There still aren't enough tech workers, and enterprises are paying the price

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There still aren't enough tech workers, and enterprises are paying the price | CIO

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Shoe Box

Well if companies would HIRE us and treat us like normal employees, instead of this never ending "contract employee" BS, maybe it would be easier to find I.T. people to fill the jobs. I have very limited loyalty to companies who don't treat me the same as every other EMPLOYEE there.

techfiend

That and it seems like a lot of companies are looking for way too broad of a scope for new hires. They could easily find someone that can and will do what they need but they want them to be able to do so much more. In order to move into a mid-level position around here you better know systems, networks, virtualization and while you are at it go learn a programming language and a few scripting languages then maybe a company will hire you. In the meantime the company spends the next year trying to fill the position or abandons the plan.

It keeps the motivated and capable in the entry-level positions blocking many from getting in.

srabiee

^^^ Definitely this. I've run into this problem countless times while actively seeking employment. These companies want someone who is a systems engineer, network engineer, virtualization expert (VMware, Hyper-V, and Citrix), can program, code, and script using 10 different languages, and is an Oracle and SQL business analyst expert. ALL for around median fair market value ($65K ~ $75K) for a standard sysadmin position in the Dallas/Fort Worth market.

And as already mentioned, many of these jobs are contracts that offer zero benefits.

Absolutely ridiculous.

kohr-ah

If our CFO didn't refer to us as a consistant expense more than a benefit would help. I'd like to see him work without email or Internet for a week.

networker050184

These are the reasons I don't work enterprise. I want my work to be the business, not just a side cost of doing business. It usually pays a lot better anyway!

systemstech

Yup. I see a lot of jobs asking for such a broad range. Listen, I want to be well rounded. I want to have a little bit of everything.... but you can't be an expert in everything. Let's be honest, I'm not a Harvard grad with a 4.0 GPA. I'm not a genius that can master everything.

bpenn

techfiend wrote: »

That and it seems like a lot of companies are looking for way too broad of a scope for new hires. They could easily find someone that can and will do what they need but they want them to be able to do so much more. In order to move into a mid-level position around here you better know systems, networks, virtualization and while you are at it go learn a programming language and a few scripting languages then maybe a company will hire you. In the meantime the company spends the next year trying to fill the position or abandons the plan.

It keeps the motivated and capable in the entry-level positions blocking many from getting in.

This right here. And to top it off, they want you to have experience doing it for 5-7 years. Well, I don't! I have almost 4 years of desktop support and I want to move into the mid tier job market but I cannot because of my lack of infrastructure support.

NetworkNewb

Have posted this before but just find it funny, and it relates to what you guys are complaining about

Question: How Do You Get Enough Experience to Apply for Programming Jobs? | Eli the Computer Guy

Fulcrum45

Or you have the opposite kind of job posting that just happens to within your skill set only to find they pay $10/hr

shodown

networker050184 wrote: »

These are the reasons I don't work enterprise. I want my work to be the business, not just a side cost of doing business. It usually pays a lot better anyway!

This is it right here. Whenever an enterprise calls me, I know right off the bat that what they are thinking about in salary and what I can bring in from a VAR/consulting gig are not the same thing. They want my skill level, but not what it cost.

gespenstern

Another thing to consider is a lack of soft skills among tech people, who because of their lifestyle are more proficient in talking to devices than talking to people. This results in inability to negotiate salaries that tech people deserve based purely on amount of skill and knowledge their positions require, tendency to accept low-ball offers and work for food, being shy to ask for a raise and being able to convince smooth-talking managers that tech people deserve it.

Early in my career I often found myself losing these fights with management, HR or other "negotiator" persons, because I didn't have proper words and overall felt myself unprepared to talk the talk.

JustFred

I have seen an ad for a company in my country, this ad seems to pop up every few weeks on my radar and i just shrug whenever i see it.

They just don't want a network person, you also have to be a windows specialist, Security specialist, Storage, Loadbalancers, you also have to know SQL, VMWare and a whole bunch of other stuff. Meanwhile they claim to be looking for a network engineer.

I just don't get why they keep posting the same ad every few weeks, when their demands are slightly unrealistic.

