Are SANS event fun?

SteveLavoie

Hi, 

I am looking to book a SANS course (504 or 560). It is a major training expense for my company and I wanted to make sure that it is worth all the 7K$ USD I will give them as I will have to assume a part of the training cost (travel expense).

Is the event well runned, hotel, meal, bonus session, and so on.  I read they don't provide meal on lunch, is it true ? 

I am considering going to the Security East in New Orleans in Feb, which is a bigger event (28 course) with a Netwar tournament.  

JDMurray

There are several different sizes of SANS events. The number of courses being offered, and the size of the venue, will give you an indication of how big it is.

The really big SANS events are very fun and interesting and tiring. Kinda like a cross between a convention, a science fair, and a college career day. If you like to socialize with humans then you'll get even more out of it. If you aren't a social butterfly then you can just wallflower the conversations and still enjoy yourself. I really advise staying in the hotel where the event is so you can stay immersed in the experience for as long as possible.

JoJoCal19

From an event standpoint, they are very well run. Every detail of the events are planned out, and tons of SANS staff are present to support it. I've been to two including their second(?) biggest event, SANS Orlando. They take the experience of the students very seriously (as well they should for as much as they cost). Students are on their own for lunch, but snacks are provided throughout the day. 

SteveLavoie

Thanks you!. At this cost, it is almost like twice the budget compared to go to another event. So I want to be sure  

I think that for the price (7K$), they should have included the lunch, but that's life   

iBrokeIT

At the larger conferences, typically Wednesdays are a Vendor expo that you can sign up for which includes free pizza at the trade off of receiving vendor spam for weeks.  Also Tuesdays and Thursday are lunch and learns with very limited seating and free lunch but you have typically sign up the first day of early registration.

chrisone

SANS WEST in San Diego and SANS Security in Vegas are really fun! 

I could imagine SANS in Orlando would be epic as well as SANS in VA/DC

I would attend any of those cities before landing in New Orleans, just being honest. 

SANS DC - December 2019
https://www.sans.org/event/cyber-defense-initiative-2019

SANS WEST - May 2020
https://www.sans.org/event/security-west-2020

SANS Orlando - April 2020
https://www.sans.org/event/sans-2020

SANS Network Security Las Vegas - Sep 2020

If its only for 2019 budget, I would go to the DC event. Just my personal preference and familiarity with DC. I have zero experience with New Orleans.  

Also for future reference, you can go a work study program to ease the burden of your costs and most likely allow your employer to help you attend 2 SANS events in one year. https://www.sans.org/work-study/

Basically the instructors and coordinators need help with hands on setup and during the class. You get the course for around 1500 I believe, if you sign up and are selected for work study. 

GL !

SteveLavoie

HI, Thanks all for your input

@chrisone  I am looking for the begining of 2020 because it is relatively the best moment when I can leave 1 week without working 20 hours a day. New Orleans is the bigger event at the begining of the year and there is some bonus session at night to keep me busy    And by the way, it is a nice city, I went there for the VeeamON 2017. It is a very different city for USA. 

johndoee

SteveLavoie said:

Hi, 

I am looking to book a SANS course (504 or 560). It is a major training expense for my company and I wanted to make sure that it is worth all the 7K$ USD I will give them as I will have to assume a part of the training cost (travel expense).

Is the event well runned, hotel, meal, bonus session, and so on.  I read they don't provide meal on lunch, is it true ? 
 
I am considering going to the Security East in New Orleans in Feb, which is a bigger event (28 course) with a Netwar tournament.  

Admit, you are going to have fun and you know it. 

Well Runned
I think how the event is run is based upon personal experience. I don't think one individual can speak for the 100 (Live) events around the globe that SANS has and the experiences that each individual at each individual event has...;) 

I had a guy leave negative comments about the course every day and the instructor. The guy complained to SANS staff. I have the paperwork to prove I was there. How do I know he left negative comments? Because I facilitated the event and read them everyday. With that being said, just like colleges, certifications, and cars not everyone thinks that the training SANS provides is great. He complained every day of the event but he wasn't the only one who had a recommendation for better training. That is all I am going to say about that. This was not my first event either.

