late, out of my control ). I am a defense contractor at this time and I am grateful. I mean, thats a bunch of helpdesk experience I didn't have afterall. It just bugs me these days that I make $12.50 to do a really good job ( Like resolving a customers issue for a ticket which got escalated instead of just "providing a status" and ending the call.) while the person next to me makes $17.00 doing the exact same thing. Seems like it'd be pointless to bring it to anyones attention as others have done so. Falls on deaf ears around here.

bermovick

qwertyiop wrote: »

Those job boards have a system that allows them to search for candidates within a certain mile range.

That surprises me as most of my calls/emails are in the Chicago area (about 4 hours drive)