Cyber Defense Operations Grad Cert

mactex

Hello TE GIACers.

I'm currently enrolled in the Cyber Defense Ops program and am mid way through SEC 401; so still early in the program for me. I'm currently a Storage Engineer who wants to move over to Security (blue team).

Just seeing if anyone else is enrolled or completed CDO and has any feedback or recommendations. Also; what did you take as your elective and why?

TechGromit

What is the Cyber Defense Ops program? Never heard of it. I have heard of Cyber Defense SANS courses you can take, but fail to see how this is different then taking SANS regular courses.

mactex

Its an STI program (NetworkNewb has linked it above). Although, it is pretty much as you described; four courses tied together with associated GIAC exams. Was just interested to see if anyone is doing/has done it and if they have any general feedback or tips.

TacoRocket

They sure do love to have the GSEC as a corner stone for a lot of their stuff. Its here for this certificate they have and its also required for the GSE (you can substitute it for the GCUX and GCWN). I think if you can handle the 501 they should forego requiring 401. Thoughts anyone?

mactex

TacoRocket wrote: »

They sure do love to have the GSEC as a corner stone for a lot of their stuff. Its here for this certificate they have and its also required for the GSE (you can substitute it for the GCUX and GCWN). I think if you can handle the 501 they should forego requiring 401. Thoughts anyone?

I'm not paying for it and not currently in a security role; so I don't mind the review. Plus you get some decent labs and Dr Eric Cole stories as only he can tell them. For more experienced security peeps; i would agree.

TacoRocket

That's a fair point you bring up. I just wish they would allow other substitutes as well. Could possibly allow both of us a shot at the certificate depending on the background of the people.

mactex wrote: »

I'm not paying for it and not currently in a security role; so I don't mind the review. Plus you get some decent labs and Dr Eric Cole stories as only he can tell them. For more experienced security peeps; i would agree.

Mike-Mike

if my company will pay for it, I might go for this

TranceSoulBrother

I'm definitely eyeing one of these certs since it qualifies for GI Bill reimbursement.
I don't know which would be better. This cert or the Incident Response one?

mactex

TranceSoulBrother wrote: »

I'm definitely eyeing one of these certs since it qualifies for GI Bill reimbursement.
I don't know which would be better. This cert or the Incident Response one?

I am burning some Chapter 33 months on it. Worth it IMO.

yoba222

TacoRocket wrote: »

They sure do love to have the GSEC as a corner stone for a lot of their stuff. Its here for this certificate they have and its also required for the GSE (you can substitute it for the GCUX and GCWN). I think if you can handle the 501 they should forego requiring 401. Thoughts anyone?

I feel the exact same way. I Feel like I'd have to backpedal if I wanted their GIAC triforce or GSE quintet or whatever by doing the very pricey GSEC. If work is paying for it go for it though.

TranceSoulBrother

mactex wrote: »

I am burning some Chapter 33 months on it. Worth it IMO.

Do you fly to Baltimore or doing the on demand option?

mactex

TranceSoulBrother wrote: »

Do you fly to Baltimore or doing the on demand option?

On demand. I might try to get out to SANS Baltimore in September to get a few months of the allowance gravy.

TechGromit

So they have you take the GSEC AND the GCED? Sounds like a waste of 5 grand to me. I'm also not clear what you end up when your completed, a Cyber Defense Operations certificate? While the GIAC certifications are valuable, I've never heard of any employer that places any value in this certificate.

TacoRocket

I see it as what CompTIA is doing when you get a certain set of their certs. Not a deal breaker but a nice goal to set for if you're just taking their exams randomly.

TechGromit wrote: »

So they have you take the GSEC AND the GCED? Sounds like a waste of 5 grand to me. I'm also not clear what you end up when your completed, a Cyber Defense Operations certificate? While the GIAC certifications are valuable, I've never heard of any employer that places any value in this certificate.

mactex

TacoRocket wrote: »

I see it as what CompTIA is doing when you get a certain set of their certs. Not a deal breaker but a nice goal to set for if you're just taking their exams randomly.

