Why are their so many Support Positions in IT?

Basic85

I know it maybe a dumb question but when I'm job searching, almost everything for me at least has the word Support in the title.  Everytime I hear "Support", "Support Engineer", etc I hear the phone ringing.  I currently work in IT Support myself, and it's a call center, trying to escape the call center but I'm stuck, just over 4 years.  Seems like hiring managers are looking for candidates with experience in this and that but how can I get the experience if I can't get the job?  I homelab as well but I have some time constraints.  The second you say "No, I don't have experience in this", than out the door I go, it's like most can learn on the job in about a couple of months.  

I'm in my late 30's, about to approach 40 so scared still no high paying career.  I'm beginning to think IT is not for me, I keep failing the technical test during interviews and have failed cert test as well.  Currently studying for Security+.   I want to get into something else like cybersecurity, networking, or even programming, or possibly something else entirely different. 

Thoughts?  

E Double U

Are there other tech roles at your current employer? 

Basic85

E Double U said:

Are there other tech roles at your current employer? 

I did think about that, maybe level 2 support but for some reason it's hard to get it.  After working for my current company, I don't really want to stay there anymore.  The pay is low and a lot of employees complain about that openly, turnover is high.  

I'm going to start selling myself more in interviews even if I don't know the skill that well like SQL, I'll just say I know it and if they test me and I fail oh well on to the next.  I'm pretty sure the other candidates are doing the same if not worse.  My issues during interviews is that I'm too dame honest.  

I'm seriously considering leaving with nothing lined up and I do have substantial savings.  

DatabaseHead

Learning to code is huge when it comes to these high level roles.  While I like SQL and know it quite well +10 years, stand alone it doesn't bring as much punch to the fight like it used to.  Back in 2010 - 2015 that skill alone fetched me jobs right and left, but IMO that's not the case anymore.  Companies are moving to the cloud and instead of batching data they are moving to streaming.  I have turned full attention to Python and two particular libraries, PySpark and Pandas.  Scala and Java are huge as well.  These are preferred but I have 5 years in Python no way I am going to start over again, lol.  

Just being able to query a database, even complex queries doesn't bring as much to the table anymore.  

volfkhat

Basic85 said:

I know it maybe a dumb question but when I'm job searching, almost everything for me at least has the word Support in the title.  Everytime I hear "Support", "Support Engineer", etc I hear the phone ringing.  I currently work in IT Support myself, and it's a call center, trying to escape the call center but I'm stuck, just over 4 years.  Seems like hiring managers are looking for candidates with experience in this and that but how can I get the experience if I can't get the job?  I homelab as well but I have some time constraints.  The second you say "No, I don't have experience in this", than out the door I go, it's like most can learn on the job in about a couple of months.  

I'm in my late 30's, about to approach 40 so scared still no high paying career.  I'm beginning to think IT is not for me, I keep failing the technical test during interviews and have failed cert test as well.  Currently studying for Security+.   I want to get into something else like cybersecurity, networking, or even programming, or possibly something else entirely different. 

Thoughts?  

There's NO dumb question here


If you've been at the job for that long... but have No Certifications to show for it....  then that's kinda your own fault.

Complacency is a career killer.

I'm glad you're working on your Security+...  but it's only an introductory certification.
the Sec+ (by itself) is NOT going to deliever you something better, 
You need to figure out/ pick a Focus, and then work toward that.

Networking, Cloud, Microsft, Linux, whatever....
just follow your interest.
You say you have a "homelab".  What kind of lab is it? What are you trying to learn?


To be honest,
it kinda sounds like you're only in IT because of the promise of better $$$.
That desire alone... is okay to have; but it may NOT be enough to get you to your goal.


Maybe you're right.... perhaps consider finding something outside of IT.
Perhaps trade school? be a Plumber or Electrician or something?
I've heard they make decent money.

Whatever you do... choose wisely... the "clock" is ticking.


For what it's worth,
i didnt get into Networking until i was 38 years old; so you definitely still have time to find the right fit.
But i was lucky... i picked a specialty that turned out to be really Interesting to me.
That's what kept me motivated.


Oh, whatever you do....  it sounds like you may need to find a new employer regardless.

Once upon a time (long ago) i breifly thought about getting out of I.T. altogether. But it turned out... it was the job ( at the time) that was really the problem.
I made a lateral move to somewhere else, and things immediately became much better.

How much do you make currently?

E Double U

What type of technologies does your employer use? Depending on what you have access to, that might be a good place to start. If you're in a Cisco shop, see if you can get access to a test environment and go in that direction. If your employer is using any cloud service providers, then start learning those skills with all of the free material offered (I know AWS and Azure have plenty of content available). You just have to choose something and move forward. 

