What is the hardest topic to study for CCNA?

Here's a poll mainly to see on which topics we should focus in our practice exams and TechNotes. The options correspond pretty much with the exam objectives.

Johan

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c-nap

SUBNETTING is easily the most difficult part of the CCNA. Router config is just the fun part of the CCNA. Knowing the protocols is almost like knowing your IRQ's and DMA's for the A+, it's not complicated. I voted for Access Lists since subnetting wasn't an option. Access Lists are a pain to maintain and configure, not exactly difficult

squawk1500

For some reason subnetting and access-list came natural to me. I used Todd Lammle's CCNA Deluxe Edition chapter on subnetting to learn it. The way I learned it was by subnetting class C addresses for a week straight and writing every little detail on paper. The way I started was by subneting a class C 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.192. Subnetting is hard to learn but very much worth it when you do. My biggest problem with the 640-801 is ISDN. I know what a NT1 is and R reference point stuff like that, I'm just failing to see the big picture. I'm taking the exam this coming Monday and my nightmare is seening an ISDN simulator on the exam.

evanderburg

I think subnetting is the hardest, especially since the guides say you must be able to do it in 60 seconds. Since subnetting was not an option, I chose WAN technologies.

Webmaster

I should have added Subnetting as an option indeed. But if you think subnetting is the hardest part, you are not sufficiently prepared for the CCNA. It's a 'basic' skill when it comes to IP networks and routing.

the guides say you must be able to do it in 60 seconds

Those guides are correct. And if you practiced enough, it should be very doable. There's only a fairly limited number of possible subnet masks and corresponding values (number of subnets and hosts), which you can memorize if you don't want to calculate them over and over again.

wootwoot

How about the simulations. I have failed 2 times so far and neither time I have been able to get the simulation working. The first time I got an 800 and the 2nd time a 737. I am going to take it again at the end of this month and don't know what I can do to beef up for the simulation section.

AceAll

I think WAN protocol is tough because we have to memorize lot of things and ACL is hard to understand.

evanderburg

The number of hosts and subnets does not give me trouble. It is when I try to find which hosts are on the same network or which addresses are usable. I am still taking a bit too long. Math was never my strong point. I make simple mistakes when I am under time pressure.

johnnynodough

AceAll wrote:

I think WAN protocol is tough because we have to memorize lot of things and ACL is hard to understand.

True, but you definetely cant understand ACLs if you dont have a good grasp on subnetting.

kadshah

just curious why was subnetting left out?

Webmaster

kadshah wrote:

just curious why was subnetting left out?

Because subnetting is part of the Routed Protocols option, it's an integrated topic of IP addressing. The poll options are based on the previous CCNA exam (640-607), but still appropriate for the new CCNA exams though.

kadshah

heh! just noticed my question was already asked by someone else.

Webmaster

heh! just noticed I answered that question before.

elcaminoguy

I think WAN protocols are hard because outside of a simulator it's hard to get hands on experience with them. Sure you can get a DTE/DCE cable between two routers but they won't do frame relay or ISDN. At least I haven't figured out how to do that with a serial interface. That and ISDN drives me insane with all the interface types and switch types.

As for subnetting I found a great book on the internet that did wonders for me. I can practically do them in my head now because of it.

THe book is called "Neural Technologies Corp IP Subnetting guide"
and in spite of its rather homebrew looks I found it invaluable.

Its at this link..

http://nntek.com/ip.htm

elcaminoguy

Is NAT rolled into the access lists section of your sample questions or is it a separate part?

2lazybutsmart

do you have three routers? if you do then you can configure frame relay using DTE/DCE cables, you just need one router to be a frame relay switch.

You can also do it with two routers, but then you wouldn't have anything to "relay" back and forth

, or would you?

2lbs.

elcaminoguy

I got some help from "ed_the_lad" to do it with two. THat's what I have to work with and one of them is a 1005 with IOS 11.3 which is as high as it can go with its hardware config. So there's some limitations there but the 2611 makes for a great FR switch.

cisco_trouble

In my opinion its ISDN technologies and configurations. The rest of the CCNA is straight forward.

mikeyoung

Subnetting is like "snatching the pebble," Grasshopper. I worked on it for weeks and I just couldn't get it and then one day, I woke up and you couldn't give a subnetting problem I couldn't do. I was an expert. Of course, I never have to figure it out in my head in real life, so I have forgotten it all again.

I think routing protocols were the hardest for me to learn at the time I was studying, but I understand them fairly well now.

mtlbenz

man the access-lists are something i understand but i still can't perfectly implement them

petedude

mishoo wrote:

hiye

is subnetting is a part of ccna paper :

can any one have the outline for the paper ..

mishal

Todd Lammle's stuff on subnetting is fantastic. Others have posted resources here that are quite useful.

Once you get subnetting down, you forget how hard it was. That's why I picked WAN technologies when I voted this poll. Besides, you can learn parts of subnetting for other exams before you study the CCNA (i.e. MCSE, Linux+), so it's not like it's a technology restricted to Cisco studies.

To me, it seems like Cisco covers so much and has the bar set so high, that the CCNA is almost as much work as the MCSA. What do y'all think?

evanderburg

I had difficulty with subnetting when I was preparing for the CCNA because of the time pressure but after practicing for a while I am now able to determine which addresses are on which networks from a list of 10 addresses in 30 seconds or so. I just kept doing it and timing myself and I kept finding shortcuts that I missed before. I check my answers afterwards with a calculator to make sure they are right and everything works.

