The Death of TE

So not to be too dramatic, but I just logged in for the first time in a week or two, obviously there has been some kind of change here, and I get it. But I have to question the wisdom of changing the entire interace, especially since it seems to be a worse experience and isn't even plugging any advertising, it seems the new guard has changed it for the sake of letting everyone know "something happened", but if the change hasn't brought any value to the members, or the owners, then WTF is the point? I for one after 15 years am looking for a new home. I get that things change, but this is one hell of a ham handed change that I fail to see the value in.

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DatabaseHead

EANx said:

DatabaseHead said:

I still can't believe in 2018 almost 2019 people are reviewing the web hunched over on a desktop/laptop and not on a mobile device or tablet. Strange......

The new format is REALLY good on a mobile device which IMO is the smart way to go. It would be interesting if they used Google analytics to see what percentage of users were on a desktop/laptop vs mobile....

People use technology in different ways. Assuming there is one best way is a really good way to provide poor solutions.

Sort of like 100% of the complainers on this thread only looking at it from the perspective of a desktop user, when 70% of all websites are reviewed from a "mobile" devices. I would say my solutions meets more end user requirements than any other proposed.......

Until I mentioned it (I forget what page) only people who use desktops were complaining. It reminds me of my father, refuses to use the web, loves himself some printed media.... Eventually you have to accept certain people aren't able to keep up with the new technology/design shift and you will lose them. Doesn't mean you should stop moving forward because a couple of cattle can't find their way.....

kaiju

April Fools!! lol

Your data is flawed. 70% of people own mobile devices however 70% of people do not prefer to use the mobile browser. A good portion of the 70% are tablets with screens larger that 8.0". Does that data account for mobile devices that are utilizing desktop view? Most likely not.

Try comparing:

Cell phone > Mobile browser (MB) vs desktop browser (DB)

Tablet > Tablet MB vs DB and [(Cell phone MB vs DB) vs (Tablet MB vs DB)].

Desktop > Desktop browser vs all of the previous test.

The best option for TE is to use a multi-platform environment that is setup to accept desktops and mobile devices. It is not possible make 100% of the people happy but TE is doing a good job of appealing to its multi-platform customer base. This is why the initial deployment was adjusted to kill the dead spaces in the desktop environment. Desktops are not going away anytime soon. Remember laptops, 2-in-1 laptops and so forth are part of the desktop environment.

Let's just agree to disagree. Happy Happy Joy Joy!!

LonerVamp

There probably aren't many people complaining from mobile platforms, since I would guess most people don't browse here via them.

On the flip side, are the mobile ones who are present able to provide positive feedback?

Given a choice, I will always prefer a larger screen with keyboard/mouse than a touchscreen or mobile device. I get more utility that way and it meets my needs, rather than just staring at a screen, scrolling, hitting some up/down likes/upvotes, and swiping left through imgur all day or something.

I understand some people prefer mobile platforms (not sure why), but the holier-than-thou plus they're-all-on-my-side attitude is really unnecessary and unbecoming. The fact that unfounded stats are thrown out without any sort of substantive backing doesn't help us take you more seriously.

DatabaseHead

kaiju said:

April Fools!! lol

Your data is flawed. 70% of people own mobile devices however 70% of people do not prefer to use the mobile browser. A good portion of the 70% are tablets with screens larger that 8.0". Does that data account for mobile devices that are utilizing desktop view? Most likely not.

Try comparing:
Cell phone > Mobile browser (MB) vs desktop browser (DB)
Tablet > Tablet MB vs DB and [(Cell phone MB vs DB) vs (Tablet MB vs DB)].
Desktop > Desktop browser vs all of the previous test.

The best option for TE is to use a multi-platform environment that is setup to accept desktops and mobile devices. It is not possible make 100% of the people happy but TE is doing a good job of appealing to its multi-platform customer base. This is why the initial deployment was adjusted to kill the dead spaces in the desktop environment. Desktops are not going away anytime soon. Remember laptops, 2-in-1 laptops and so forth are part of the desktop environment.

Let's just agree to disagree. Happy Happy Joy Joy!!

