University of Florida Closing Computer Science Department

University of Florida Eliminates Computer Science Department, Increases Athletic Budgets. Hmm. - Forbes

Interesting move....

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Roguetadhg

Yay entertainment over increasing science!

Im sure whomever thought of the plan suggested that those persons goto the new florida polytech college instead.

Wasn't University of Florida mostly a party school anyways?

Edited: Yep - It's the top party school. http://www.lovetoknow.com/top10/party-colleges.html

RobertKaucher

I have posted this before: The Secret Weapon of American Science | Michio Kaku | Big Think

As he argues, the H1B is not a sustainable strategy to keep the US in the lead. The reasons why college is the remedial high school for so many Americans is the far too controversial for this forum.

the_Grinch

I'm still pretty young (26) and I always recall teachers at the various levels saying this "when you get to x, they won't baby you like we do now." That went from elementary to college, in college I had friends who did nothing and still passed. But in this case the education system is as much to blame as the administration that allowed this to happen. Kids don't like math and science because it's very rare to get a teacher who is even a little excited about the subjects themselves. Being good at math, doesn't translate into being good at teaching math. Also, especially in computer science, I think you find they teach high level math that has no practical application on what a student will be doing in the real world. Final thought on the topic, my friend had a professor who once said "if you want to see dictatorship in America, you can look no further then the local college campus".

tpatt100

Not trying to generalize too much but maybe foreign students excel here because of the immigrant mentality. You know you are going to have an uphill battle so your going to try twice as hard.

Novalith478

the_Grinch wrote: »

I'm still pretty young (26) and I always recall teachers at the various levels saying this "when you get to x, they won't baby you like we do now." That went from elementary to college, in college I had friends who did nothing and still passed. But in this case the education system is as much to blame as the administration that allowed this to happen. Kids don't like math and science because it's very rare to get a teacher who is even a little excited about the subjects themselves. Being good at math, doesn't translate into being good at teaching math. Also, especially in computer science, I think you find they teach high level math that has no practical application on what a student will be doing in the real world. Final thought on the topic, my friend had a professor who once said "if you want to see dictatorship in America, you can look no further then the local college campus".

I agree with the first part. I remember when I was in elementary school, in grade 8 they said "high school is going to be so hard, there are no second chances." High school was then another version of elementary school with more subjects and hotter girls. In grade 12 they said "university is so hard, you will drop out by Christmas." I arrive at University and it's basically like high school, just again: more subjects, more freedom, and hotter girls.

The thing you said about teaching vs. being good at it is so true. In high school they would hire teachers with PhD's or MA's who excelled in their area of study. Only problem is, they didn't know how to teach their way out of a paper bag.

Roguetadhg

Teaching Math and Science, My grand father, HS Algebra Teacher said he's run into times where he's been shot down with doing experiments to make math practical. He understood that if a student can't make a real connection between what they're studying to what they're interested in - they won't be interested in math. They'll be interested in other things - the opposite sex.

There's more than one weak chain in the educational system than just administration, or teachers. Parents can not be left as not a part of the chain either. I've seen parents down here in SC that would rather invest in painting their cars than invest in a basic computer and internet to do school work.. this is light of the school refusing internet and school books to take home.

If we really want to turn around education and science as a whole, we'll need to change priorities as a society.

Entertainment Vs Science? The choice is obivious: Entertainment.

NetworkVeteran

Novalith478 wrote: »

II arrive at University and it's basically like high school, just again: more subjects, more freedom, and hotter girls.

My major had a high drop out rate. I suppose it was similar to high school--there were people aiming for challenging degrees who had less play time (but usually found time for a hobby or two and of course girls), and there were people tackling lesser degrees who had more play time. Usually people didn't drop out all together, they just dropped out from the challenging degrees. I would add, yes! Hot ladies, better activities, freedom, and very few who didn't want to be there.

the_Grinch

My statistics professor in college equated most of it to poker and gambling. Various problems were written to workout odds, how much to bet, etc. Didn't help me a whole lot as I don't play poker much, but at least it was something tangible I could wrap my head around. Probably the only reason I did well in the class

. I do have to agree that the parents need to be more involved, though I don't agree that the school should provide laptops for the students to take home. I have yet to see a study that proved that having a laptop allowed a student to do better in class. I've sat through enough college level courses to see that if you had a laptop, you were on Facebook or playing games...

Concerned Water

the_Grinch wrote: »

My statistics professor in college equated most of it to poker and gambling. Various problems were written to workout odds, how much to bet, etc. Didn't help me a whole lot as I don't play poker much, but at least it was something tangible I could wrap my head around.

