WGU Has a computer Sci program now

Clm

https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees/computer-science.html#

DoubleNNs

Looks great. Python, HTML5/CSS. Some Networking, Security, and Operating Systems. And you have an official Comp Sci BS afterwards as opposed to IT with programming specialty.

What do the rest of you think?

Edit: Actually, I see some Java too. Wish that was swapped out for more Python or at least some Golang

JoJoCal19

I actually have been wanting to get a CS degree, partly for learning and understanding CS concepts, partly to get into GT's OMSCS program. I understand one can get into that program by taking a couple of math or coding/CS courses then transferring in, but you're really at a disadvantage by not having the whole CS undergrad degree. So I looked at B&M CS degrees but you have to take so much BS Calc and Physics courses either to get in, or as part of the program. I'm not doing another 3-4 years part time to get BSCS. The entry level algorithms, discrete structures, and other CS concepts is what I really need.

When I heard about this and the PDF of the degree plan leaked, I was happy. So I am thinking of submitting my degrees to have it reviewed and see how many classes I can get taken off, and doing this before going for the GT OMSCS.

Spiegel

This looks pretty good. Will definitely consider getting this degree after I finish my current program. I also wouldn't mind having a better foundation in programming. Also, having a BSCS looks pretty good on your resume.

averageguy72

Cool, looks good from a cursory overview. I just remarked yesterday that I always wished I'd gotten a CS degree.

josephandre

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

I actually have been wanting to get a CS degree, partly for learning and understanding CS concepts, partly to get into GT's OMSCS program. I understand one can get into that program by taking a couple of math or coding/CS courses then transferring in, but you're really at a disadvantage by not having the whole CS undergrad degree. So I looked at B&M CS degrees but you have to take so much BS Calc and Physics courses either to get in, or as part of the program. I'm not doing another 3-4 years part time to get BSCS. The entry level algorithms, discrete structures, and other CS concepts is what I really need.

When I heard about this and the PDF of the degree plan leaked, I was happy. So I am thinking of submitting my degrees to have it reviewed and see how many classes I can get taken off, and doing this before going for the GT OMSCS.

have you looked at Oregon State's post bacc? or any of the new coursera masters offerings (ASU for ~ 15k) etc?

JoJoCal19

josephandre wrote: »

have you looked at Oregon State's post bacc? or any of the new coursera masters offerings (ASU for ~ 15k) etc?

I did look at Oregon State's post bacc and am considering it, although it seems to be more money and I may have to take more classes that I don't care to, thus taking 2-3 years half-time. I've not seen any of Coursera's masters offerings. With those Uni's it seems to be the same situation I want to avoid, of having to take 2-3 years half-time.

josephandre

i mean if you don't have a CS background, how much time are you expecting to get a CS degree in? Even with wgu these aren't offerings that your experience will allow you to gloss over.

JoJoCal19

I'm an extremely quick learner and don't need to spend a 5 month semester doing only 2 courses. With the degrees at the B&M schools and typical semester model, it would 3+ years part time. At WGU it would take a lot less, and is really dependent on how fast I can learn the material and how much time I dedicate to it. Not being artificially restricted by typical operating model. There are so many ridiculously good resources available for CS, there is no need to take 5 months for one class/topic.

josephandre

Most of these new models, even if they don't mirror WGU's format, are still moving towards at your own pace, and not constrained to the typical model. OSU has a 1 yr track for the post bacc... Masters Courses in general typically are a yr or 2. So fast learner or not, I just dont realistically understand how quickly you're expecting to burn through their 4 yr compared to other options that have fast tracks.

I finished a wgu program in 7 months, tons of us did (and I'll assume you too) or quicker, but that was with certs, and testing out of things we already knew etc. Doesn't seem like that will be the case in a degree like this, especially if the goal is to learn it.

There's also taking the CS courses through harvard extension and then transferring them in. Or hell Im pretty sure OMSCS itself has their intro to CS available for free on EdX and if you pass will allow you to transfer it in for credit.

stryder144

He won't be burning through four years as there is a lot of overlap between his BSBA and the BSCS degree (at least the gen ed classes). So, he should be able to knock things out in one to two years, if he is able to quickly grasp things.