Look, I asked a while back was anyone attending the New Orleans event when I was going. So I think my input holds some weight considering I attended an event in New Orleans this year. 
 
Hotel
SANS loves to use the same hotels time and time again, for great reasons. With that being said, the event will/should be at the New Orleans Downtown Marriott and Convention Center. The hotel listed previously, was sold out by the time I accepted. The rooms they had left were the expensive $400 a night rooms. Not a big deal. It's about 5 hotels within a 5 minute walk of the convention center. I stayed at another hotel. 

Every weekend it's something going on in New Orleans. Some type of convention, festival, etc. So, I would highly advise reserving your hotel when you know 100% that you are going. When I was eying going, rates were changing and hotels were having issues with bookings. So, since you aren't facilitating stay wherever you want. Get on google maps and find somewhere in YOUR budget and walking distance to the hotel. 

Meal
Where the Marriott is located, on the main hallway it's an exit. Out the exit, what you'll be able to see is a mall. If you walk for 5 minutes you'll be at the mall where it's a large number of (fast food) restaurants upstairs to select from. It's also a large number of restaurants in the area. The restaurants are going to take longer to cook your food, considering the time you'll be allotted it's probably best you eat quick food, somewhere.  Some restaurants won't even be open when you are going to lunch. The hotel will have little edible food out for you. It's not like sandwiches or anything that's going to fill you up. It's like hand foods and fruit. Coffee, Tea, cookies, brownies,  juices, etc. For example, your break is at 12:000. Your instructor lets you out of class at 12:10. The good stuff might be gone. Whatever was out there is now inside of someones stomach. Some instructors are more concerned with finishing the book than you being hungry, rightfully so. I wouldn't call the food they provide a meal. You'll be hungry 45 minutes later. 

Bonus Session
The talking sessions are cool. NetWars is cool. Where you are giving a USB and this that and the third and your whole objective is to be on the winning team (or/and score the most points). They'll provide beer and wine. Nothing heavy. You only get two slips, so that's two drinks. If you tip the hotel staff serving the drinks you might get 10. The NetWars stuff is basic IF you have experience. It's online (free) capture the flag websites that will give you more experience/difficulty IF you have experience than NetWars. Considering all of what I just said, going to a NetWars/Speech isn't going to make a positive or negative impact on your professional development or capture the flag skills. Is it cool to sit around and drink beer and watch points (or lack thereof) accumulate on the screen, yes. Is it fun, yes. Is it 1000 more things to do in New Orleans, YES. I can give you 5 websites that has CTF challenges. I personally don't think paying the extra money is worth it. If it's people that are GOOD, that CTF will be done before you know it LOL. ..although, they'll more than likely let people continue until time runs out. But, who likes coming in 2nd, 3rd, or 7th place anyway..

Other

Some of the best food I've ever had in my LIFE has been in New Orleans. Get on Trip Advisor and look at things to do in New Orleans. Use Uber. I used Uber all around New Orleans. I went to the gym maybe 6 days a week, mall, various restaurants, etc. Don't let your company pay 7K for you not to enjoy the city. Enjoy the city while you are in New Orleans, that is my advice! That lets go eat in town after the conference after I just spend 9hrs with you in class gets old real fast. Enjoy your surroundings and good luck. I had 0 problems or complaints. 

johndoee

To add to that..

90% of the people who attended the New Orleans event fell into these categories:

1. Military 
2. Government 
3. Law Enforcement 
4. Foreign -  Military, Government, or Law Enforcement
5. Google 
6. Agencies with three letters. 