That's funny.

RobertKaucher

I think the issues we face start in the public Primary and Secondary schools. We all grew up with the silly notion that we can be anything we want to be and that the idea of following your "dream" is the only noble path worth following. I just think that is foolish to s certain degree. The fact is I absolutely LOVE historical linguistics and have a book shelf dedicated to general/historical linguistics and another to Celtic languages (modern and ancient) in my personal library. But I also know I would never be able to make a real living doing anything related to that field without being tied to an academic institution were the struggle for money, jobs, and tenure is certainly going to be high. I'd so much rather work in something that I enjoy and can be successful at. The idea that I might have a one and only career that will ever fulfill me that I must follow lest I become a forgotten waste of a man who resents the world and what was taken from me is as stupid as the idea that there is only one woman created to make me happy and to fill the girl shaped void in my heart.

People who get a degree in Medieval Italian Literature with an Emphasis on the Development of the Gerund as the Verbal Noun from Proto-Romance to Modern Italian Dialects should NOT be surprised that they cannot get a job. I think our issue is that we have a huge gap between the practical skills that schools should be teaching and what they actually are. How many of us were taught critical thinking, formal logic, and probability in High School? I know I wasn't. But those are the major, broad skills that I use on a daily basis for my work. The reason that will never be popular in America is because it weaponizes the minds of young adults and inoculates them against the garbage that media like FOX and MSNBC try to sell us. Parents, teachers, and other adults don't like it when their 14 year-olds can look at the stupid things they say and recognize that they are in fact stupid.

the_Grinch

RobertKaucher wrote: »

I think the issues we face start in the public Primary and Secondary schools. We all grew up with the silly notion that we can be anything we want to be and that the idea of following your "dream" is the only noble path worth following. I just think that is foolish to s certain degree. The fact is I absolutely LOVE historical linguistics and have a book shelf dedicated to general/historical linguistics and another to Celtic languages (modern and ancient) in my personal library. But I also know I would never be able to make a real living doing anything related to that field without being tied to an academic institution were the struggle for money, jobs, and tenure is certainly going to be high. I'd so much rather work in something that I enjoy and can be successful at. The idea that I might have a one and only career that will ever fulfill me that I must follow lest I become a forgotten waste of a man who resents the world and what was taken from me is as stupid as the idea that there is only one woman created to make me happy and to fill the girl shaped void in my heart.

People who get a degree in Medieval Italian Literature with an Emphasis on the Development of the Gerund as the Verbal Noun from Proto-Romance to Modern Italian Dialects should NOT be surprised that they cannot get a job. I think our issue is that we have a huge gap between the practical skills that schools should be teaching and what they actually are. How many of us were taught critical thinking, formal logic, and probability in High School? I know I wasn't. But those are the major, broad skills that I use on a daily basis for my work. The reason that will never be popular in America is because it weaponizes the minds of young adults and inoculates them against the garbage that media like FOX and MSNBC try to sell us. Parents, teachers, and other adults don't like it when their 14 year-olds can look at the stupid things they say and recognize that they are in fact stupid.

Well said. I've often said in my group of friends that we need to stop telling our kids you can be whatever you want. Unfortunately, that is an idea deeply routed in fantasy land. You'll do what pays the bills and more then likely won't like it very much. I don't know how true it is, but they always said that in Germany you were given a test that decided whether you would go to college and also tell you what you should go for. If it's true, I wish they had that when I was in high school.

Looking back I wish I had joined the Army like I planned out of high school. I had no direction at the time and it would have saved me a ton of cash in the long run. Too late to change it now though...

veritas_libertas

RobertKaucher wrote: »

People who get a degree in Medieval Italian Literature with an Emphasis on the Development of the Gerund as the Verbal Noun from Proto-Romance to Modern Italian Dialects should NOT be surprised that they cannot get a job. I think our issue is that we have a huge gap between the practical skills that schools should be teaching and what they actually are. How many of us were taught critical thinking, formal logic, and probability in High School? I know I wasn't. But those are the major, broad skills that I use on a daily basis for my work. The reason that will never be popular in America is because it weaponizes the minds of young adults and inoculates them against the garbage that media like FOX and MSNBC try to sell us. Parents, teachers, and other adults don't like it when their 14 year-olds can look at the stupid things they say and recognize that they are in fact stupid.

I, for one, welcome our media overlords. How dare you question them! You know that you are either for CNN or Fox, and to think that either of them is wrong is outrageous! LOL

Seriously though, it seems like my generation and younger don't like to put forth the effort to research beyond Wikipedia and Google. I mean just look at some of the questions we get on this forum! A simple Google search would provide the answer, and that is not say we don't like to help each other.