Good luck!

Basic85

volfkhat said:

Basic85 said:

I know it maybe a dumb question but when I'm job searching, almost everything for me at least has the word Support in the title.  Everytime I hear "Support", "Support Engineer", etc I hear the phone ringing.  I currently work in IT Support myself, and it's a call center, trying to escape the call center but I'm stuck, just over 4 years.  Seems like hiring managers are looking for candidates with experience in this and that but how can I get the experience if I can't get the job?  I homelab as well but I have some time constraints.  The second you say "No, I don't have experience in this", than out the door I go, it's like most can learn on the job in about a couple of months.  

I'm in my late 30's, about to approach 40 so scared still no high paying career.  I'm beginning to think IT is not for me, I keep failing the technical test during interviews and have failed cert test as well.  Currently studying for Security+.   I want to get into something else like cybersecurity, networking, or even programming, or possibly something else entirely different. 

Thoughts?  

There's NO dumb question here


If you've been at the job for that long... but have No Certifications to show for it....  then that's kinda your own fault.

Complacency is a career killer.

I'm glad you're working on your Security+...  but it's only an introductory certification.
the Sec+ (by itself) is NOT going to deliever you something better, 
You need to figure out/ pick a Focus, and then work toward that.

Networking, Cloud, Microsft, Linux, whatever....
just follow your interest.
You say you have a "homelab".  What kind of lab is it? What are you trying to learn?


To be honest,
it kinda sounds like you're only in IT because of the promise of better $$$.
That desire alone... is okay to have; but it may NOT be enough to get you to your goal.


Maybe you're right.... perhaps consider finding something outside of IT.
Perhaps trade school? be a Plumber or Electrician or something?
I've heard they make decent money.

Whatever you do... choose wisely... the "clock" is ticking.


For what it's worth,
i didnt get into Networking until i was 38 years old; so you definitely still have time to find the right fit.
But i was lucky... i picked a specialty that turned out to be really Interesting to me.
That's what kept me motivated.


Oh, whatever you do....  it sounds like you may need to find a new employer regardless.

Once upon a time (long ago) i breifly thought about getting out of I.T. altogether. But it turned out... it was the job ( at the time) that was really the problem.
I made a lateral move to somewhere else, and things immediately became much better.

How much do you make currently?

I enjoy IT and working this field, it's mainly this job that's killing me, IT call centers are no joke, I'm suprised I made it this long.  

Money is a good factor in almost any field though that wasn't the main reason why I wanted to be in IT, I enjoy technology and working with it. 

In my mind, I'm thinking I focus on one thing and become good at it but than employer want's something else, it's like what gives?  I can't be the jack of all trades though I feel like it sometimes.  

I've also gotten very little time to interview without possibly getting into trouble at my current job.  People say, "Doctors appointment" but how many times can you use that?  I need more time to interview because at this point for me at least, it's a numbers game and this job is getting in my way so I may ask for an earlier shift like 5am-2pm, that way I can schedule interviews say at 2:30pm.  At this point I'm ready to risk it in order to gain it all, meaning risk getting fired at my current job.  

How much do I make?
It's not much, very little, probably minimum wage, in fact fast food workers make more than me, it's right under $20 an hour.  

E Double U

Basic85 said:

volfkhat said:

Basic85 said:

I know it maybe a dumb question but when I'm job searching, almost everything for me at least has the word Support in the title.  Everytime I hear "Support", "Support Engineer", etc I hear the phone ringing.  I currently work in IT Support myself, and it's a call center, trying to escape the call center but I'm stuck, just over 4 years.  Seems like hiring managers are looking for candidates with experience in this and that but how can I get the experience if I can't get the job?  I homelab as well but I have some time constraints.  The second you say "No, I don't have experience in this", than out the door I go, it's like most can learn on the job in about a couple of months.  

I'm in my late 30's, about to approach 40 so scared still no high paying career.  I'm beginning to think IT is not for me, I keep failing the technical test during interviews and have failed cert test as well.  Currently studying for Security+.   I want to get into something else like cybersecurity, networking, or even programming, or possibly something else entirely different. 

Thoughts?  

There's NO dumb question here


If you've been at the job for that long... but have No Certifications to show for it....  then that's kinda your own fault.

Complacency is a career killer.

I'm glad you're working on your Security+...  but it's only an introductory certification.
the Sec+ (by itself) is NOT going to deliever you something better, 
You need to figure out/ pick a Focus, and then work toward that.