JoJoCal19

Exactly Stryder, between my BSBA and MSISA, I should be able to bypass all of the gen ed, and even the basic IT and security courses, leaving just the software, algo, math, scripting, and other CS related courses. That's the hope anyways. When I have my transcripts reviewed and receive the outcome, that will let me make a solid comparison. I know that I can take 1-2 CS courses and then apply to a MSCS and get in, but I think I would be doing myself a disservice. I've been reading on the OMSCS reddit a ton, and I think people that do that and get in without a full CS degree tend to struggle. I'd like to hit all of the BS level CS courses to make sure I have a firm grasp of the concepts, and be prepared for MS level CS courses.

stryder144

JoJoCal19...that makes absolute sense. This degree really interests me, as well, for very similar reasons. A $7k-ish MS from Georgia Tech would be pretty cool.

josephandre

lol. clearly i don't mean the entire program. but the meat of it. it's the same scenario as what we've been able to bypass in any of WGU's degrees, the difference is what's remaining is foreign, and the point of it all. In a post bacc you're getting only the CS portion and in much more depth than through what WGU is offering. So i guess to me (and no clue why I'm so invested in this argument) is that if doing the post bacc is 'too long', or transferring into OMSCS is short changing yourself, those seem to be conflicting positions.

To me it sounds like you just want to cut corners on earning the degree, but are billing it as wanting to learn. If you like it though, I love it.

JoJoCal19

josephandre wrote: »

To me it sounds like you just want to cut corners on earning the degree, but are billing it as wanting to learn. If you like it though, I love it.

I want to cut corners on the non-CS stuff, and time yes. With post-bacc degrees I'm seeing I still have to take Physics II (or Physics w/Calc II), as well as Calc II, III and additional math courses. With the WGU BSCS it has only 1 Calc class and I can get that one waived no problem, as well as the Natural Science Lab course. Also like I said, I have ZERO desire to have to take a class over the course of a 5+ month long semester. Those two calc classes cannot be taken in the same semester obviously, so there is two semesters of time wasted. With how fast of a learner I am, the time I can dedicate to it and ability to move at my own pace (not artificial 1 week per module limits),and the available resources online, I can do one class per month. So in a 6 month term I can knock out at 6 classes if I'm able to, versus 2 classes in a 5 month semester. Like I said, I don't care to take 3+ years to do another BS degree. Also as my argument before, who cares about the depth of classes at B&M vs WGU. There are a metric sh*t-ton of resources online nowadays to deep dive, that are available to be consumed at my own pace, again not an artificial time limit.

I have a BSBA from a B&M and am finishing up a MS Cybersecurity from a B&M. Comparing this MS to the one at WGU, I could have done this degree in 1 term, 2 if I was being lazy. The problem is again, only being able to do 2 per semester.

josephandre

i get it. as far as who cares about the depth... i mean, someone who wants to learn CS? just don't really see how someone would be doing a disservice by taking some cs courses (or learning on their own) and transferring into GT, but getting the WGU degree that only really has a handful of cs courses, with the ultimate intent on enrolling in GT isn't the same thing. Especially when you already have multiple degrees. Just odd, but you have your reasons. Good luck

JoJoCal19

josephandre wrote: »

i get it. as far as who cares about the depth... i mean, someone who wants to learn CS?

The depth between WGU and B&Ms courses? I can deep dive farther than the B&M course in a much more efficient manner by using any one of the thousands of free online resources. Deeper, not drawn out, and from even more angles. I'd rather supplement the WGU course that way than be stuck in a B&M course for 5 months.

josephandre

i'm talking about the amount of CS-centric courses in a degree, not necessarily how a particular class stacks up to another.

Anyway, none of my business, just found it odd. again good luck.

sidenote - shoutout to people leaving negative reps anonymously. will never cease to be funny.

JoJoCal19

Definitely wasn't me, all reps signed with -JoJoCal19.

The other aspect is cost too. The goal is the MSCS. I'd rather not drop a lot of coin on the BS level. OSU's post-bacc is 60 credits and is $478 per credit. Just on tuition alone, not going to happen. Again, there is so much free CS stuff online to augment WGU's CS classes.

