Wanting to go Cyber FBI, what else do I need?

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I'm eventually wanting to join the FBI as professional staff doing Cyber work. If anyone has any real-world FBI application or career experience advice that could help me be a very solid candidate with a good chance of being selected for interview I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'll have my bachelors by next fall and go straight into my masters at WGU, which calls for a C|EH and C|HFI which are 2 certs I believe they'll be impressed with, but even then I still want to stand out above the competition.

I'll probably have to learn a bit of programming too right? So far I'm only decent at Visual Basic and very basic in some Java and C++ which i'll need to brush up on.

Thanks!

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Blackout

Why not look at the NSA? They are always hiring Security guys, the FBI doesn't pay well in comparison. The FBI specifically recruits patriots because they feel that honor>pay. A Friend of mine was accepted as a field agent, her starting pay was like 55K

CyberSecurity

Thanks, I've tried there too... Just received my 90-day email stating that they still haven't found it appealing enough to warrant an interview. I know i'd need more coding experience / and at least a CEH or OSCP before trying to apply there again.

Blackout

Both of which normally hire very senior security guys, your probably write about the coding. I would keep working the defense side for security and keep networking with people. the NSA and FBI are a lot like NG and the bigger contracting companies where as they do most of their recruiting via referrals

Robertf969

Are you using USA Jobs to look for positions? Not sure if the NSA and FBI use this but I know getting an interview in the Gov system is a pain, just make your resume reflect as much of the job description as possible.

tpatt100

I know their questionnaire when I was filling out an online application a few years ago isn't very forgiving. I got to a recreational drug use question and it was so long ago but the screen pretty much said "sorry you suck no thank you"

CyberSecurity

Good point, I'll have to try to network a little and see what it can do for me. We just had a veteran FBI agent leave here that I should have gotten to know better... shoot!

CyberSecurity

Robertf969 wrote: »

Are you using USA Jobs to look for positions? Not sure if the NSA and FBI use this but I know getting an interview in the Gov system is a pain, just make your resume reflect as much of the job description as possible.

Yeah, I've been checking those daily. I think if I take another job in the govt in something I don't necessarily want to do forever, I may have a better chance of transferring govt departments versus going in cold. GS to GS may be the way to go but I really have no idea what their hiring statistics are.

CyberSecurity

tpatt100 wrote: »

I know their questionnaire when I was filling out an online application a few years ago isn't very forgiving. I got to a recreational drug use question and it was so long ago but the screen pretty much said "sorry you suck no thank you"

That sucks! I know now it only looks at use within the last 3 years. But then there's the polygraph as well where they're going to try to figure out how much you've really done over the term of your life.

the_Grinch

Very tough to get on with them without experience before hand. I had a professor become professional staff with the FBI and he had a Masters along with several years of security experience (not including his regular IT experience prior). Also, he had some professional networking with the office he ultimately got on with. Honestly, I'd second that you look to the NSA as you're more likely to get a response from them. But the other option is to look to do some sort of internship with them or another law enforcement agency. I'll add that I don't believe you'll get a lot of mileage out of having the CEH or CHFI. You have your CISSP so that is definitely note worthy, but if anything I would look more towards Encase or ACE certification.

CyberSecurity

the_Grinch wrote: »

Very tough to get on with them without experience before hand. I had a professor become professional staff with the FBI and he had a Masters along with several years of security experience (not including his regular IT experience prior). Also, he had some professional networking with the office he ultimately got on with. Honestly, I'd second that you look to the NSA as you're more likely to get a response from them. But the other option is to look to do some sort of internship with them or another law enforcement agency. I'll add that I don't believe you'll get a lot of mileage out of having the CEH or CHFI. You have your CISSP so that is definitely note worthy, but if anything I would look more towards Encase or ACE certification.

Great advice, I'll look into that. NSA isn't the dream but if it gets me there then I'll look into that route. I'll also go for the Encase, as far as ACE, I've never heard of it but I'll check it out.

kiki162

You have a killer resume BTW. They seem to like either kids right out of school, or ones that have advanced degrees with special skill sets. You have a better shot at getting into a GS spot. Try getting into a spot over in the Ft. Meade or Annapolis area, and see if you can't work your way in from there.

636-555-3226

If you're debating b/w CEH or OSCP go for the OSCP. After OSCP go for the rest of the Offensive Security certs. It's hard to say no to someone who has a few of those under their belts, at least from a technical angle.......

CyberSecurity

kiki162 wrote: »

You have a killer resume BTW. They seem to like either kids right out of school, or ones that have advanced degrees with special skill sets. You have a better shot at getting into a GS spot. Try getting into a spot over in the Ft. Meade or Annapolis area, and see if you can't work your way in from there.