Sure, I can see that. I think what is being missed here is that it is a graduate school certificate. Meaning the credits are transferable to an M.S. program. So If I were to matriculate to one of STI's M.S. programs the credits are applicable.

mactex

TechGromit wrote: »

So they have you take the GSEC AND the GCED? Sounds like a waste of 5 grand to me. I'm also not clear what you end up when your completed, a Cyber Defense Operations certificate? While the GIAC certifications are valuable, I've never heard of any employer that places any value in this certificate.

Again; it is a grad school certificate through STI. Also; i'm not paying for it. Not directly anyway. Curious as to why you say it would be a waste? If you have both the GSEC and GCED; I would value the feedback. Thanks.

globalenjoi

I'm currently working on the Core Engineering certificate using my GI Bill benefits. While I can't speak to your particular certificate, I will say there is definitely value in the certificate program, especially if you're looking for options for the GI Bill. I was looking at graduate programs and trying to find high-level, technical programs that would offer a good return on the investment. Since the GI Bill can't be used to cover any real IT/infosec, the STI certificates looked to be the best choice for strong, technical training.

I kind of thought the GSEC wouldn't be worth it, since I already had Sec+ and I didn't expect GSEC to cover much more valuable information. But since I don't have a strong technical background, it didn't seem like a bad place to start. My main regret is that if I had done one of the other certificate programs, I wouldn't be super nervous about writing a paper for my GCIA course at the end of the year!

mactex

globalenjoi wrote: »

I'm currently working on the Core Engineering certificate using my GI Bill benefits. While I can't speak to your particular certificate, I will say there is definitely value in the certificate program, especially if you're looking for options for the GI Bill. I was looking at graduate programs and trying to find high-level, technical programs that would offer a good return on the investment. Since the GI Bill can't be used to cover any real IT/infosec, the STI certificates looked to be the best choice for strong, technical training.

I kind of thought the GSEC wouldn't be worth it, since I already had Sec+ and I didn't expect GSEC to cover much more valuable information. But since I don't have a strong technical background, it didn't seem like a bad place to start. My main regret is that if I had done one of the other certificate programs, I wouldn't be super nervous about writing a paper for my GCIA course at the end of the year!

Concur with all points. I also have Sec+ and find the GSEC a good refresher; plus a nice intro to some tools I haven't touched very much if at all. I almost went with Core Engineering. Like you, I am not sure if I will go full STI after this program; and don't need the extra work until I decide.

TechGromit

mactex wrote: »

Curious as to why you say it would be a waste? If you have both the GSEC and GCED; I would value the feedback. Thanks.

While I do not posses a GCED certification, one of my co-workers did attend both courses. The GCED is basically the GSEC but more in-depth. GSEC is the more commonly recognized certification of the two and the GCED is a higher level certification. It's possible to take the GCED without the GSEC if you have some security experience or perhaps a Security+ training. The reason I say it's a waste, at $5,000 a course (taking it as part of the Cyber Defense Ops program), normally the courses are $6,000, the money is better spent on other courses that are not so much alike.

mactex

TechGromit wrote: »

While I do not posses a GCED certification, one of my co-workers did attend both courses. The GCED is basically the GSEC but more in-depth. GSEC is the more commonly recognized certification of the two and the GCED is a higher level certification. It's possible to take the GCED without the GSEC if you have some security experience or perhaps a Security+ training. The reason I say it's a waste, at $5,000 a course (taking it as part of the Cyber Defense Ops program), normally the courses are $6,000, the money is better spent on other courses that are not so much alike.

I see. Good feedback. Makes sense from the financial perspective. Thanks for that.

I will say that I am finding that the GSEC covers a lot more than Sec +. I may need to think about the program a little more regarding the GCED. I will dig some more on the forum for some recent GCED reviews.

globalenjoi

TechGromit wrote: »

While I do not posses a GCED certification, one of my co-workers did attend both courses. The GCED is basically the GSEC but more in-depth. GSEC is the more commonly recognized certification of the two and the GCED is a higher level certification. It's possible to take the GCED without the GSEC if you have some security experience or perhaps a Security+ training. The reason I say it's a waste, at $5,000 a course (taking it as part of the Cyber Defense Ops program), normally the courses are $6,000, the money is better spent on other courses that are not so much alike.