Networking, Cloud, Microsft, Linux, whatever....
just follow your interest.
You say you have a "homelab".  What kind of lab is it? What are you trying to learn?


To be honest,
it kinda sounds like you're only in IT because of the promise of better $$$.
That desire alone... is okay to have; but it may NOT be enough to get you to your goal.


Maybe you're right.... perhaps consider finding something outside of IT.
Perhaps trade school? be a Plumber or Electrician or something?
I've heard they make decent money.

Whatever you do... choose wisely... the "clock" is ticking.


For what it's worth,
i didnt get into Networking until i was 38 years old; so you definitely still have time to find the right fit.
But i was lucky... i picked a specialty that turned out to be really Interesting to me.
That's what kept me motivated.


Oh, whatever you do....  it sounds like you may need to find a new employer regardless.

Once upon a time (long ago) i breifly thought about getting out of I.T. altogether. But it turned out... it was the job ( at the time) that was really the problem.
I made a lateral move to somewhere else, and things immediately became much better.

How much do you make currently?

I've also gotten very little time to interview without possibly getting into trouble at my current job.  People say, "Doctors appointment" but how many times can you use that?  I need more time to interview because at this point for me at least, it's a numbers game and this job is getting in my way so I may ask for an earlier shift like 5am-2pm, that way I can schedule interviews say at 2:30pm.  At this point I'm ready to risk it in order to gain it all, meaning risk getting fired at my current job.  

Hiring managers understand that applicants have to work around their current work schedule. At least for the phone screening, I have been able to do them early in the morning before work or even during lunch breaks. For face-to-face, I've even been able to have interviews at the end of the business hours. If something is very promising and you really want to go for it, then use some PTO for interviews if you must. Since covid, I don't think I've been on a face-to-face interview so I assume other employers can accomodate that. 

Basic85

E Double U said:

Basic85 said:

volfkhat said:

Basic85 said:

I know it maybe a dumb question but when I'm job searching, almost everything for me at least has the word Support in the title.  Everytime I hear "Support", "Support Engineer", etc I hear the phone ringing.  I currently work in IT Support myself, and it's a call center, trying to escape the call center but I'm stuck, just over 4 years.  Seems like hiring managers are looking for candidates with experience in this and that but how can I get the experience if I can't get the job?  I homelab as well but I have some time constraints.  The second you say "No, I don't have experience in this", than out the door I go, it's like most can learn on the job in about a couple of months.  

I'm in my late 30's, about to approach 40 so scared still no high paying career.  I'm beginning to think IT is not for me, I keep failing the technical test during interviews and have failed cert test as well.  Currently studying for Security+.   I want to get into something else like cybersecurity, networking, or even programming, or possibly something else entirely different. 

Thoughts?  

There's NO dumb question here


If you've been at the job for that long... but have No Certifications to show for it....  then that's kinda your own fault.

Complacency is a career killer.

I'm glad you're working on your Security+...  but it's only an introductory certification.
the Sec+ (by itself) is NOT going to deliever you something better, 
You need to figure out/ pick a Focus, and then work toward that.

Networking, Cloud, Microsft, Linux, whatever....
just follow your interest.
You say you have a "homelab".  What kind of lab is it? What are you trying to learn?


To be honest,
it kinda sounds like you're only in IT because of the promise of better $$$.
That desire alone... is okay to have; but it may NOT be enough to get you to your goal.


Maybe you're right.... perhaps consider finding something outside of IT.
Perhaps trade school? be a Plumber or Electrician or something?
I've heard they make decent money.

Whatever you do... choose wisely... the "clock" is ticking.


For what it's worth,
i didnt get into Networking until i was 38 years old; so you definitely still have time to find the right fit.
But i was lucky... i picked a specialty that turned out to be really Interesting to me.
That's what kept me motivated.


Oh, whatever you do....  it sounds like you may need to find a new employer regardless.

Once upon a time (long ago) i breifly thought about getting out of I.T. altogether. But it turned out... it was the job ( at the time) that was really the problem.
I made a lateral move to somewhere else, and things immediately became much better.

How much do you make currently?

I've also gotten very little time to interview without possibly getting into trouble at my current job.  People say, "Doctors appointment" but how many times can you use that?  I need more time to interview because at this point for me at least, it's a numbers game and this job is getting in my way so I may ask for an earlier shift like 5am-2pm, that way I can schedule interviews say at 2:30pm.  At this point I'm ready to risk it in order to gain it all, meaning risk getting fired at my current job.  