Robert, no doubt you and I are polar opposites when it comes to political affiliations, but we both agree that their is a serious lack of common sense and logic being taught.

Degree does not equal job. If so I would I be teaching American History and Political Science

@Grinch: Deeply routed? You, sir, have spent too much time studying for the CCNA...

the_Grinch

Um I'm going to go with I meant to put that there lol!

onesaint

RobertKaucher wrote: »

People who get a degree in Medieval Italian Literature with an Emphasis on the Development of the Gerund as the Verbal Noun from Proto-Romance to Modern Italian Dialects should NOT be surprised that they cannot get a job. I think our issue is that we have a huge gap between the practical skills that schools should be teaching and what they actually are. How many of us were taught critical thinking, formal logic, and probability in High School? I know I wasn't. But those are the major, broad skills that I use on a daily basis for my work. The reason that will never be popular in America is because it weaponizes the minds of young adults and inoculates them against the garbage that media like FOX and MSNBC try to sell us. Parents, teachers, and other adults don't like it when their 14 year-olds can look at the stupid things they say and recognize that they are in fact stupid.

I'll take book recommendations for my 15 year old for the critical thinking, formal logic, and probability. We don't watch much TV and frankly, anything I can do to better prepare my children for the future economy of the West, I'm more than happy to push upon them.

The problems of America's decline in math and science is wide and varied and we can theorize and speculate till we're blue in the face. Yet, I think the only real option for immediate resolution we have is to better prepare our children on an individual level. As it stands, in my most pessimistic outlook, parents are the only advocates left for their children, and society at large has no interest in developing a future other than that of a consumer.

We can safely rule out that the gov's interest in schooling our children. That is evident by the lack of funding, less schooling, and constant reduction of standards to better meet the "ability" our the students. The pass / no pass is gone and the pass / pass with low marks is in. So kids don't get a reality check and good foundation, they get to move up with lowered expectation of their ability.

I'm dealing with this right now and let me say, it's tough. I expect my children to be able to achieve what any child in China, Germany, Japan, or India can. Yet the school system they are in constantly promotes lowered expectations, lack of motivation after failed attempts, reduction in curriculum offerings, etc. which I have to combat and supplement with motivation, reward / repercussion, and large investment to counter the school's lack of ability (mind you investment in my kids, is my job). The reason is not so important, the outcome on the other hand, is.

The average grade in my daughters 9th grade algebra 1 class is 36.8%. As of this morning she has a 76.2 which is one of the higher grades in the class. You'd think a different approach to delivery might be called for or holding kids back to better ensure a fundamental understanding. What happens for lower marks? The kids get an "F" and moved on to the next grade level. So long as their percentage is over 45-50, they are moved up. All this information at our finger tips and still no way to ensure a child can grasp it. Says something for delivery, doesn't it?

On a lighter note, we should really be pushing education from people like this:
9.999... reasons that .999... = 1 - YouTube

Forsaken_GA

Forbes has managed to successfully ***** the internet.

First thing - SEC schools get no state funds for their athletic programs. They are entirely self sufficient from their own activities (ticket sales, tv contracts, etc). Most schools operate their athletic departments at a loss. Florida is one of the few who do not.

Second - http://www.eng.ufl.edu/files/2012/04/Budget-Cut-Plan-2012.pdf

Go read that. And figure out what's happening with the CISE department. It's being restructured, not eliminated. The UF folks didn't wake up one day and say 'you know, it'd be a really good idea to just cut those computer nerds out entirely'.

Long and the short of it is that the teachers are going to bear the brunt of the funding cuts, either by direct loss of position, or increased workload.

veritas_libertas

Score another one for the media blowing things out of proportion. I tried looking for that information on UF's web site. Thanks.

the_Grinch

Thanks for setting the record straight!

ptilsen

Best synopsis:

Under this proposed plan, all of the Computer Engineering Degree programs, BS, MS and PhD,
would be moved from the Computer & Information Science and Engineering Dept. to the
Electrical and Computer Engineering Dept. along with most of the advising staff. This move
would allow us to support these degree programs using the existing faculty support staff in
other depts. Roughly half of the faculty would be offered the opportunity to move to ECE, BME
or ISE. These faculty would continue to support the graduate and research mission in the
Computer Engineering degree track. The choice of which faculty and which departments will be
made based on fit with the research program and with the receiving departments. Staff
positions in CISE which are currently supporting research and graduate programs would be
eliminated. The activities currently covered by TAs would be reassigned to faculty and the TA
budget for CISE would be eliminated. The faculty remaining in CISE would then focus their
efforts on teaching and advising students in the existing Computer Science BS and MS degree
programs, offered through both COE and CLAS. Their assignments would change to reflect this
new educational mission with sole focus on delivering quality education for students in these
degree programs. Any faculty member who wishes to stay in CISE may do so, but with a revised
assignment focused on teaching and advising.

higherho

onesaint wrote: »

.

