whats my worth?

tanks !

Mike-Mike wrote: »

sounds about right

Agreed, sounds about right.

noobsrevenge wrote:

I was always told by my dad, don't take the first offer that comes your way otherwise you'll never know what you're worth. Good advice maybe 30 years ago, but I wonder if that still applies to todays job market. Hmmmm.

There's another saying--"A bird in the hand's worth two in the bush."

Adages aside, your aim probably shouldn't be to determine as accurately as possible what you're worth, but rather to find a job you enjoy that fits your career and life goals.

Tip - Offers generally have an expiration date. If you're not sure about the offer, contact other companies. If you're being terribly underpaid, one or more will step forward.

PS - I'm one of the top-paid people in my field, and I don't do the bidding thing. I've always accepted the best first offer. I like to work for a company that will treat me fairly, that will offer me bonuses and raises when my performance merits them, without having to ask twice.

Thanks for the advice, I realize very much that at this point it's still a lot about environment and learning/experience opportunities but, as it stands I've been contacted several times and when the would-be employer asks "So what type of salary requirements are you looking at" or " What type of compensation bla bla" etc etc. I have literally replied

"Uhhh, you know...whatever..."

and then gone on to babble about appropriate compensation for an above entry level to somewhere around mid-level compensation with room to learn and get experience and basically meander around the question and give no REAL answer. I feel like a chump doing that and would rather have something in mind, yet, I dont

At least from now on I know 50 is a good starting number and can go from there, I guess.

I appreciate all the feedback! I want to thank anyone that comes across this, as I first found this forum when I googled a question during my CCNA studies and have been a fan of techexams ever since ! Really a great forum and great members, thanks all !

noobsrevenge wrote: »

"So what type of salary requirements are you looking at" or " What type of compensation bla bla" etc etc. I have literally replied

"Uhhh, you know...whatever..."

and then gone on to babble about appropriate compensation for an above entry level to somewhere around mid-level compensation with room to learn and get experience and basically meander around the question and give no REAL answer.

I'd say, "I'm not sure what the going rate is for my skillset. What do you feel is fair?" Not only would I say that, I have said that! The best answer is often direct and authentic.

I know 50 is a good starting number and can go from there, I guess.

Stating a salary requirement--when you're not sure what you're worth--might hurt your prospects. We're guesstimating. I'd only state such if you'd prefer being unemployed than working for less or you have many good opportunities above it. Otherwise, you may just price yourself out of the market.

PsychoFin

Since you don't have a lot of experience apart from work at university, I would also just ask what they think is fair.

BradleyHU

always ask what is the range they're looking to pay...and ask this b4 you go in for an interview with them.

BradleyHU wrote: »

always ask what is the range they're looking to pay...and ask this b4 you go in for an interview with them.

whole heartily agree, and look how your skills and experience match up to the job specs, and decided where you think you fit. Remember they will be only be willing to pay he top of the range for some one with all the skills and several years experience.

I like NetworkVeteran have not found the need to debate pay much, always being offered what I am looking for.

Also be very careful about asking for more, I personally don't take kindly to it, When I offer a job to some one with a figure it is based on what I think they are worth to the company. I will offer a good rate to some one who I think will fit the role, rather than try to get some one cheap by offering them less. and hoping they will take it.

One guy once after I made a suggesting for his wage, came back asking for 20% more, when I said no and the original offer was off the table to. At which point tried to apologise and told me he was struggling to find a job and was more than happy to go with the original suggestion. If you looking to get in to a field, you need experience. Once you have experience you will know what you are worth and can enter in to these discussion, untill then I would just work on gettign the experience.

So my advice before asking for more, think what the offer on the table gives you. Is it enough to survive, and how do you skills match up to the position. Personal I would rather take a job on a little less, work to demonstrate they where right to chose me, and then at my 6month / year review
discuss money if i think its appropriate.

Everyone

"I don't want to discuss salary yet. I'd prefer any offers to be made based on my experience and the value I can bring to your organization."

the_Grinch

Very heavy philosophical question you have there (What am I worth?). In all honesty, there truly isn't a way to tell. I've always used previous salaries to dictate what I would expect from where ever I went next. I'm assuming the work you were doing was not full time and that will kill you on pay when looking for that first job out of school. Best advice I would give is know what you need to be comfortable. Be able to pay your bills, have fun, and continue your technical education. If you can do all that on $35k, then hey anything equal or above that is icing on the cake. Gaining experience should be the goal out of the gate, with salary and value being something you worry about as you move further along in your career.

