STI MSISE/MISM and SANS work study questions

Hi,

I am new to this forum, but think it is a great source of information. Thanks to everyone for the informative posts that I have read!

I am considering doing the STI MSISE or MSISM and wondering:
1. If one can attend SANS work study if one is in the MSISE program (to reduce some of the tuition fees)? I read on an old thread (several years ago) that Master's students did do work study but someone from STI admissions told me that Master's students could not do work study.
2. Does one have to do the courses in the sequence listed?
3. If one can attend SANS work study while in the MSISE program, does one generally get assigned a course that one needs from the MSISE program?
4. Any thoughts about the benefits of MSISE vs. MSISM (or vice versa)?

Thanks!

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b0Ris

I am also someone interested in exploring the masters program. I expect to enroll later this year.

1) To my knowledge, masters students cannot enroll in work study on for credit classes. For example, you can’t take SEC 401 to pass the GSEC towards you’re degree, but you could take the Defensible Security Architecture class, for no course credit or cert (because there is none) and work study that.
2) No, but I am planning to at least for the beginner and intermediate courses.
3) refer to #1.
4) I’m planning on the engineering because that’s the route I’d like to take. Also, I can always through a few manager courses in or ask for my employer to cover in the future/as I progress my career.

quogue66

JGS wrote: »

Hi,

I am new to this forum, but think it is a great source of information. Thanks to everyone for the informative posts that I have read!

I am considering doing the STI MSISE or MSISM and wondering:
1. If one can attend SANS work study if one is in the MSISE program (to reduce some of the tuition fees)? I read on an old thread (several years ago) that Master's students did do work study but someone from STI admissions told me that Master's students could not do work study.
2. Does one have to do the courses in the sequence listed?
3. If one can attend SANS work study while in the MSISE program, does one generally get assigned a course that one needs from the MSISE program?
4. Any thoughts about the benefits of MSISE vs. MSISM (or vice versa)?

Thanks!

I am in the MSISE program. I'm just over half way through. You cannot do work study as part of MSISE. There is some leniency with the order of classes but I think that depends on your background. I came into the program with 5 GIAC certs (only 3 transferred into the MSISE program) so they allowed me to take GREM as my first course. I also changed some things a few classes around due to cost. I was buying a house and didn't want to put out $3750 for a three credit course. If you're new to security and/or SANS they will probably insist you follow their direction regarding the sequence. The benefits of MSISE vs MSISM depend on what you wanna be when you grow up lol. It is a management vs engineering preference.

b0Ris

quogue66 wrote: »

I am in the MSISE program. I'm just over half way through. You cannot do work study as part of MSISE. There is some leniency with the order of classes but I think that depends on your background. I came into the program with 5 GIAC certs (only 3 transferred into the MSISE program) so they allowed me to take GREM as my first course. I also changed some things a few classes around due to cost. I was buying a house and didn't want to put out $3750 for a three credit course. If you're new to security and/or SANS they will probably insist you follow their direction regarding the sequence. The benefits of MSISE vs MSISM depend on what you wanna be when you grow up lol. It is a management vs engineering preference.

Have you found the education and degree worth pursuing?

quogue66

b0Ris wrote: »

Have you found the education and degree worth pursuing?

Definitely...it's a lot of work but all of the material is relevant. Some of the courses may not be as useful to you depending on your role but the majority are. It's also one of the only degrees you can get where you can get funding from multiple sources in an organization. What I mean by that is some/most security departments are willing to send their staff to one SANS course per year. This can be applied as part of the master's degree in addition to tuition reimbursement which comes from corporate funding.

Randy_Randerson

b0Ris wrote: »

Have you found the education and degree worth pursuing?