I hear and have heard all of the "networking" opportunities. Cool. But.. take into consideration none of the military recruiters, F_ I recruiters, Google Recruiters, etc are attending this event. I have never in my life heard of anyone getting a job just for attending. The same "networking" you can do at a SANS event you can do by putting GXXX cert in LinkedIN and sending a friend request or message. So, I am not a big promoter of the "networking" sales pitch that is so frequently mentioned with regards to SANS events on this site. That is just personal opinion. You can find any of the people who work for 1-6 on LinkedIN. Trust me on that. 

Ok. Any questions let me know.

SteveLavoie

johndoee said:

Admit, you are going to have fun and you know it. 

Well Runned
I think how the event is run is based upon personal experience. I don't think one individual can speak for the 100 (Live) events around the globe that SANS has and the experiences that each individual at each individual event has...;) 

I had a guy leave negative comments about the course every day and the instructor. The guy complained to SANS staff. I have the paperwork to prove I was there. How do I know he left negative comments? Because I facilitated the event and read them everyday. With that being said, just like colleges, certifications, and cars not everyone thinks that the training SANS provides is great. He complained every day of the event but he wasn't the only one who had a recommendation for better training. That is all I am going to say about that. This was not my first event either.

Look, I asked a while back was anyone attending the New Orleans event when I was going. So I think my input holds some weight considering I attended an event in New Orleans this year. 
 
Hotel
SANS loves to use the same hotels time and time again, for great reasons. With that being said, the event will/should be at the New Orleans Downtown Marriott and Convention Center. The hotel listed previously, was sold out by the time I accepted. The rooms they had left were the expensive $400 a night rooms. Not a big deal. It's about 5 hotels within a 5 minute walk of the convention center. I stayed at another hotel. 

Every weekend it's something going on in New Orleans. Some type of convention, festival, etc. So, I would highly advise reserving your hotel when you know 100% that you are going. When I was eying going, rates were changing and hotels were having issues with bookings. So, since you aren't facilitating stay wherever you want. Get on google maps and find somewhere in YOUR budget and walking distance to the hotel. 

Meal
Where the Marriott is located, on the main hallway it's an exit. Out the exit, what you'll be able to see is a mall. If you walk for 5 minutes you'll be at the mall where it's a large number of (fast food) restaurants upstairs to select from. It's also a large number of restaurants in the area. The restaurants are going to take longer to cook your food, considering the time you'll be allotted it's probably best you eat quick food, somewhere.  Some restaurants won't even be open when you are going to lunch. The hotel will have little edible food out for you. It's not like sandwiches or anything that's going to fill you up. It's like hand foods and fruit. Coffee, Tea, cookies, brownies,  juices, etc. For example, your break is at 12:000. Your instructor lets you out of class at 12:10. The good stuff might be gone. Whatever was out there is now inside of someones stomach. Some instructors are more concerned with finishing the book than you being hungry, rightfully so. I wouldn't call the food they provide a meal. You'll be hungry 45 minutes later. 

Bonus Session
The talking sessions are cool. NetWars is cool. Where you are giving a USB and this that and the third and your whole objective is to be on the winning team (or/and score the most points). They'll provide beer and wine. Nothing heavy. You only get two slips, so that's two drinks. If you tip the hotel staff serving the drinks you might get 10. The NetWars stuff is basic IF you have experience. It's online (free) capture the flag websites that will give you more experience/difficulty IF you have experience than NetWars. Considering all of what I just said, going to a NetWars/Speech isn't going to make a positive or negative impact on your professional development or capture the flag skills. Is it cool to sit around and drink beer and watch points (or lack thereof) accumulate on the screen, yes. Is it fun, yes. Is it 1000 more things to do in New Orleans, YES. I can give you 5 websites that has CTF challenges. I personally don't think paying the extra money is worth it. If it's people that are GOOD, that CTF will be done before you know it LOL. ..although, they'll more than likely let people continue until time runs out. But, who likes coming in 2nd, 3rd, or 7th place anyway..