I've always given a range when it came to salary as that shows that your flexible. Hard numbers (especially when their too high) will equal a thanks, but no thanks. With a range it also gives the employer some wiggle room as well. Good luck!

ChooseLife

DevilWAH wrote: »

Also be very careful about asking for more, I personally don't take kindly to it, When I offer a job to some one with a figure it is based on what I think they are worth to the company. I will offer a good rate to some one who I think will fit the role, rather than try to get some one cheap by offering them less. and hoping they will take it.

With all respect to DevilWAH, I would like to offer a different view on this.

It's really nice of DevilWAH to offer the "fair price" up front, and if other employers followed the same rule, it would be a simpler game. However, I have established (through personal experience of salary negotiation, talking to HR people, and reading some online resources) that in many if not most cases the potential employer tries to minimize their spendings by offering a number on the low end of the budgeted salary range. I even came across some interesting opinions/suggestions coming from HR realm about reaction of a candidate to the first offered number: (a) accepting the first offer without negotiating indicates that either the number was above candidate's expectation, or the candidate is desperate to get the job; (b) negotiating the offer shows a candidate values himself; (c) initial salary negotiation shows personality traits of a prospective employee - "alpha" go-getter vs "omega" follower.

Negotiating the initial salary, IMO, provides the candidate with one more very important opportunity - visibility into the company's handling of money:
How is the decision to raise a salary made?
Who makes the call? who participates?
Do they have a set budget?
Do they value money more than the candidate? and so on

I turned an offer down in the past because of the way a company acted in the salary negotiation process - it revealed some important ways the company handled finances - which did not seem like a good fit for me.

HLRS

minimum of 40 k, because CCNA is jackpot

ChooseLife wrote: »

that in many if not most cases the potential employer tries to minimize their spendings by offering a number on the low end of the budgeted salary range.

I see it changes a lot depending on your level.

Coming in at a junior level with little experience, there is no way for a candidate to know what they are worth, and for a support desk position I know exactly what I am willing to pay. I know that they will work in a team whose skill sets I know well and that (despite that they may not be meant to) will most likely discuss there pay with others. So becasue of this fact I will offer exactly the amount I think they deserve based on the rest of the team. Offering less will lead to bad feeling later on and suggestive a lack of respect on my part to some one trying to find there way in to the field. Adding to that how tight the pay band is lickley to be, I would rather just be up front then get in to conversations about the odd £100 or so.

For more experienced people I expect them to know what they are worth in the market, after an initial chat (over the phone) for them to find out about the role in an informal manor, when I invite them in to an face to face interview I will give them the figure I am willing to offer if they are successful, or I might ask them what they are looking for to see if it matches the idea in my head. I know what I think they are worth and I expect a experience person to come up with a simmler amount to what I have in mind. I don't expect them at a later point after I have given them an offer to come back asking for more, if they accept an interview knowing the figure then that's the figure they get.

Just as with ever thing else, if you want the best you must be prepared to pay a fair price, personally I think it is rude to offer a low figure, it just shows either a lack of respect to a experienced indivual, or its taking advantage of a inexperienced person who does not know any better.

HLRS wrote: »

minimum of 40 k, because CCNA is jackpot

CCNA is nothing!

if you can demonstrate in and interview that you understand the consepts at the CCNA level it means something, but just the bit of paper in your hand means nothing.

For me its simple

Job Spec and responsibilities = Wage

you can apply for a job on my help-desk with a CCIE, but if you can do the job with no networking skills at all, then you will get the same pay as every one else doing it. and some times to get experince you have to bite the bullet, and accept a job that may not be using all your skills to get your foot in the door, and this also means accepting the wage is not as good as you would like.

So whenever, through phone interviews, I am proposed what my salary requirements are, I still don't know what to say. =(

Basically throw the ball back in their court and ask for what they think is fair to me?

exactly, do try to get an idea of what kind of range you should expect to see (post specs on here if you want to get some suggestions) then see if the numbers are in the same ball park.