I agree there are multiple channels that need to be accounted for, but even if you look at the most pessimistic sights you are looking bare min 50/50 split between mobile and desktop access. Why wasn't this accounted for in the beginning of this thread and multiple other ones bashing the new format?

I would think a tech users base would have foresight to scope on both, which is odd because almost all if not all until I brought it up were reviewing through the lens of a desktop users and completely disregarded the updated format. Back to my original point even if you go conservative with a 50/50 split why wasn't mobile factored in when grading the site? Sounds EXTREMELY short sided by "IT" professionals.

TBH sounds more like the analysis from a bunch of mainframe operators......

Forums would fall into the social media space which is a heavy lean on mobile devices..... Along with banking, weather, email etc.....

Johnhe0414

cyberguypr said:

Somehow I missed this thread. Fantastic drama. Just remember how long it took for changes to happen pre-Infosec Institute. Remember how long it took to implement that SSL certificate that never happened? Exactly!

Change happens. Those of us who have been here for a long time helping others are still around. All historical data got migrated. Categories were revamped to reflect the comunity's interest. Sounds like a win to me.

Does the white layout burn my retina? Sure! But it's been made clear that management is looking into a solution. Just remember Rome wasn't built in a day.

Well said.

LonerVamp

Dude, you need to get over yourself...

DatabaseHead

LonerVamp said:

There probably aren't many people complaining from mobile platforms, since I would guess most people don't browse here via them.

On the flip side, are the mobile ones who are present able to provide positive feedback?

Given a choice, I will always prefer a larger screen with keyboard/mouse than a touchscreen or mobile device. I get more utility that way and it meets my needs, rather than just staring at a screen, scrolling, hitting some up/down likes/upvotes, and swiping left through imgur all day or something.

I understand some people prefer mobile platforms (not sure why), but the holier-than-thou plus they're-all-on-my-side attitude is really unnecessary and unbecoming. The fact that unfounded stats are thrown out without any sort of substantive backing doesn't help us take you more seriously.

Psychology 101. The people who are disgruntled will complain in this case the desktop users. People who are satisfied generally aren't going to make comments unless they are completely wow'd. I wasn't going to make any comments until I read how nasty people started to get. I thought "Hey I love the new site for mobile, the 2002 design was awful for mobile browsing".....

The truth is now the site can be viewed by multiple devices with a certain level of quality. It's no longer segmented only to desktop users..... Which is really the only way to design if you are wanting to get web tracking and new viewership....

You are going to lose some folks who struggle with the new design. I totally get it, people who are lashing out have a hard time adapting to change. It's not just on here, but in life in general.....

PC509

DatabaseHead said:

You are going to lose some folks who struggle with the new design. I totally get it, people who are lashing out have a hard time adapting to change. It's not just on here, but in life in general.....

I can see people leaving if it's a truly horrible design that just really sucks. But, this isn't bad. It's different. It's very usable, though. Just takes some getting used to, which doesn't take too long.

The content is still here, and the quality of the posts are still top notch, and the people that post are pretty damn awesome.

mikey88

The new website and UI is fine. Old timers complaining about the website are probably the same types that never keep up with the times and wonder why they're out of a job.

"But I've been doing the same thing for 15yrs. I have experience!"

slinuxuzer

mikey88 said:

The new website and UI is fine. Old timers complaining about the website are probably the same types that never keep up with the times and wonder why they're out of a job.

"But I've been doing the same thing for 15yrs. I have experience!"

I love how the sentiment from you and a few others in this thread is that the degraded experience is somehow the user's "fault", you guys sound like a bunch of IT people, the fact is, from a service delivery perspective if you aren't willing to give an adequate level of service to a group of users you are probably better off just ending that line of service, for everyone's sake.

As far as "old timer" and "out of a job" well I have neither of those problems.

It seems to me, you guys prefer tablets and that is fine for you, but the fact is for myself at least, I look at TE when I am working, and as an Architect I can't do my job from a tablet, I require Visio, engineering tools, and a myriad of other things that can't be done from a tablet. I have an IPAD pro that I am looking at right now that I love, but I prefer to use that as an e-reader for books and other things.