Other

Some of the best food I've ever had in my LIFE has been in New Orleans. Get on Trip Advisor and look at things to do in New Orleans. Use Uber. I used Uber all around New Orleans. I went to the gym maybe 6 days a week, mall, various restaurants, etc. Don't let your company pay 7K for you not to enjoy the city. Enjoy the city while you are in New Orleans, that is my advice! That lets go eat in town after the conference after I just spend 9hrs with you in class gets old real fast. Enjoy your surroundings and good luck. I had 0 problems or complaints. 

Thanks a lot for this detailled write-up of your experience! After reviewing the 504 vs 560 FAQ, I think I will register for 560 at New Orleans. 560 look a lot more "fun". I am more looking for a geeking vacation And I think I will get it. 

I liked New Orleans in 2017, and I think it should be better than Las Vegas as I am more a foodie than a bar type guy..   

Randy_Randerson

I've been to numerous events, and they are going to be what you make of them. I've seen people complain that it was too much and others who said it is too little. The best ones to me are the Summits (DFIR, Pen Test, OSINT, Purple Team, ICS, etc.) they are typically going to be with your like-minded folks and provide a much more focused interaction with your peers and the instructors. When you go to the big events (Network Security, Orlando, SANSFIRE, CDI) everyone is basically a cockroach and scatter after class is done. Although those are the ones that typically have the best talks from what I've seen. 

If you look on the website, you'll see what talks are going on and what events after-hours are going on. Typically you get like 2 drink tickets and some free apps. So if you're trying to keep the budget down -- there are ways to do it. Lunch 'n Learns are a way to get a free lunch, as others have said -- it is a sales pitch by a vendor. But, hey, it is a free lunch. 

Danielm7

As the others said, it's what you make of it. Same way people say BSides events are great networking and they find jobs, and others say they just show up, watch a few talks and leave. The events are very well run, their quality control is very high top to bottom. They charge an arm and a leg so they need to keep the experience pretty tight. 

The ones I went to have had some military but mostly bigger companies, I'm sure it depends on the location. 

LonerVamp

I did SANS New Orleans earlier this year as well. I can say, I really loved the city in February. I'd never been, and had an absolute blast exploring on foot. Wonderful food, good people, fun music, and beautiful weather for that time of you (I'm not a heat/humidity guy). Previously, I had been to a SANS event in San Diego. I never really needed to explore elsewhere, and San Diego is basically like other cities. But New Orleans actually has character. Get out, even if it's just to wander the area for dinner. The food is awesome!

That said, SANS runs a pretty smooth ship after all these years.

Will you have fun? Fun is up to each person. Some people have fun being with themselves, others need groups. It'll also depend what you want to learn or how challenged you want to be. For me, going to SANS as a private institution employee has been a benefit I'd missed for 10 years, so I've swung into challenging courses when I can, as I never know when this benefit will get yanked away. Some may get frustrated by unexpected challenge, so research your choices carefully.

If you're worried about lunch, I feel like that's a little nitpicky. $15 a day for 7 days...that shouldn't make or break whether you do it or not. That said, I got enough stuff on breaks that I barely needed lunch (extra banana here, extra juice there). Even on the breaks I skipped (everyone loves ice cream break...except me apparently). Also, there are grocery shops north of the hotel just a few blocks away. I always find a shop after arrival to stock up on my own snacks, some toiletries I left behind, and other things to keep me going for a week. Scout the area out on Maps.

Netwars is super fun and a nice way to spend a couple evenings. Feel free to hit up the bar if you see a fellow student there as well. Say hello, have a sazerac...

SteveLavoie

LonerVamp said:

If you're worried about lunch, I feel like that's a little nitpicky. $15 a day for 7 days...that shouldn't make or break whether you do it or not.

Of course it would be real nitpicky to break the deal for 15$ a day. It is mostly a convenience to have food near. Also, I am maybe biased as a VAR, we are often invited by vendor and they make an honor to treat you well (food, drink etc.)