Just because I like to make comparisons on paper, I put together a list of OSUs vs WGUs CS courses. Those are ALL of OSUs courses. I've ordered the WGU courses to match what would probably be their respective counterparts at OSU. Hopefully this helps people trying to compare. Honestly, if one isn't going to stop at the BS level, there isn't a need to pay $28k vs $6-9k for what is essentially the same thing. Even if the OSU courses are of higher quality, like I said there is more than enough free material to dive deeper into each topic if one chooses. And they can do it in their own timeframe.

OSU:
Programming I, II
Discrete structures
Data structures
Analysis of algorithms
Web Development
Introduction to Databases
Software Engineering I and II
Computer Architecture and Assembly Language
Operating Systems
Introduction to Computer Networks
(Capstone) Software Projects

Electives (Pick 2 out of 5)
Introduction to Usability Engineering
Defense Against the Dark Arts
Open Source Software Development
Parallel Programming
Mobile and Cloud Software Development


WGU:
Scripting and Programming - Foundations
Scripting and Programming - Applications
Discrete Mathematics I
Discrete Mathematics II
Data Structures and Algorithms I
Data Structures and Algorithms II
Web Development Foundations
Structured Query Language
Data Management - Foundations
Data Management - Applications
Software Engineering
Software I
Software II - Advanced Java Concepts
Computer Architecture
Operating Systems for Programmers
Introduction to Artificial Intelligence
Software Quality Assurance
Computer Science Capstone

JoJoCal19

The other aspect I hadn't even mentioned yet, I'm willing to bet that WGU is making the material more accessible to people. I've read syllabi, course descriptions, read reviews and talked to students of, and sampled course material for CS courses at B&M universities. CS material is not easy for just anyone to pick up and understand, and a common thread I've seen is that these long tenured professors make things entirely harder than it really needs to be. I don't think that's going to be the case at WGU. Especially due to the learning model, it needs to be highly accessible to students. Also in looking at several topics broken down into two courses (i.e. Data Structures and Algorithms, Discrete Mathematics, etc) it seems they aren't trying to cram everything into one class.

DoubleNNs

I think what josephandre was saying (and I agree with him) is that he's confused because you could just learn the CS fundamentals on your own time for free. And then start the MSCS. The disconnect is because you already have multiple degrees and you have your goal set on the MCSC and not being tied down by artificial limitations. Even w/ WGU, the curriculum itself can be viewed as an artificial limiter, regardless of whether it's a lighter limit than another degree program.

Positive reps to josephandre, because I understand his confusion and to contrast any negatives he's gotten.

Edit: But just like josephandre, I'm not trying to talk you out of or discourage your pursuit JoJo. This IS a forum about tech exams. And we all see the merit in obtaining (say for example) a CCNA vs just reading Network Warriors and thinking you have the knowledge of a network admin.

JoJoCal19

DoubleNNs wrote: »

I think what josephandre was saying (and I agree with him) is that he's confused because you could just learn the CS fundamentals on your own time for free. And then start the MSCS. The disconnect is because you already have multiple degrees and you have your goal set on the MCSC and not being tied down by artificial limitations. Even w/ WGU, the curriculum itself can be viewed as an artificial limiter, regardless of whether it's a lighter limit than another degree program.

Positive reps to josephandre, because I understand his confusion and to contrast any negatives he's gotten.

Edit: But just like josephandre, I'm not trying to talk you out of or discourage your pursuit JoJo. This IS a forum about tech exams. And we all see the merit in obtaining (say for example) a CCNA vs just reading Network Warriors and thinking you have the knowledge of a network admin.

josephandre's argument wasn't for doing a whole BSCS, but rather why do the WGU vs a B&M (ASU or OSU to be specific). Then he started merging in a new argument of why not just learn CS fundamentals, which you're mentioning too. I'll answer both as clearly as possible. But yes, essentially the Network Warrior vs CCNA logic is a part of it.