I see that the moderators have taken some of the feedback into account and I'm appreciative of that, but overall the sentiment of unwelcome and "Tough ****" mantra from some of you guys here just re-enforces my initial thought that I conveyed in the title, was the title overly dramatic - Yes - it was meant to be so as to draw attention in this thread.

Jon_Cisco

DatabaseHead said:

I honestly think you fall in that legacy type "IT" employee. Batch files, tape back ups, etc.... I really wanted to believe your narrative, but for the life of me I can't.....

Can we try to keep this post about the site and not specific users. I have been here for a number of years and the value is in both the old timers helping out and the new users keeping it interesting.

We don't have to agree on how the interface works but we can discuss our opinions.

I personally use the site only on a desktop. That is not a good or bad thing. I have also bookmarked it on my iphone and while it is perfectly readable there I don't choose to use that method. Does that make me old and out dated possibly. But since we are all on a user form that focuses on certifications and generally contains a group of self motivated IT people I really don't think that is a problem here.

NotHackingYou

Here for the content and community. Will learn the new UI.

DatabaseHead

The whole thing drives me nuts when over half the devices on the internetS are mobile but no complainers mentions how much better that piece is, only about how it doesn't look 2002 on my desktop anymore with dark colors.....

Honestly who are you anyway? It's being kept up running so we can collaborate, how about some appreciation.

I am emphatic to the green screeners to a certain extent but this is over the top. These new admins are engaging, polite and trying to keep this community together. But all you goofs can do is **** about how it's too bright or how it doesn't look like it's from 2002.

Hell the previous admin abandoned the sites for several years now......

I have a hard time believing the people complaining are modern IT professionals which leads me to my AS400, RS6000 server admin assumptions......

draught

I'm going to give them three months and see what happens.

Also https://darkreader.org/ this allows darkmode on EVERY site. Best extension I've found. Thanks to TE changing format.

For the guys that only use mobile how in the heck do you type detailed posts? Mobile is such a hassle to type more than a few sentences.

DZA_

draught said:

I'm going to give them three months and see what happens.

Also https://darkreader.org/ this allows darkmode on EVERY site. Best extension I've found. Thanks to TE changing format.

For the guys that only use mobile how in the heck do you type detailed posts? Mobile is such a hassle to type more than a few sentences.

Up your typing game! I'm kidding. Usually if its longer posts/responses, I usually leave that for the desktop to respond with lengthy posts.

EANx

DatabaseHead said:

The whole thing drives me nuts when over half the devices on the internetS are mobile but no complainers mentions how much better that piece is, only about how it doesn't look 2002 on my desktop anymore with dark colors.....

I would expect the site owners to be able to tell what people are using, OS type and version is a reported statistic. If a company buys a site and pays to move it, I'm going to guess they're interested in knowing how their users consume the site and know the data you're speculating about.

shochan

I just popped a beer and some

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVdMA4QHdUU
WOOHOO!
Cheers & Hi5!

DatabaseHead

EANx said:

DatabaseHead said:

The whole thing drives me nuts when over half the devices on the internetS are mobile but no complainers mentions how much better that piece is, only about how it doesn't look 2002 on my desktop anymore with dark colors.....

I would expect the site owners to be able to tell what people are using, OS type and version is a reported statistic. If a company buys a site and pays to move it, I'm going to guess they're interested in knowing how their users consume the site and know the data you're speculating about.

Of course they did that's why the site is mobile compliant. You don't need analytics to know you are opening up your audience base by using a tool that can scale to all devices.... You mentioned you weren't particular happy either. By your statement it's obvious you were only accessing the site using your desktop/laptop... You would of made note how well the site scales to mobile and tablet if you had.

PS I just typed this message from my home pc and the format looks fine......

SteveLavoie

Well I had 2 problems with the new version of TE, the first it was too narrow.. and it got fixed.

The second one, is as Jon_Cisco said, it is too bright. The older version is easier on the eyes even if it was 2000-era dark gray

Make it less bright, or propose a darker theme, and I would get rid of all my concern.

slinuxuzer

DatabaseHead said:

The whole thing drives me nuts when over half the devices on the internetS are mobile but no complainers mentions how much better that piece is, only about how it doesn't look 2002 on my desktop anymore with dark colors.....

