How much do certifications and education matter when applying?

I have a co-worker who is constantly bad mouthing people who go to school or get certified. Obviously, this person has no formal education or certifications, but has 20+ years in IT. If he was to apply for a job opening vs another less experienced but educated candidate what would it come down to?

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Plantwiz

It depends...

It would depend upon how he fit with the new team, his/her personality, the type of work need and how that complimented his/her experience.

Comes down to does he/she know the interviewer? Or have an 'in' contact person with the company. Depending upon how an interview would go, it just depends.

Black and white though...his/her experience will trump a degree if all things are equal.

pinkydapimp

It really depends on the role.

But anyone knocking people for learning more in their field sounds like an idiot to me.

Paul6

"Experience" can be overrated too, especially if you spend years or decades at one job doing the same tasks over and over.

Vask3n

Success101 wrote: »

I have a co-worker who is constantly bad mouthing people who go to school or get certified. Obviously, this person has no formal education or certifications, but has 20+ years in IT. If he was to apply for a job opening vs another less experienced but educated candidate what would it come down to?

These posts are a dime a dozen but I guess everyone needs to have an answer tailor-given to their exact phrasing of the question, even though this forum is littered with hundreds of posts of people asking this.

Your coworker is probably bitter about his lack of education and therefore projects that onto others.

If you don't have a formal education the farthest you can get is just technical jobs but never anything related to management which is usually higher paying.

markulous

pinkydapimp wrote: »

It really depends on the role.

But anyone knocking people for learning more in their field sounds like an idiot to me.

This exactly. I've had people tell me education/certs are useless and it's pure ignorance. Not that you're guaranteed anything with those, but they are far from useless.

bhcs2014

pinkydapimp wrote: »

It really depends on the role.

But anyone knocking people for learning more in their field sounds like an idiot to me.

He's probably knocking people for paying to learn even though you can learn for free. Plenty of people who are self-educated are more educated that those with college degrees. All the degree does is show on paper that you passed the required classes.

As far as what the OP is asking I'd say logically whoever can do the job better would get the job. It's that simple.. don't really know why people over complicate these kind of questions. It's not like the college degree or certs magically bring up the companies bottom-line lol

pinkydapimp

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST
No but the degree and certs to magically bring more options to the job seeker. College degree doesn't say you know more or have more experience than someone without one. But like it or not, it brings value. As do certs.

WiseWun

It depends...I've meet managers who said they don't believe in certs and I've meet recruiters who care about certs more then education. Doesn't hurt to have both plus experience.

bhcs2014

pinkydapimp wrote: »

No but the degree and certs to magically bring more options to the job seeker. College degree doesn't say you know more or have more experience than someone without one. But like it or not, it brings value. As do certs.

I agree. If one wants to get into a bureaucratic management type position then yea, they might need the piece(s) of paper. A lot of people never want to get into those types of positions though. Personally, if I don't get a job even though I am the best candidate for the job than I'd be glad I didn't get the job.

pinkydapimp

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I think its not just management nowadays. In the Infosec world certs and degrees are huge right now and give you a big edge in getting jobs. I can tell you the minute i added CISSP to my linkedin i was getting calls and still do regularly. And even if you dont want to get into management degrees provide a bit of career insurance if you will. But everyone needs to decide for themselves whether that insurance is worth it. For many that time/money investment may not be worth it. And for many it may.

tkerber

This really reminds me of a guy I used to work with years ago. He was a high level Systems Engineer with no degree or certs and constantly bashed me for going to school and studying for certs. He was very smart when it came to his job but otherwise he was just really arrogant.

This same guy also was just negative to others in general and had a sense of humor not too many other people enjoyed. Needless to say several years later he was canned and struggled to find a job that was as good as what he had before. Anyone who bashes you for wanting to better yourself and learn is a complete idiot in my opinion--very few exceptions..

LinuxNerd

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST So since he midly criticised you he is an idiot and deserves to suffer economically? Compassionate Conservatism right there.

markulous

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST
Didn't sound like he was happy the guy was suffering financially, just more making a point that a bad attitude can come back to bite you.

tkerber

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST
Exactly, I don't hate the guy and never did mention I was happy with him suffering unemployment (I don't wish that on anyone). I was just simply giving an example of someone similar to who Success101 is dealing with. People who criticize you for wanting to learn and grow aren't people you generally want to be around.

Danielm7

My brother was like that, always saying college was a stupid waste and didn't teach you what you really needed at work. Then, the successful startup he worked at was purchased, and suddenly the new company had requirements and he couldn't even advance in the role he was already performing. Many years later he's done his BS, MBA, PMP and he's a Sig Sigma black belt, has an amazing job in a different company and now sings a very different tune about education.

The only people I've seen who are so adamant about bashing people for trying to do certs or schooling at the ones who haven't done any of that. They've also usually been in IT since the 80s-90s and think everyone should follow the exact same path as them, even though that path isn't really possible anymore most of the time.

I don't know why this is always only an IT thing too, I don't imagine HR people or engineers sitting around mocking someone for trying to advance themselves because you can learn everything else for free.

tprice5

LinuxNerd wrote: »

So since he midly criticised you he is an idiot and deserves to suffer economically? Compassionate Conservatism right there.

This made me do a double-take. How you pulled that negative conclusion about his statement makes me believe you subscribe to the same 'education is for tools' ideology. His statement stands on its own...

tkerber wrote: »

Anyone who bashes you for wanting to better yourself and learn is a complete idiot in my opinion--very few exceptions..