Why do a degree instead of learn CS fundamentals:

1. With Georgia Tech's OMSCS (and really every other MSCS I've seen) they require a BSCS. In lieu of that, GT requires an arbitrary number of CS courses to be completed to go along with your non-CS BS. It's arbitrary because it depends upon a multiple of factors including what coursework you did during your BS (to include any CS classes, math classes), and your current work experience. My current resume (combo of work experience and education) make me an extremely weak candidate. Therefore I guesstimate I would need to do somewhere between 4-6 courses to make me an attractive candidate.

2. As I stated above, over the years I've done a TON of research into MSCS degrees. I've read syllabi, course descriptions, read reviews and talked to students of, and sampled course material for CS courses at B&M universities. CS is not something easy that just anyone can pick up. It's really difficult stuff and I've read many horror stories of people either un-prepared for the MS level, or who still couldn't cut it at the MS level after getting a BSCS. I know myself, and learning a few CS fundamentals isn't going to cut it. I want to learn all of the undergrad level CS stuff to make sure I'm not wasting time and money at the MS level.

So now that we've established the why of doing something like a full BSCS, why WGU over any other B&M, read above as I've laid it out very well, but to summarize here:

1. Cost. $28k for OSU post-bacc. $6k-9k for 2-3 terms at WGU (probably 2 terms).

2. Time. 3+ years for B&M due to antiquated model. 12-18 months for WGU (again, probably 12 months).

3. It ties into #2, but flexibility is key. Why the hell should I be forced to sit through a long, drawn out class for 20 weeks when I can do the class in 2-4 weeks (depending on difficulty and how well I grasp the material)? As well, finishing my third B&M degree now, I'm sick and tired of flexing my schedule and life to fit due dates. My WGU MSISA was a breath of fresh air in that regard. I have times where I can dedicate 6+ hours in one go on material. Times where I have birthdays, vacations, holidays and would rather not deal with school work. Flexibility is key.

4. It's yet to be seen until reviews come in, but WGUs method will probably make the material more accessible and present it in an easier way to grasp, unlike what I've seen from reviews from CS students at B&Ms. Additionally, there is more flexibility to WGUs courses with the availability of tons of free outside resources.

colemic

WGU CS degree:

Calculus.
Discrete Math I.
Discrete Math II.

Nope, nope, and nope.

My bachelor's is in gen studies, and there it shall remain.

josephandre

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

josephandre's argument wasn't for doing a whole BSCS, but rather why do the WGU vs a B&M (ASU or OSU to be specific). Then he started merging in a new argument of why not just learn CS fundamentals, which you're mentioning too. I'll answer both as clearly as possible. But yes, essentially the Network Warrior vs CCNA logic is a part of it.


Why do a degree instead of learn CS fundamentals:

1. With Georgia Tech's OMSCS (and really every other MSCS I've seen) they require a BSCS. In lieu of that, GT requires an arbitrary number of CS courses to be completed to go along with your non-CS BS. It's arbitrary because it depends upon a multiple of factors including what coursework you did during your BS (to include any CS classes, math classes), and your current work experience. My current resume (combo of work experience and education) make me an extremely weak candidate. Therefore I guesstimate I would need to do somewhere between 4-6 courses to make me an attractive candidate.

2. As I stated above, over the years I've done a TON of research into MSCS degrees. I've read syllabi, course descriptions, read reviews and talked to students of, and sampled course material for CS courses at B&M universities. CS is not something easy that just anyone can pick up. It's really difficult stuff and I've read many horror stories of people either un-prepared for the MS level, or who still couldn't cut it at the MS level after getting a BSCS. I know myself, and learning a few CS fundamentals isn't going to cut it. I want to learn all of the undergrad level CS stuff to make sure I'm not wasting time and money at the MS level.

So now that we've established the why of doing something like a full BSCS, why WGU over any other B&M, read above as I've laid it out very well, but to summarize here:

1. Cost. $28k for OSU post-bacc. $6k-9k for 2-3 terms at WGU (probably 2 terms).

2. Time. 3+ years for B&M due to antiquated model. 12-18 months for WGU (again, probably 12 months).

3. It ties into #2, but flexibility is key. Why the hell should I be forced to sit through a long, drawn out class for 20 weeks when I can do the class in 2-4 weeks (depending on difficulty and how well I grasp the material)? As well, finishing my third B&M degree now, I'm sick and tired of flexing my schedule and life to fit due dates. My WGU MSISA was a breath of fresh air in that regard. I have times where I can dedicate 6+ hours in one go on material. Times where I have birthdays, vacations, holidays and would rather not deal with school work. Flexibility is key.