Much appreciated, I have the hair loss due to stress that came with it, ha ha. I agree with you though and was considering moving to the area so i'd be right there. I hear they just assign you to a location though once your on and you kind of have to just up and go where they want for the first tour.

CyberSecurity

636-555-3226 wrote: »

If you're debating b/w CEH or OSCP go for the OSCP. After OSCP go for the rest of the Offensive Security certs. It's hard to say no to someone who has a few of those under their belts, at least from a technical angle.......

Yeah we've been debating around the office here between the two certs, OSCP is the cert to go for it seems like, it's in-depth and gets your conceptual abilities down very expertly to bring directly into the workforce. Too bad more HR reps look for the CEH due to it's DoD 8570 instruction. Luckily the new DoD instruction on this was just released yesterday and the specifics are coming out soon, hopefully OSCP is one of the certs they'll recognize.

the_Grinch

I think you'll find much more opportunity at NSA vs the FBI. I mean if your goal is law enforcement, that's one thing, but both deal in national security as a whole. NSA would afford better educational opportunity, definitely much better technology, and advancement/movement is amazingly easy in NSA (do your initial two years and you can then go anywhere). If forensics is your goal, NSA does a lot of forensics.

FBI will usually post every 18 months or so for entry level computer forensic examiners. You'll work through their programs (two weeks A+, two weeks Network+, then several weeks of forensic training). Usually hire at the GS-5/7 level and I believe top out at a 12. FBI isn't hurting for applicants and when that is the case they can be really picky.

Plenty of law enforcement agencies out there that deal in forensics/incident response/etc. To list a few:

IRS
ICE
CBP
Secret Service
ATF
DEA
Postal Inspection Service (typically their OIG hires more often)
Army (CID)
Navy (NCIS)
Air Force (OSI)
FPS (rare)

So keep your options open. It's good to have dreams, but I always say aim for a dream career and not the agency.

SaSkiller

As far as how to get employed by NSA, your best bet is a job fair, whether in person or Through the Intelligence Community Online Job Fair.

As far as those other agencies, the military ones are highly competative. Check out 911jobforums. http://www.911jobforums.com/f58/

OSCP will not be included in 8570.

On the other hand we did explore the DOD 8570 and discovered a number of items that we would have to change about the testing process to get it approved. Sadly, these items would remove the "soul" of the certification and place it on the level as many other certifications. The end result would be everything that is unique, special, and makes the OffSec certs stand out would die.
One item we never do on anything is compromise on quality. In some cases, like this one, there is a cost to be paid for this stance. So getting involved in the 8570 program just is not going to happen.

https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/1vryus/we_are_offensive_security_we_do_kali_linux

ccie14023

Not sure if it is still in print, but you might want to read a book called "Tremor in the Blood" on the uses and abuses of the polygraph. It is not a lie detector. It is horribly inaccurate, and many perfectly legitimate candidates are disqualified because of faulty polygraph exams. There is a reason polygraph evidence is not admissible in court. It is a real shame our government continues to use this discredited technology to screen applicants.

guy9

I think and heard from the grape vine it's still much a who you know not what you know job market. People look out for family, friends, and associates. So, knowing someone on the inside has advantages. I would pick up one of the internships with that agency. To me, that's the easiest way in. The money isn't great but most people don't work at that agency because they start off at 100k. It's for other reasons. That agency like every other agency has contractors working for them. That is another way to do a lil ass kissing, know the right folks and get in, maybe. Saying you want to work for the FBI is what 10,000,000 other people say. So, it's very competitive.. when I get home if I am totally bored I will find the link to colleges that that agency you named "supposively" gives preference to. I actually got the list from a university and it took me to a govt. Website so it is somewhat factual. I am not going to talk about WGU (I've said that many times before). I worked on Quantico for a bit, I know people on Quantico. I was even selected for a internship with said agency a couple years ago..but i can't live off of that $ they were offering (still have the emails). I am not pulling any of this out my rear end or from Google searches A lot of jobs on Quantico support different govt. agencies. I applied for a job and they told me they couldn't tell me where I'd be working until the day I start. ...yeah that was funnny.

If i am not mistaken a 4 year degree is required for most if not all positions, I forget (not talking about contractor/sub contractor support gigs). So saying you have a 4 year degree is like saying you have a left and right foot. Mostly everyone who applied has a 4 year degree. ..just being honest. I would attempt to separate myself from the pile of resumes

Cyberscum

Received job offers from both FBI and NSA. PM me for more info on the hiring process and what they are looking for in a candidate.

