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Certs without degree
Atmosphere1991
Member Posts: 29 ■□□□□□□□□□
Do you think that I can be successful in the IT field without a degree? Like if I was CCNA, CCNA:Sec, CEH, CHFI, SEC +, Linux +, would I be able to compete with someone with a bachelors.
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stryder144
Member Posts: 1,684 ■■■■■■■■□□
I don't have a bachelor degree but I do have A+/Net+/Sec+ certs. I have a full-time job at a major telecom, a part-time job with Geek Squad, and was offered a job to work for the state...all IT jobs. So, yes, it is possible. Having said that, though, I'd seriously consider getting the degree. I have been shut out of many, many jobs because I don't have that degree. I am currently in the process of enrolling at WGU in order to correct that little problem.
Cheers.The easiest thing to be in the world is you. The most difficult thing to be is what other people want you to be. Don't let them put you in that position. ~ Leo Buscaglia
Connect With Me || My Blog Site || Follow Me -
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Master Of Puppets
Member Posts: 1,210
In short - yes. A degree is always useful especially if you want to get into management at some point. It is going to open a lot of doors. However, there are a ton of people high on the food chain(tech and management) who don't have degrees. For more information go through the forum, there are a lot of great discussions on this one.Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for. -
Optionswguhelp
Member Posts: 12 ■□□□□□□□□□
One of the biggest issues is having experience to back up the certs if you are just starting out. That's the first thing they ask in interviews when you just have certs and I got turned down a lot.
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networker050184
Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
You can be successful in this field without certifications or degrees. That doesn't mean it will be easy though. The more things you have to sell yourself with the easier it is going to be on you.An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made. -
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RouteMyPacket
Member Posts: 1,104
The answer, "depends".
I for one could care less about someone having a degree. It does nothing for me as an employer, I want to know what you can do. With that said, you could very well run across recruiters etc. that focus in on degrees.
With that said, all in all it's not that big of a deal but having it never hurts either. I rarely ever worked around anyone with a degree. I had one and couldn't hold their jock straps at the time so again, a degree does not make you a expert.
Without a degree it might be harder for you to obtain a IT Director/Architect role. Again, it "depends". You might become a networking God and have a solid reputation and companies would put more stock in that than you holding a degree.
I would focus on getting my foot in the door somewhere if I were you to start gaining experience all the while supporting that with study/certification to strengthen you in that role (R/S, Security etc.)
Certify yourself to what you do. If you do R/S everyday, what good is studying for Wireless? Strengthen the foundation of your experience first, then move on to other tracks later as they come along or interest you.Modularity and Design Simplicity:
Think of the 2:00 a.m. test—if you were awakened in the
middle of the night because of a network problem and had to figure out the
traffic flows in your network while you were half asleep, could you do it? -
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N2IT
Inactive Imported Users Posts: 7,483 ■■■■■■■■■■
You can, some types of roles are more accepting of having no degree than others. I have found IT engineering positions such as network and systems to be more experience (certification) friendly whereas programming usually likes you to have a CS or some programming type of degree. It really depends on the company, usually the fortune 500's (from my view point) require a degree but are fairly indifferent about certifications. MSP and other IT service companies are usually the other way around. Again this is just my opinion and what I have seen in a fairly long career. (Both sides HR and IT) -
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Khaos1911
Member Posts: 366
What if your competition has Certs and a degree? What if your competition has experience and a degree? Like I always say, go to war (job hunt) with as many bullets (certs, degree, experience, a personality) as possible. If it's that worrisome to you, why not go and obtain a bachelors?
I personally had no problem with investing in myself to obtain it. My mentality in undergrad was similar to how it is now. Some of these people may be smarter than me, but they'll never outwork me. So I had to go the extra mile to get through college (I'm looking at you Calculus and working three jobs at the same time just to pay for college!!!)....So I wholeheartedly feel that my competition are not going to go into an interview and "out" interview me when it comes to selling their talent and experience and why they would be a better fit for the company compared to my own. I'm still undefeated when applying for a job
Good luck, man! -
OptionsRouteMyPacket
Member Posts: 1,104
What if your competition has Certs and a degree? What if your competition has experience and a degree? Like I always say, go to war (job hunt) with as many bullets (certs, degree, experience, a personality) as possible. If it's that worrisome to you, why not go and obtain a bachelors?
Certs and a Degree - Regardless, I skip those and go straight to experience to see what they have done and potentially can do for me. Certs are icing on the cake to someone with solid experience. Degree I never pay attention to personally.
Experience and a Degree - Depends on what that "experience" is.
Being armed with all three would of course be ideal but again, it "depends" on each individual. This is where a solid technical interview should ALWAYS be performed, that is where you weed out the wannabes real quick.