The average grade in my daughters 9th grade algebra 1 class is 36.8%. As of this morning she has a 76.2 which is one of the higher grades in the class. You'd think a different approach to delivery might be called for or holding kids back to better ensure a fundamental understanding. What happens for lower marks? The kids get an "F" and moved on to the next grade level. So long as their percentage is over 45-50, they are moved up. All this information at our finger tips and still no way to ensure a child can grasp it. Says something for delivery, doesn't it?

On a lighter note, we should really be pushing education from people like this:
9.999... reasons that .999... = 1 - YouTube

That video really makes me love math more

Wish they taught it like that back in my high school. I liked math but was bored in class. I just told my wife how I used to use Algebra one to figure out possibilities for my Diablo 2 character back in 9th grade. Of course I skipped some school for Diablo too lol. Either way, how you teach is a big factor. I liked my Algebra 1 teacher for how he taught but I hated my other math courses because the teachers were boring. Now going to grad school I am pumped to take higher math courses that I never took before.

Forsaken_GA

the_Grinch wrote: »

Thanks for setting the record straight!

The funny thing is, that PDF is linked in the Forbes article. Folks just don't bother to click through and check the sources anymore.

Forsaken_GA

higherho wrote: »

That video really makes me love math more Wish they taught it like that back in my high school.

Check out the Khan Academy videos. It's actually pretty damn good educational material. If I were to opt for home schooling a student, I would definitely use it's material as a source.

erpadmin

onesaint wrote: »

I'll take book recommendations for my 15 year old for the critical thinking, formal logic, and probability. We don't watch much TV and frankly, anything I can do to better prepare my children for the future economy of the West, I'm more than happy to push upon them.

Aside from Khan Academy, there are a lot of programs probably offered in your community colleges that will let high school kids take college-level courses, especially the STEM courses. The only pre-college courses available for me were SAT prep courses.....

There's also a bunch of resources on the Internet that should be able to assist you and your daughter. The biggest resource your daughter has though...is you.

My dad, with his 9th grade education, was involved in making sure I did my homework (my mom more so...) They didn't have to understand the Battle of Hastings to know that I needed to study for it. I think a lot of parents don't realize that (and I'm not saying you're one of them.....but there are a lot of parents who are not active in their kids schooling.)

higherho

RobertKaucher wrote: »

I have posted this before: The Secret Weapon of American Science | Michio Kaku | Big Think

As he argues, the H1B is not a sustainable strategy to keep the US in the lead. The reasons why college is the remedial high school for so many Americans is the far too controversial for this forum.

I do admit the high school I went two was around 350 (according to PSSA scores) in our state and hardly put any effort into high school (except band). I grew up fast in my last two years and decided to go to college. Now because of my lack of effort and how I found school boring. it took me an extra year in college to catch up but I'm glad I did go and improve myself. Would my high school self have changed if the area was better, school system, or my home life? I think so.

higherho

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Check out the Khan Academy videos. It's actually pretty damn good educational material. If I were to opt for home schooling a student, I would definitely use it's material as a source.

I did check out a few. Very good videos!

onesaint

higherho wrote: »

That video really makes me love math more Wish they taught it like that back in my high school. I liked math but was bored in class. I just told my wife how I used to use Algebra one to figure out possibilities for my Diablo 2 character back in 9th grade. Of course I skipped some school for Diablo too lol. Either way, how you teach is a big factor. I liked my Algebra 1 teacher for how he taught but I hated my other math courses because the teachers were boring. Now going to grad school I am pumped to take higher math courses that I never took before.

I love her whole youtube stream of videos. It's exciting to see such creativity put into math, because it's there to begin with.

Best classes I ever had were History I & 10 both with very avid professors. It really made the classes enjoyable for me. I think in another thread it was Forsaken who said delivery is everything and it's so very true.

erpadmin wrote: »

Aside from Khan Academy, there are a lot of programs probably offered in your community colleges that will let high school kids take college-level courses, especially the STEM courses. The only pre-college courses available for me were SAT prep courses.....