Verities

techfiend wrote: »

That and it seems like a lot of companies are looking for way too broad of a scope for new hires. They could easily find someone that can and will do what they need but they want them to be able to do so much more. In order to move into a mid-level position around here you better know systems, networks, virtualization and while you are at it go learn a programming language and a few scripting languages then maybe a company will hire you. In the meantime the company spends the next year trying to fill the position or abandons the plan.

It keeps the motivated and capable in the entry-level positions blocking many from getting in.

Agreed. The talent is there, but the companies have no idea what they actually need. This is why I gave up on finding a new position and just going to stay where I'm at. I was so close to getting another position supporting Application engineers but I didn't have even experience with middleware (BOSS/JBOSS). Ok I get that...but everything else on my resume fit the bill. IT is not something that's a one and done situation its a never-ending study session of new technologies. But alas I see the same position unfilled months later on Linkedin, Indeed, Dice, etc....

SpetsRepair

I'll take that with a grain of salt

NetworkNewb

JustFred wrote: »

I have seen an ad for a company in my country, this ad seems to pop up every few weeks on my radar and i just shrug whenever i see it.

They just don't want a network person, you also have to be a windows specialist, Security specialist, Storage, Loadbalancers, you also have to know SQL, VMWare and a whole bunch of other stuff. Meanwhile they claim to be looking for a network engineer.

I just don't get why they keep posting the same ad every few weeks, when their demands are slightly unrealistic.

Guessing you never worked at a small company where the sys admin (or in this case network admin) does pretty much everything? Those skills don't seem too crazy to me. Maybe I'm just too used to working at small companies though.

JustFred

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Guessing you never worked at a small company where the sys admin (or in this case network admin) does pretty much everything? Those skills don't seem too crazy to me. Maybe I'm just too used to working at small companies though.

I have, and it was not like this. At the smaller places i worked out, there were always 2 guys with different skills taking care of the shop, besides the programmers who had knowledge of some the other systems.

This company is an enterprise and what they are demanding is a bit of an overkill, I'd still love to work there.

NetworkNewb

lol yea, different story if that is an enterprise.

jeremywatts2005

My phone is ringing daily with multiple calls about jobs from Indian Recruiters. I rarely get an native English speaker. When I tell them my salary requirements there is an awkward silence. I ask them their range and they tell me like 10 - 20 K below what I make I almost laugh. I have a perm job that I only work 37 hours a week on and I make 6 figures. Why would I want to contract for less and work more? Companies just do not get it. They are stuck on hiring contractors only at salary ranges that are not meeting what they want for requirements. Even with what I make now I feel I am somewhat undervalued.

Read the job description for a security job or incident response job or even a security engineer job. They are wanting like 10 yrs experience in every thing security from SIEM to SOP development and at least 5 different certifications including a CISSP, a Masters Degree oh and they want to pay around 90 to 105K yeah sure I will get right on that. At first sight sometimes it looks like they are hiring a CISO as a Security Analyst.

Now can we say this is why they cannot find folks. There are some great folks out there who do not check all the boxes. Those folks should be the ones they are grabbing and developing. People want too much up front and do not want to invest in talent on the back end. I see it over and over. I would love to hire a guy with solid monitoring and analytics experience for IR and spend the time and money to develop them into an IR person. I get them at a lower rate and do not have to break any bad IR habits. I train them the way I want them to be and create loyalty. Managers cannot figure this out for some reason in this day and age.

nofear187

I think allot of the problems is mismanagement at all leaves of corporate America know a days , just to give an example I had not one but 2 I T managers one was with Chemtreat in Glen Allen, VA and not sure the other one told me they needed me in here yesterday for a job interview face to face since they have waited forever to do interviews and am know in jeopardy of losing my funding for this position, this was back in Nov of 2014 for 2 positions, then I was so busy at the time I couldn't do a face to face interview for either one , o well lamo.