Are you only looking for cyber and not SA for the FBI?

datacomboss

InfraGard and FBI Citizens Academies are great for networking with your local FBI field offices.

wes allen

The couple FBI guys that I have worked with were pretty cool, but no way I would do their job for what it pays. Also, soft skills and things like accounting / financial experience will go a lot farther than OSCP with them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-fbi-understaffed-to-tackle-cyber-threats-says-watchdog-2015-7

mamoreno89

As someone who always wanted to work in the FBI, this thread has shed some light on it.

I like the focus being on the career instead

phantasm

Look at the SEC. They're on the SK pay scale... MUCH more money. FBI, NSA, CIA, they don't pay well. For them it's service above all else... unless you're in the SES.

EDIT: I don't mind serving my country... but I have bills to pay and those agencies require a TS:SCI with a full scope polly... better not have any financial issues or you lose your clearance. So imagine taking a 30% pay cut but still having to maintain your clearance. Good luck with that.

SoCalGuy858

guy9 wrote: »

when I get home if I am totally bored I will find the link to colleges that that agency you named "supposively" gives preference to. I actually got the list from a university and it took me to a govt. Website so it is somewhat factual.

Could you be referring to the National Security Agency's accredited Centers of Academic Excellence?

https://www.nsa.gov/ia/academic_outreach/nat_cae/institutions.shtml

I've seen plenty of NSA-specific and other defense-related job announcements that mention NSA-CAE accredited degrees, but not much beyond the DoD. Seems as if the rest of the Feds haven't gotten on board just quite yet. YMMV on this, though!

SaSkiller

ccie14023 wrote: »

Not sure if it is still in print, but you might want to read a book called "Tremor in the Blood" on the uses and abuses of the polygraph. It is not a lie detector. It is horribly inaccurate, and many perfectly legitimate candidates are disqualified because of faulty polygraph exams. There is a reason polygraph evidence is not admissible in court. It is a real shame our government continues to use this discredited technology to screen applicants.

Yeah, you're telling me... Thats the reason I am not working there today. Having done some studies in CI, I understand that despite its issues it can be beneficial, that said,I believe it should be an additional resource for digging into investigations. So if you have an applicant who popped on the drug question, maybe you dig into that when you investigate, rather than it being a FP and just stopping it there...

The big question I would have in reguards to working with the FBI would be simple. Do they provide good training and experience? If so, the job may be worth the loss in pay. If I was on a team that tore down a cybercrime ring...

RHEL

I've been through the entire process for FBI Special Agent via cyber/IT skill-set, so I can try to help out if you have any specific questions. The FBI is very large and very systematic. Most of their hiring info will be posted online and they follow it word for word.

For me, after qualifying, I had to become 'most competitive' given my skillset vs everyone else via education, and experience, underwent a battery of exams, interviews, meet and greets, physical fitness tests, was flown to NYC (that's when it struck me, my dream was becoming real)...

But then, I came down to earth. I was no longer the 21 year old straight out of college able to jump aboard any opportunity. With a house, wife with a career, excellent job, and mega student loans, sadly, that government salary just wouldn't cut it.

The good thing about professional staff is that you can actually apply to a specific location -- that may make it worthwhile. For me, the risk for making <70K in NYC or SF and ultimately being a step above homeless did not allow me to move forward.

Best of luck, please let me know if I can help!

CyberSecurity

Cyberscum wrote: »

Received job offers from both FBI and NSA. PM me for more info on the hiring process and what they are looking for in a candidate.

Are you only looking for cyber and not SA for the FBI?

Yeah, Cyber mostly. Already in the field now and i'll be specializing as time goes on. I'll PM you. Thanks!

CyberSecurity

Yeah True, thought about that too. Suppose it depends on what you're currently being paid, if I could go in as a GS-12 or 13 that'd be ideal but unfortunately I only ever see job opportunities for that pay scale to be hired internally only.

phantasm wrote: »

Look at the SEC. They're on the SK pay scale... MUCH more money. FBI, NSA, CIA, they don't pay well. For them it's service above all else... unless you're in the SES.

EDIT: I don't mind serving my country... but I have bills to pay and those agencies require a TS:SCI with a full scope polly... better not have any financial issues or you lose your clearance. So imagine taking a 30% pay cut but still having to maintain your clearance. Good luck with that.

OM602

It must be your naval background, but Wireshark should be spelled as a single word

Anyway I met some Cyber FBI dudes at a SANS training, they seemed to be the best of the lot. Both during class and in the bar afterwards (what? no beer smiley)

CyberSecurity

Good catch! I wonder if I typed it like that or it autocorrected... hmmm
Well if they're the best of the lot, then I have much studying to do

OM602 wrote: »

It must be your naval background, but Wireshark should be spelled as a single word

Anyway I met some Cyber FBI dudes at a SANS training, they seemed to be the best of the lot. Both during class and in the bar afterwards (what? no beer smiley)