There's also a bunch of resources on the Internet that should be able to assist you and your daughter. The biggest resource your daughter has though...is you. My dad, with his 9th grade education, was involved in making sure I did my homework (my mom more so...) They didn't have to understand the Battle of Hastings to know that I needed to study for it. I think a lot of parents don't realize that (and I'm not saying you're one of them.....but there are a lot of parents who are not active in their kids schooling.)

Agreed whole heartedly. In today's world parents (and family) are the only advocate a child has to excel. It happens far too often that parenting is put off on our institutions as oposed to being handled in the home like it should be. Once it seems that kids can do the smallest thing for themselves, some parents seem to shift focus elsewhere. Not hand holding mind you, but guidance is continually required.

There are a good number of resources we are familiar with on the net, although many are lacking in any sort of structure. We've had her attend a CC for STEM courses for summer school, but they can be quite expensive. Unfortunately, summer school in our public schools is on its way to being a thing of the past. Still, I'm always on the look out for good material to try and enable her to be the best she can.

JockVSJock

RobertKaucher wrote: »

I have posted this before: The Secret Weapon of American Science | Michio Kaku | Big Think

As he argues, the H1B is not a sustainable strategy to keep the US in the lead. The reasons why college is the remedial high school for so many Americans is the far too controversial for this forum.

I would love to talk more about this, since this subject is very near and dear to my heart: education.

I went to college, because there is peer pressure to go from everyone and it is a norm that if you want a GOOD job, you have to go to college.

Now that I have two degrees under my belt and a few certifications, I'm basically competing with people who have no college for entry level jobs, like suck-ass IT help desk jobs. I can't get a better job, so now I'm in the US Army. When I went to grad school, the woman oversold the program and said I would be doing all this hands-on work and have all of theses companies beating on my door wanting to hire me. Total hype...

We are starting to see alot of backlash against college (also look at my signature).

Education Revolution, Education Evolution - A podcast, You Tube channel, and on-line community dedicated to r e d e f i n i n g " e d u c a t i o n "

Peter Schiff exposes college scam - Interviews Kelli Space (1 of 2) - YouTube

John Stossel - Is College A Rip-off? - YouTube

- Why College is the Biggest Scam in America Today! - YouTube

People are figuring out why spend all of that money and get nothing in return. I'm lucky, I lived below my means and worked my way thru and had no student loan debt coming out of it. If I had to do it over again, I would not go to college. A total waste of time and money.

Also, lets start talking about home-schooling or unschooling. Lets let people know they have an alternative to public education or re-education, as I like to call it.

tpatt100

I don't think a college degree is worthless. If you didn't have to take loans, you got grants or your parents paid for it, or you worked and paid for it on your own then you really didn't lose much except time. If people are getting degrees and not getting what they expected then you have to look at other things besides the degree to find what the problem is. High expectations are usually never satisfied.

RobertKaucher

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Forbes has managed to successfully ***** the internet.

First thing - SEC schools get no state funds for their athletic programs. They are entirely self sufficient from their own activities (ticket sales, tv contracts, etc). Most schools operate their athletic departments at a loss. Florida is one of the few who do not.

Second - http://www.eng.ufl.edu/files/2012/04/Budget-Cut-Plan-2012.pdf

Go read that. And figure out what's happening with the CISE department. It's being restructured, not eliminated. The UF folks didn't wake up one day and say 'you know, it'd be a really good idea to just cut those computer nerds out entirely'.

Long and the short of it is that the teachers are going to bear the brunt of the funding cuts, either by direct loss of position, or increased workload.

I for one did not think the courses were being eliminated entirely. No university could do without CS courses. But I do think that slashing the budget of an important department, moving it into another, and raising the sports budget is short sighted.

It is very obvious that Universities are becoming just like banks where their students are no longer their customers but a part of the product they are selling; which is no longer their degrees.

JohnnyBiggles

tpatt100 wrote: »

I don't think a college degree is worthless. If you didn't have to take loans, you got grants or your parents paid for it, or you worked and paid for it on your own then you really didn't lose much except time. If people are getting degrees and not getting what they expected then you have to look at other things besides the degree to find what the problem is. High expectations are usually never satisfied.

No, a college degree is not exactly worthless. It's certainly better to have than not to have. However, getting said paper, is one of the hardest things to do in the world for a growing amount of people, for several popular reasons such as paying for it, and dealing with all the nonsense and time that is required to qualify for it. It's getting to (or perhaps beyond) the point where the value of it falls short of the value of all that it costs to get it (time, money, sanity, etc.).

Novalith478

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Check out the Khan Academy videos. It's actually pretty damn good educational material. If I were to opt for home schooling a student, I would definitely use it's material as a source.

The Khan academy is one of the ways I passed grade 12 math. My teacher was absolutely horrid.