I don't think you're wrong necessarily. But there are only 4 different certificates, and I don't believe you can swap the courses out unless it's designated an elective. So he's kind of faced with either taking that certificate, taking a different one, or taking none at all. Core Engineering would probably be the next best option, but then you get one less course AND you have to write a Gold Paper for the GCIA portion. It'd be amazing if you could just use the GI Bill directly for an individual course, separate from the graduate certificate program.

Personally, I would have rather taken the Penetration Testing program and started with the GCIH, but my current job doesn't have as much use for the training and my employer preferred me to start with GSEC. They were actually going to send me to the GSEC on their own dime, but I worked out an arrangement where I do the graduate cert using my VA benefits, and they send me to Baltimore so I can attend in person and still receive my housing benefit. It's worked out great, as I was able to purchase the full PTP course from ELS using a chunk of the housing allowance.

mactex

globalenjoi wrote: »

I don't think you're wrong necessarily. But there are only 4 different certificates, and I don't believe you can swap the courses out unless it's designated an elective. So he's kind of faced with either taking that certificate, taking a different one, or taking none at all. Core Engineering would probably be the next best option, but then you get one less course AND you have to write a Gold Paper for the GCIA portion. It'd be amazing if you could just use the GI Bill directly for an individual course, separate from the graduate certificate program.

Personally, I would have rather taken the Penetration Testing program and started with the GCIH, but my current job doesn't have as much use for the training and my employer preferred me to start with GSEC. They were actually going to send me to the GSEC on their own dime, but I worked out an arrangement where I do the graduate cert using my VA benefits, and they send me to Baltimore so I can attend in person and still receive my housing benefit. It's worked out great, as I was able to purchase the full PTP course from ELS using a chunk of the housing allowance.

Good points. The goal for me is to increase proficiency in defensive security, as I believe the market will be saturated with pen testers in the near future. I may complete the GCCC and then switch to Core Engineering to get the GCIH. After reading historical posts about the GCED; I think Techgrommit is probably right. It is unfortunate that I have to think about using "GCED Avoidance Tactics". I'm not afraid of writing papers; so no big deal there.

Were you able to access the on demand in addition to attending Baltimore for your class? Looking at going in the fall for the same reasons.

TacoRocket

While you are correct, you cannot do any of the work study programs if you're doing their Master's program. Which a lot of people on this forum do.

Not arguing but to point an extra DP on the subject. Overall any cert is a good cert!

mactex wrote: »

Sure, I can see that. I think what is being missed here is that it is a graduate school certificate. Meaning the credits are transferable to an M.S. program. So If I were to matriculate to one of STI's M.S. programs the credits are applicable.

mactex

TacoRocket wrote: »

While you are correct, you cannot do any of the work study programs if you're doing their Master's program. Which a lot of people on this forum do.

Not arguing but to point an extra DP on the subject. Overall any cert is a good cert!

Understood. Not doing work study. I'm retired military; so I have a lot of VA to burn.

globalenjoi

mactex wrote: »

Good points. The goal for me is to increase proficiency in defensive security, as I believe the market will be saturated with pen testers in the near future. I may complete the GCCC and then switch to Core Engineering to get the GCIH. After reading historical posts about the GCED; I think Techgrommit is probably right. It is unfortunate that I have to think about using "GCED Avoidance Tactics". I'm not afraid of writing papers; so no big deal there.

Were you able to access the on demand in addition to attending Baltimore for your class? Looking at going in the fall for the same reasons.

I didn't have access to the on demand part, but I did get the audio for the course. Honestly, I don't know if I would have used any on-demand material after attending the course in person. I didn't even listen to the audio when prepping for the exam, but that's mostly because I study more effectively by reading. I think the most valuable course in the Core Engineering program will be the GCIA, though I've heard the course is pretty tough.

mactex

globalenjoi wrote: »

I didn't have access to the on demand part, but I did get the audio for the course. Honestly, I don't know if I would have used any on-demand material after attending the course in person. I didn't even listen to the audio when prepping for the exam, but that's mostly because I study more effectively by reading. I think the most valuable course in the Core Engineering program will be the GCIA, though I've heard the course is pretty tough.

That makes sense. I'm the same with reading. The on demand is pretty nice to have though. Especially the lab walk-throughs.