Honestly who are you anyway? It's being kept up running so we can collaborate, how about some appreciation.

I am emphatic to the green screeners to a certain extent but this is over the top. These new admins are engaging, polite and trying to keep this community together. But all you goofs can do is **** about how it's too bright or how it doesn't look like it's from 2002.

Hell the previous admin abandoned the sites for several years now......

I have a hard time believing the people complaining are modern IT professionals which leads me to my AS400, RS6000 server admin assumptions......

Am I the only one whose credentials were removed from their profile during the site update? Those used to be used as clues as to who was from what generation, then you'd know for sure which of us are just too damn old to get it or appreciate the new site. By the way, I'm not one of those. Can I ask what is your solution? Is it for me to quit the site? Quit voicing my opinion? Convert to those who use their phones too much? Because honestly there are some things I purposfully don't use my phone for because technology already controls enough of my life and my main complaint isn't the color scheme, it was the navigation features, some of which have already been fixed.

DatabaseHead

I can't or won't attempt to tell you what to do. Normally if I don't like something I move on from it. The AS400 comments or more of attempt of humor than anything else...... Of course I don't know your age I'm probably older than you... (good chance of it).

My biggest "PEEVE" is the repeated knocks on the site without any mention of upgrades. This isn't productive it's crap to be honest. Take a neutral approach stating the items you would like to see changed and also mention the items you like. If you insults someone's hard work right off the bat you are going to put them on the defensive and most likely won't give you much in return. If you take an objective approach and state both strengths and weaknesses then you'll have a better chance to make a change. You also keep the community a positive place which is the biggest strength of this community, which you completely breached with your post title and overall tone of your post.

These folks were patient let the site remain for years and then made the change. They notified us of the changes and then made them. It's THEIR site they can design it as they want. Sure they asked for feedback, but I can almost guarantee they wanted a professional courtesy response.

The site is now secure
Has auto save so if you step away and come back your information doesn't ghost like the legacy site
Adding pictures and media is much easier on this site the legacy site struggled mightly
Mobile is 100000x better now, it actually has custom view for screen size, a game changer for mobile/blended users
Active admins who seem to actually care
Developers on retainer or at least they pay as needed to make changes they ask US about and are willing to work with us a community, (RARE) (The community wanted text boxes to extend over the full screen or most of it and they delivered in a pretty quick turnaround).
Respond promptly (at least in my experience) to my private messages etc...
I'm missing some others I'm sure.

Sure the site has bugs and they are working on them on what seems to be a daily basis. E.G. the notification when you comment on a post.

Overall I'm shocked how some of the members treated the new management staff and all their efforts. It was pretty classless........

LonerVamp

My biggest peeve is your continued presence in this thread. Stop telling everyone they're essentially stupid and you know what's best. Just let people have their opinions, dude. I'm still here despite my dislike of the design, but your attitude is actually affecting me more...

Jon_Cisco

I respect DatabaseHead opinion and I don't think anyone should be attacking each other over our thoughts of the site.

I tried the dark reader and it is a great little extension. I don't really know if I will use it or not but I installed it and I'll play with it for a while. As for the site they will go on with or without me this is just a place for us to express our feedback.

DatabaseHead

LonerVamp said:

My biggest peeve is your continued presence in this thread. Stop telling everyone they're essentially stupid and you know what's best. Just let people have their opinions, dude. I'm still here despite my dislike of the design, but your attitude is actually affecting me more...

@LonerVamp You must have me confused with someone who actually cares.......

@Jon_Cisco This seemed to be a pain point for several others hopefully this will enhance their experience. It would be cool to have a custom setting for font type, color, background etc.....

slinuxuzer

DatabaseHead said:

I can't or won't attempt to tell you what to do. Normally if I don't like something I move on from it. The AS400 comments or more of attempt of humor than anything else...... Of course I don't know your age I'm probably older than you... (good chance of it).