Kandinsky

I'm really glad for this thread because I don't feel so alone now in what I have been feeling looking at IT job postings. I got an A.S. in network administration years ago and worked as a tier 2 help desk agent for about 5 and a half years before getting disillusioned and transferring to the sales department of the same company where I stayed for another 7 years before getting laid off due to company restructuring. I decided to return to IT and spent a year getting 4 MTA certs, as well as the A+, Network+ and Security+ and I am now at another ISP working tier 3 help desk. I want off the help desk! But everytime I go online, it's like companies want all this stuff I've never heard of. I'm currently trying to get my CCNA thinking that might be my ticket off the help desk, but it is EXTREMELY discouraging when you go on dice or indeed and they want a plethora of high level certs, CCNP, Vmware, citrix, linux, MCSE Java, as well as 5-10 years experience. Do they honestly expect you to be an expert in all of these things? It took me a solid year to get those 4 MTAs and the A+/N+/Sec+. I hope to have the CCENT by December and the full CCNA by early next year. But I feel like it's not enough. What does it take?

OctalDump

techfiend wrote: »

In order to move into a mid-level position around here you better know systems, networks, virtualization and while you are at it go learn a programming language and a few scripting languages then maybe a company will hire you.

Ooooh, I am so close on that one. Where do you work?

the_Grinch

I agree that companies want the world, but don't want to pay for it. That being said, I've found more often then not those postings are written by someone in HR and once you get in for the interview you'll find that most of that was more of a nice to have then it was a must have. I've been on a number of interviews where when I spoke with someone from the IT department the job did not include half of what was posted. Most of the time HR is merely forwarding the resume and the team is reviewing for the ones that they want.

SteveLord

My state is moving away from hiring new full time employees. They would rather absorb all existing IT staff (hire more/keep using contractors) and provide general services to all agencies. Sucks for me as my particular agency (and a few others) benefit greatly from having a "JOAT" on-site. Especially since we have a daily personal investment to our agency's success. Contractors, not so much.

the_Grinch

I hear ya SteveLord. Cheaper to hire a contractor rather then add someone to the pension and deal with benefits payments. The problem with that logic is that eventually there will be no one paying for the people collecting their pension. My state recently opened a Cyber Intelligence Fusion Center and all the positions posted were for contractors.

Russell77

I love how the article states most of us will be working gigs by 2050. Like anyone knows what will be going on then.

LeBroke

Main thing I get from this thread is that US really needs some better labour laws and a national pension plan...

techfiend

Octaldump: I'm in Minnesota, USA but it seems to be pretty common all over the world. The majority I see are asking for a lot while some are too vague to know and I think they're just collecting resumes.

inscom.brigade

My last job was full of H1 visa holders, non permanent residents. The guy that sat next to me had multiple IT Master degree's.
He only had a CCNA, he was smart but not so much for the network. I found out later that he made 40k less than me.
All the guys that I study ccie with are not in USA, but pretend to be. They get a USA phone when they come here to take Cisco exams. They get photos of themselves in front of the white house and use them on LinkedIn. They apply for all the position in every country USA, Canada, UK, Australia. I hear that H1 visa is down this year to 40,000, from 80,000, last year but that is still allot.

edit
sorry for the rant

impelse

It is very disappointed, I've been having a lot of phone calls for Security Analyst when they ask to be 007 and in the phone interview with my experience they says in that security position will be boring for me, they push me for Security Engineer then when I interview they said I need more skills and like I said before the ask you all the technologies to work for them.

I know HR will copy a job description but the recruiters (they suppose to know the market) make it worse, because the wish skills the make them a MOST HAVE, lol

joelsfood

Guys, we all know there's a disconnect between hiring managers and HR, and that job listings cast a wide net, as no one has exactly the skills/experience a particular job might want.

Something more importnat to remember rather than focusing on unrealistic job listings (as it's more of an unrealistic writing/reading process) is that shift from employees to contractors is being pushed as much from the employee side as the employer. Various changes as of late (recession, Obamacare, etc) have pushed more people into comfort and want of a contract job vs the old school of thought staying at one business all of your life.

More importantly, complaining doesn't change anything, so if you're not finding work, do something to change it. And complaining on this thread isn't on the list. Learn a new skill, broaden your experience (volunteering if need be), get out there and sell yourself. There are plenty of jobs out there, but no one is going to knock on your door and ask if you want one. Well, other than someone asking you to join a pyramid scheme...