I'd look through the experience, see who is likely a good fit then bring them into an interview/technical interview and let the chips falls where they may.Modularity and Design Simplicity:
Think of the 2:00 a.m. test—if you were awakened in the
middle of the night because of a network problem and had to figure out the
traffic flows in your network while you were half asleep, could you do it? -
OptionsKhaos1911
Member Posts: 366
uhh yeah...That's nice and all, but we are looking at this from the stand point of this person being new to the IT field. The thread starter has a CCENT and is asking how to be successfully in the field in general. Seeing that he probably doesn't have a ton of experience (if any), having a degree and certs (in my opinion) shows having a drive to learn and a passion for the field which would be great starting points for a entry level candidate. Good luck with everything, Atomosphere1991.
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eansdad
Member Posts: 775 ■■■■□□□□□□
In short yes, but your options will be smaller then if you had a degree. Some may disagree but I'll share my thoughts....Some companies require a degree. Either HR might not know what they are looking at cert wise or the company has a plethora of resumes when they post a position because everyone wants to work their or whatever. With that said I know dozens of people pulling 6 figures with out degrees and I know people pulling low salaries with them. Neither is really better then the other just their choice in jobs and location they are willing to travel to.
Starting out an AS and the CompTIA trio (A+, Net+, Sec+) will easily land you a desktop job and help quickly move you up the ladder while you acquire more certs (MCSA/MCSE, CCNA). A BS and later an MBA will help prepare you for leadership positions going along with even more certs (CCNP/CISSP).
IT is ever changing and those that show that they are willing to keep up and educate themselves will always get more opportunities. -
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wikiget
Member Posts: 75 ■■□□□□□□□□
Most of the companies I've worked with equate certs to requirements and degrees to experience. So, starting on the bottom-floor of IT without a degree or experience is doable with the right certs but, expect the new hire with zero experience and a BS/MS to be your supervisor.
The standing rule is two years per level of relevant degree. So a MSIT = 6yrs of experience."Once upon a time, disks were floppy, administrators were electricians and computers were louder then jets. Then it all got complicated." -Anon
Life of a Network Security Manager: http://imgur.com/kKvmgjj -
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yzT
Member Posts: 365 ■■■□□□□□□□
Certs will get your foot in the door if you don't have professional experience, whereas a degree will not.
However, once you are in, probably you will get stuck in the pay scale unless you have a degree. Not sure whether this applies world wide, though. At least in my country, you can have ten years of professional experience and no degrees, and someone with three years and a degree will earn more than you. -
OptionsLegacy User
Unregistered / Not Logged In Posts: 0 ■□□□□□□□□□
"Do you think that I can be successful in the IT field without a degree?" Most certainly I see it happen all the time but these people aren't any slouches there motivated professionals that strive to be the best. They work there butt off from the bottom and stay competitive to work there way to the top.
"Can you compete against someone with a bachelors's?"
Well that depends on the position. If its a requirement to have a Bachelors then you may be overlooked completely and not be able to showcase your knowledge. If the position is entry level not requesting a degree and you have the certs you listed with the knowledge and no experience then you may be able to beat a person with a bachelors minus the certs and no experience. But if you go head to head with someone with the same knowledge, certs, no experience, with a bachelors that degree might give the person the leg up. With so many job applicants you need to do everything you can to even the playing field. -
OptionsBloogen
Member Posts: 180 ■■■□□□□□□□
I have done very well without a degree and in my situation is has not been a disadvantage. It depends on many factors though such as, country, type of companies you work but most importantly on the individual. It often comes down to what you have to offer and how you can present it. If what you have to offer is the same or worse than the average candidate for the job minus the degree, of course your chances are not good (on average). Then again whether it takes 3 interviews or 30 interviews to get a job the result is the same.
Stay ambitious and keep improving yourself and the results will come. Whether that means you need a degree or not you should test for yourself. I took that approach. I tested the market, got the results I wanted and haven't looked back. -
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W Stewart
Member Posts: 794 ■■■■□□□□□□
Master Of Puppets wrote: »In short - yes. A degree is always useful especially if you want to get into management at some point. It is going to open a lot of doors. However, there are a ton of people high on the food chain(tech and management) who don't have degrees. For more information go through the forum, there are a lot of great discussions on this one.
Who in their right mind would want to get into IT management?:D
But in all seriousness, it's possible to be successful without a degree but there are certain areas of IT and certain companies that you're less likely to get into without a degree. Programming would be a lot harder to get into without a computer science degree let alone with no degree at all. You could probably get into network administration or systems administration simply by working your way up from help desk but the systems and network engineering jobs at larger companies will usually require a degree. Plenty of people have made 6 figures with no degree but I think for long term career stability, a degree would serve you well. That's just my opinion. -
OptionsMaster Of Puppets
Member Posts: 1,210
I have always wondered why some people put an extreme amount of thought into getting a degree vs certs or something along these lines. Why not just aim for the best option - experience + certs + degree? Why do you have to choose? After all, the goal is to advance and get better plus beating the competition on the job market.Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.
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Optionseansdad
Member Posts: 775 ■■■■□□□□□□
Who in their right mind would want to get into IT management?:D
The engineer might make a nice six figure salary but his boss is making more...I wanna be the boss, that and I'm tired of id10ts who know nothing of technology running things into the ground because they read an article on some crackpots blog.