Mike-Mike

I asked for more and didn't get it, and another time asked for more and got it... on the third time they offered me the number I had in my head, so I said ok.... I fully prepared to say "no, I want this" and then they immediately told me exactly the number I was wanting, so I agreed....

but, when I have a job, I tend to go fishing... float a resume out, put out a higher number.... if someone says no, then it's not a big deal, I already have a job I like...

if they say yes... then I'm in the money

N2IT

CCNA in the states is huge in most big cities. I was passed over for a nice gig because my lack there of it. Maybe in the UK the CCNA don't mean jack but in the states it brings huge returns if leveraged properly.

It can bring you from the desk 30-40 to the networking ranks 50+. Beyond that it sets you up in a position to move forward. Saying the CCNA is nothing is insane.

@ the OP

Rough guess 50 tops

Depends your degree if it's business then maybe higher if it history or geography 45-50

Zartanasaurus

Find out what you are worth, adjust for the job requirements, side benefits and how desperate you are and ask for it. Not a fan of the "tell me what you think I'm worth" or "tell me what you budgeted for the position" tack. You're relying on people you don't know to be honest and up front with you. If you do your homework beforehand, you shouldn't overshoot their target by too much. And if you do, you might not want to work there anyway.

Getting experience early on still key. It's more important than money to a point.

noobsrevenge wrote: »

Basically throw the ball back in their court and ask for what they think is fair to me?

Precisely. Ask what they think is fair for the position, given your skillset.

Concerned Water

Agreed. My friend skipped desktop support by going straight to a system admin position for his first IT job just a few weeks ago. Zero experience, but had a little knowledge of servers OS's.

N2IT wrote: »

CCNA in the states is huge in most big cities. I was passed over for a nice gig because my lack there of it. Maybe in the UK the CCNA don't mean jack but in the states it brings huge returns if leveraged properly.

It can bring you from the desk 30-40 to the networking ranks 50+. Beyond that it sets you up in a position to move forward. Saying the CCNA is nothing is insane.

@ the OP

Rough guess 50 tops

Depends your degree if it's business then maybe higher if it history or geography 45-50

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

You're relying on people you don't know to be honest and up front with you.

Being honest in no way implies blind faith or reliance on the honesty of others.

If his first offer is below the range we suggested, he should tell them he needs a few days to think before making such a major decision. Often, the offer itself gives the recipient a few days to think--an "expiration date". Within that time he will either: (a) receive much better offers, indicating that the first employer is dishonest or can't afford him or (b) not receive much better offers, indicating that the original offer was fair. Hint: keep interviewing until the ink is dry.

As an aside, in my last job search, all but one employer who made me offers showed integrity. One ended up doubling their original offer. How silly! I would never work for such a place.

ChooseLife

DevilWAH wrote: »

...I will offer exactly the amount I think they deserve based on the rest of the team. Offering less will lead to bad feeling later on and suggestive a lack of respect on my part...

...personally I think it is rude to offer a low figure...

Once again, I wish more employers were acting like you. As long as the employers keep accepting my counter-offers to their initial numbers, I stand by my opinion that candidate low-balling is taking place in this game...

P.S. It is not necessarily a low figure, but on the lower end of the range the employer is willing to pay to get the candidate

Ok so this popped into my head this mornin, what do yall think...

"... One thing I'm hesitant of doing is pricing myself out of a good opportunity like this one, however, having said that, I believe with my skill set and desire for learning and advancing myself I think 50 would be a fair starting point. But I'm open to hear what you think is fair for the position."

Something like that would sound nice right?

Everyone

No, don't give them a number!

Research what the position you are interviewing for should pay. The pay range you come up with should be based on:

Location of the job.
Industry the company is in.
Size of the company.
Years of experience required for the job.
Degree required (if you have one, don't let degree "requirements" scare you away from a job).

Use resources like glassdoor.com, salary.com, etc.

The line I mentioned in a previous post works well.

If they tell you a number, and it isn't in line with your research and/or the range you're willing to work for, move on.

If they don't tell you a number, but your research shows a range you'd be happy with, give it a shot and hopefully any offer you get (if you get one) will be within that range.

More often then not, if you give them a number 1st, you lose.