4. It's yet to be seen until reviews come in, but WGUs method will probably make the material more accessible and present it in an easier way to grasp, unlike what I've seen from reviews from CS students at B&Ms. Additionally, there is more flexibility to WGUs courses with the availability of tons of free outside resources.

No.

I didn't have an argument initially. I just offered up some info/options that I thought might be practical or useful if your goal was just to get into OMSCS, OR to get a degree in CS. I mentioned OSU because it's a no gen ed CS degree that can be done as quickly as is practical or possible for you. I mentioned ASU because it is a cheap, online, project based Masters that was just introduced and likely less stringent than GT's, I also mentioned Harvard Extension for their highly regarded, incredibly reputable CS courses that you can take with NO requirements and has been documented as transferable to OMSCS along with the fact that it's a very thorough course that touches on quite a bit of CS fundamentals and can be taken for credit with zero pre reqs. The part about why not just learn CS fundamentals wasn't me 'merging an argument', it was just a direct response to you saying "there are tons of free resources out there." My sole degree is from WGU, I don't have a preference or any bias towards it or a B&M, was just offering some options, for you, or anyone that has interest and wants to know what else is out there that may be feasible. The scope was narrowed (and argued) to you specifically because of your particular situation, and wants. Seemed conflicting before becoming somewhat confrontational. Do what's best for you, what your research tells you is best for you, what your skillset and experience affords you the best opportunity. You just happened to mention time, entrance to OMSCS, not doing yourself a disservice, only needing certain core classes etc, and there are a plethora of options for all of the above. Relative cost, and model constraints seem to be the underlying main point now, and that's cool. That's valid, it just didn't seem to be the crux initially and I was discussing other options in relation to the other points. In any event, again, good luck. Hope things work out for you as you desire.


Thanks to those who hit me with some offsetting positive rep. Good stuff.

josephandre

sidenote, i'm only invested because i'm in a similar boat. i've already been rejected from OMSCS, haven't been able to find a local/affordable/convenient option to take the courses they recommended before reapplying, and other options i've looked at/mentioned are just too expensive for me. OMSCS seems really cool and affordable, but the level of effort and expenses, and time i'd have to commit to just have another shot at potential entrance have kinda cooled my interest. This program looks like it will be pretty good and i'm thrilled their offering it. Just don't know if i want a second bachelors or not. decisions decisions

JoJoCal19

Not sure why you got a lot of neg rep. I definitely didn't take any offense at your arguments and didn't take it as confrontational. I find nothing wrong with a good debate! Positive rep sent!

josephandre wrote: »

sidenote, i'm only invested because i'm in a similar boat. i've already been rejected from OMSCS, haven't been able to find a local/affordable/convenient option to take the courses they recommended before reapplying, and other options i've looked at/mentioned are just too expensive for me. OMSCS seems really cool and affordable, but the level of effort and expenses, and time i'd have to commit to just have another shot at potential entrance have kinda cooled my interest. This program looks like it will be pretty good and i'm thrilled their offering it. Just don't know if i want a second bachelors or not. decisions decisions

Now that I know your backstory, why wouldn't you consider taking a few of the CS courses then reapplying? Seems like we're in the same boat really, I just know that I would struggle without taking most or all of the bachelors level CS courses. Have you perused through the course materials for the OMSCS? If you have and found that you kind of get it, then you would be well served to knock out some courses and apply. How long ago did you apply? I know in the beginning they were way more strict. If you're not following the OMSCS reddit thread you need to be. You can gain a lot of insight into what people are currently getting in with, and what courses GT has looked favorably upon.

josephandre

i applied about a year and a half ago. i follow the reddit thread and a few other forums fairly religiously (but less in the past few months). I took a data structures course locally, went through almost every relevant mooc i could find, brushed up on math and realized i still have a ways to go. I have seen people get in with similar backgrounds and short comings, and I'm encouraged but like you, i don't want to get in and wash out, so I'm just trying to decide whats the best use of my time.