My biggest "PEEVE" is the repeated knocks on the site without any mention of upgrades. This isn't productive it's crap to be honest. Take a neutral approach stating the items you would like to see changed and also mention the items you like. If you insults someone's hard work right off the bat you are going to put them on the defensive and most likely won't give you much in return. If you take an objective approach and state both strengths and weaknesses then you'll have a better chance to make a change. You also keep the community a positive place which is the biggest strength of this community, which you completely breached with your post title and overall tone of your post.

These folks were patient let the site remain for years and then made the change. They notified us of the changes and then made them. It's THEIR site they can design it as they want. Sure they asked for feedback, but I can almost guarantee they wanted a professional courtesy response.

The site is now secure
Has auto save so if you step away and come back your information doesn't ghost like the legacy site
Adding pictures and media is much easier on this site the legacy site struggled mightly
Mobile is 100000x better now, it actually has custom view for screen size, a game changer for mobile/blended users
Active admins who seem to actually care
Developers on retainer or at least they pay as needed to make changes they ask US about and are willing to work with us a community, (RARE) (The community wanted text boxes to extend over the full screen or most of it and they delivered in a pretty quick turnaround).
Respond promptly (at least in my experience) to my private messages etc...
I'm missing some others I'm sure.

Sure the site has bugs and they are working on them on what seems to be a daily basis. E.G. the notification when you comment on a post.

Overall I'm shocked how some of the members treated the new management staff and all their efforts. It was pretty classless........

Personally I prefer feedback to be blunt, I have thick skin and I'd rather just hear it straight, title aside, I don't think insults were conveyed in my post, was I critical of how and what upgrades were rolled out, yes, because I think they got many things wrong. Were there improvements of course there were, I never denied that. So if you are reading my post as a "S*** post" then I think that is just how you are perceiving it. As far as this being "their" site, you don't have a site without consumers, so I think your comments should lend a little more weight to the fact that those who are displeased, do in fact have a right to be displeased, voice their opinion and be heard, that is just good customer service.

Make no mistake when I come to this site and get the privilege of viewing the content I want, I also see advertisements, so I am in fact a customer and a paying one at that, by way of these ads being monetized. I also spend a considerable amount of personal money per year on training and an even larger amount of company money on training, working at a VAR we are trained to death, so when you ask "who are you anyway" - well friend, I am exactly the type of person the owners want to advertise to, someone who has a training budget behind him many multiples above the annual average, weather I like it or not.

DatabaseHead

@slinuxuzer - I'm worn out and @LonerVamp wants me to shut the BEEP up so I'll be moving along from this post...... I'm squashing this between us from my end, nothing personal.....

Maybe you are thicker skinned than me and maybe I read you wrong, but I just felt a major pile on though out the post and IMO it wasn't called for...

@shochan You seems to pop a lot of beer and popcorn in my threads......

Meggo

I wanted to step in here and thank everyone for the comments (and support) shared so far. I'm super excited to see how much everyone cares about this community. We understand your comments are to help us make the community better. We read ALL of them (really), and will continue to release improvements overtime.

@triplea I asked Vanilla about this and while there isn't a solution now, they are releasing a "mute" future in the near future. In the meantime, I can delete your comment and that should remove you from future notifications. Please let me know if you'd like me to proceed.

thomas_

I guess I’m one of the weird people who used the old site and now this site primarily on mobile. I had quite a few conplaints even though I’ve hardly used the desktop version since the change to the new site.

It does seem like the site is slowly getting better though.

Mooseboost

I viewed the forum on mobile frequently. The majority of my browsing was mobile and my posting on desktop, I don't this is uncommon. Mobile posting I keep to limited responses, the same way I do reddit or any other media. I would guess that 80% of my browsing form mobile would be from an iphone while the other 20% is from a tablet. On the older forums, I viewed the forums while mobile as the desktop version. This is not needed for the new format though the changes are going to take some time to get used to.

Meggo

Hey Everyone! Thanks again for all the awesome feedback! I'm going to close this thread and point traffic over to our latest release thread here: https://community.infosecinstitute.com/discussion/134393/new-filtered-category-view-darker-theme-improved-search-access-more

Please drop all your comments/suggestions on that thread. It makes it a little easier for me to manage requests and get projects into our dev queue.