There is one more benefit of the program. It is designed to help you go through the ladder in order to get the GSE cert. Of which the biggest benefit to that wonderful thing is that by renewing the cert, you renew all the other certs you have. For anyone who has more than 4 GIAC certs, you realize very quickly how much money it costs to renew these things. At $450/ea, it isn't cheap

b0Ris

Randy_Randerson wrote: »

There is one more benefit of the program. It is designed to help you go through the ladder in order to get the GSE cert. Of which the biggest benefit to that wonderful thing is that by renewing the cert, you renew all the other certs you have. For anyone who has more than 4 GIAC certs, you realize very quickly how much money it costs to renew these things. At $450/ea, it isn't cheap

Are you worried about recerifying the GSE exam every 4 years since it must be recertified as a test?

b0Ris

quogue66 wrote: »

Definitely...it's a lot of work but all of the material is relevant. Some of the courses may not be as useful to you depending on your role but the majority are. It's also one of the only degrees you can get where you can get funding from multiple sources in an organization. What I mean by that is some/most security departments are willing to send their staff to one SANS course per year. This can be applied as part of the master's degree in addition to tuition reimbursement which comes from corporate funding.

I am planning to do this to help pay for my degree. How is the application to the program? Do you know if anyone gets rejected?

quogue66

b0Ris wrote: »

I am planning to do this to help pay for my degree. How is the application to the program? Do you know if anyone gets rejected?

This is a really interesting question and something I thought about while applying. The application process is pretty involved. You have to write two essays and record a 3-5 minute speech. There are also GPA requirements from your undergrad degree. I applied right after finishing undergrad from a well known university with a 3.92 GPA and I had 5 GIAC certs that I took within the last 12 months. I joked that I could probably write the essay in crayon and still get in. I have a feeling that very few people are rejected.

Randy_Randerson

b0Ris wrote: »

Are you worried about recerifying the GSE exam every 4 years since it must be recertified as a test?

I wouldn't be to be honest. You get the materials prior and unless it goes through such a massive overhaul -- you can rework the index to make it still work for you instead of against you. But I'll get back to you on that one since I'm not there yet. Still need to take SEC503 and GCIA to qualify.

Randy_Randerson

quogue66 wrote: »

This is a really interesting question and something I thought about while applying. The application process is pretty involved. You have to write two essays and record a 3-5 minute speech. There are also GPA requirements from your undergrad degree. I applied right after finishing undergrad from a well known university with a 3.92 GPA and I had 5 GIAC certs that I took within the last 12 months. I joked that I could probably write the essay in crayon and still get in. I have a feeling that very few people are rejected.

Where you go to school matters very little for this type of stuff anyways, but the courses you've taken are what they are really looking at. Namely because they'll force you to take them in a specific order unless you can show you have prior knowledge. They do that so the hope is you don't fail a 600 level course because you don't understand things taught at a 500 level one. Additionally, you won't be able to carry over all your certs anyways to the program since it is a school and you can only transfer X amount of credits at a graduate level. What that means is if you have GPEN, GCIH, GWAPT, GSEC, GCFA as your certs -- most likely only 3 of those are getting transferred. That means if 2 other ones are on your curriculum list, you'll have to take them all over again + cert pass.

Frankly, I think the program was created for GI Bill money + many employers will do tuition assistance/reimbursement. This helps out immensely with getting folks to SANS training when training budgets are strict and personal funds are not enough.

Robicus

Apologies for bumping, but I think I can add some value here:

1. If one can attend SANS work study if one is in the MSISE program (to reduce some of the tuition fees)? I read on an old thread (several years ago) that Master's students did do work study but someone from STI admissions told me that Master's students could not do work study.

Nope.

2. Does one have to do the courses in the sequence listed?

As stated, this largely depends on what, if any, previous certs/material you are eligible to transfer in. Academic advisers try to keep you on a study plan that aligns to key milestones throughout the program.

3. If one can attend SANS work study while in the MSISE program, does one generally get assigned a course that one needs from the MSISE program?

n/a.

4. Any thoughts about the benefits of MSISE vs. MSISM (or vice versa)?

MSISM is actually going away. Soon, you'll only have the MSISE option.

Regarding GSE renewal:

As a GSE holder, I'm not too worried about the renewal. You're only responsible for completing the multiple choice exam every 4 years. I'd be WAY more worried if GSE holders had to perform the 2 day lab every 4 years.

JGS

Hi everyone!

I wanted to thank everyone for their responses. I thought I would let you know that I decided to go for the MSISE. A good portion of my decision was the fact that if one completes the GSE, then it appears that one only has to keep doing that certification to renew all the certifications. That seemed a better option then doing the equivalent exam for the MSISM (the capstone) and then having to renew multiple certifications.