Depending on your background, other topics might be easier or harder. Some may go into CCNA with a good background on WANS or ACLs. I never had any trouble with the concepts because I was already familiar with them. My students have some difficulty with the concepts but mainly the math gets them for subnetting until I they learn the proper method and practice it a lot.

I think many Cisco folks would agree with you about CCNA and MCSA but I would disagree. The CCNA did not give me any grief. I'll let you know about CCSP though when I get to it. hehe.

ciscoguy

I would say in my opinion - subnetting.

Jiggsaww

me i voted WAN protocols.......cause frame relay alone 2 me needs 2 be on a seperate test.......

Wullie

I found VLSM quite tricky to get the hang of to begin with, but once my teacher helped me along with it - I don't see it much of a problem anymore - at the mo, I'd say the ACLs are the hardest part for me - easy to think of them in my head, but harder to get down on paper.

Going to play around with them in class a bit more so that I can get the hang of them for the ICND exam

HELLZxPHADER

Wullie wrote:

I found VLSM quite tricky to get the hang of to begin with, but once my teacher helped me along with it - I don't see it much of a problem anymore - at the mo, I'd say the ACLs are the hardest part for me - easy to think of them in my head, but harder to get down on paper.

Going to play around with them in class a bit more so that I can get the hang of them for the ICND exam

think of vlsm as routing protocol that suports multiple subnet mask networks. The ones that do support this are Rip version 2, ospf, and eigrp. The actual tests will usually focus mainly on ospf and eigrp. To me ospf and eigrp are the ones to study the most-they are the important ones. You should also have a understanding of the non vlsm routing protocols rip and igrp, research all 5 of them, but study ospf and eigrp more than the rest.

Acl was a tricky one too, but once you practice enough acl you will starting doing them faster, understanding them better. Keep in mnd the general rules that apply to ccna type questions.

Standard acl should be placed nearest the destination you are trying to filter.

Extended acl should be placed near the source you are trying to filter

When you configure acls in a list, remember to place the most specific ones first, least specific ones last. And dont forget about the invisible implicit deny after any acl list.

cooldash87

yea .. i guesss WAN technologies can only be clarified in CCNP ... it shouldnt be a part of CCNA

Danman32

evanderburg wrote:

The number of hosts and subnets does not give me trouble. It is when I try to find which hosts are on the same network or which addresses are usable. I am still taking a bit too long. Math was never my strong point. I make simple mistakes when I am under time pressure.

That's my problem too. I understand the subnet concept, but I make stupid mistakes, and I am not fast with basic math.

I thought I would need to take advantage of the basic calculator in some of the MCSE exams, but I didn't need it. With CCNA, I sure could have used it, but I suppose with the time crunch, I was better off not having it and learning the patterns.

As for subnetting with different classes, focus on getting good with class C. If you have to subnet back to class B to find number of hosts, keep multiplying 256 by 2 for each bit in the host in the 3rd octet. For those who have installed/worked with memory on IBM XPs might remember the patterns: 512/1024/2048/4096/8192/16384/32768/65536 (I remember these last two from Apple II and Atari 800 days)

Webmaster

<OT>

Danman32 wrote:

(I remember these last two from Apple II and Atari 800 days)

my first computer was an Atari 600XL, later upgraded to 800 XL. It was actually my older brother's computer, and he wouldn't let me 'play' with it (I was 8 ), which only led to me wanting it even more of course. So when he and my parents were asleep, I sneaked out of bed, turned on the Atari, and started pressing keys. We had a book with code examples, for games like pong, which eventually I started changing and made objects appear in alternating colors. I didn't 'really' understand what I was doing, but it worked and it was a lot of fun! Sometimes it feels I'm still sitting behind the same 'keyboard'

I can still hear the sound of loading games from the tape drive and the large metal buttons atmy fingertips... I think it's still somewhere hidden at my parent's place actually.

www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8BITS/1200xl/600.html

</OT>

Danman32

Webmaster wrote:

<OT>

Danman32 wrote:

(I remember these last two from Apple II and Atari 800 days)

my first computer was an Atari 600XL, later upgraded to 800 XL. It was actually my older brother's computer, and he wouldn't let me 'play' with it (I was 8 ), which only led to me wanting it even more of course. So when he and my parents were asleep, I sneaked out of bed, turned on the Atari, and started pressing keys. We had a book with code examples, for games like pong, which eventually I started changing and made objects appear in alternating colors. I didn't 'really' understand what I was doing, but it worked and it was a lot of fun! Sometimes it feels I'm still sitting behind the same 'keyboard' I can still hear the sound of loading games from the tape drive and the large metal buttons atmy fingertips... I think it's still somewhere hidden at my parent's place actually.

www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8BITS/1200xl/600.html

</OT>

Ah this would be a good topic for Off Topic forum. My 2nd PC was a 130XE (or was it XL?). Rember M.U.L.E.? It had a 'card' that said someone bought your anchient atari for a museum. I laughed then. I am not laughing now. The 800 was a great machine. I had a tech manual I bought for $25 that told you EVERYTHING about it, from the schematic, datasheets of the chips, and even the sourcecode of the OS.

pr3d4t0r

Frame Relay, ISDN,DDR...