Hiring managers understand that applicants have to work around their current work schedule. At least for the phone screening, I have been able to do them early in the morning before work or even during lunch breaks. For face-to-face, I've even been able to have interviews at the end of the business hours. If something is very promising and you really want to go for it, then use some PTO for interviews if you must. Since covid, I don't think I've been on a face-to-face interview so I assume other employers can accomodate that. 

I would hope most hiring managers understand, but I've encountered a few that didn't.  They think I could just drop everything and go talk to them.  It's just an interview not an offer so I may not get one nor I may not accept the offer if one is made.  I had missed a few interviews already due to this job, one in particular was with the government,  they would not budge on the time for the phone interview, so the only tims they had were when I was working.  Next time, if I receive an opportunity for an interview with a job that I really want, I'm going by any means necessary.  

volfkhat

Ive heqrd that many Goverment Positions actually care about the Secuirty+ certifiction...

So i take back my comment about "the Sec+ alone" wont get you anywhere.

It certain can for some lucky individuals!


If your current gig has NO Future... then you should NOT be missing any job inteviews lol

So you make maybe $40,000 a year?

i see job postings for crappy desktop technicians roles that pay $60k.

So...yeah, you got to get out of there.
But make sure it's to a place with a long term Future for your "specialty".


Again:
"You say you have a "homelab".  What kind of lab is it? What are you trying to learn?"

You didnt answer that.
If the money wasnt a factor... What would youLIKE to do in I.T.?

Basic85

volfkhat said:

Ive heqrd that many Goverment Positions actually care about the Secuirty+ certifiction...

So i take back my comment about "the Sec+ alone" wont get you anywhere.

It certain can for some lucky individuals!


If your current gig has NO Future... then you should NOT be missing any job inteviews lol

So you make maybe $40,000 a year?

i see job postings for crappy desktop technicians roles that pay $60k.

So...yeah, you got to get out of there.
But make sure it's to a place with a long term Future for your "specialty".


Again:
"You say you have a "homelab".  What kind of lab is it? What are you trying to learn?"

You didnt answer that.
If the money wasnt a factor... What would youLIKE to do in I.T.?

I've done mainly virtual machines with Windows 2022 server and linux.  Configuring Windows server and learning the commands for linux.  I've also taken many udemy courses as my company offers them for free.  

You're right I shouldn't be missing interviews, the thing is at that time I didn't want to be a bad employee either (missing work, calling out sick all the time, coming back from breask late, etc) but at some point I'm going to have to risk it.  I've seen past co-workers straight up called out two days in row to attend interviews, if I did that than it would have to be an almost guarantee of an offer.  

I see myself as a system/network adminstrator, maybe cybersecurity and some programming but definitely not staying in helpdesk call center.  I like government jobs and have applied to many.  

Moon Child

I been in tech some years now and this is what I have seen. I see a lot of guys get hired in as helpdesk that don't make it past that stage or go to other fields that pay better than their salary as helpdesk. These are often guys with bachelor's in Computer Science/ Information systems. They have certifications A+, N+, S+, Microsoft, Cisco etc. They work their butt of a few years as helpdesk but despite their Computer Science degree and certs management doesn't feel they have the skills to go any higher than helpdesk so they don't get promoted. So they give up a lot of times on IT abandoning their college degree and certs all together and go into another field like sales, or the police force, or join an electricians appreticeship program.  Or worse they have their Computer Science degree and certs and they get fired on the job as a helpdesk tech. From my personal experience I have seen this happen with probably over a dozen people I have worked with.

My feelings are not positive in the Tech Industry from what I have seen. I am still working in it because I invested so much in it and I still am able to keep down a job in IT. Higher paying jobs than helpdesk are hard to land in IT from what I have seen, many try and many fail and give up. A Computer Science degree, certifications, and helpdesk experience gives you only a small chance of maybe being promoted from what I have observed if your lucky.

JDMurray

Help Desk is just a job to help you get a better job. It's not meant as a career path. Use Help Desk (or Customer Service or Jr System Admin) to get into a company that you want to work for, network with people in departments that interest you, and then pivot to a better role ASAP.

Moon Child

I will say also the motivation to move up from helpdesk or support roles to networking roles can be discouraging too in my area not only because of the lack of opportunities, but because of the lack of pay increase.

I see support positions from 30k - 50k a year in my state, across the border to another state it is 50k - 70k.  I will see opportunities for network admin or junior admin jobs, but I see the pay like 40-50k the exact same as a support position in my state. I commute an hour to work and cross state lines to work because I know I am being paid 20k more in that state to do the same helpdesk support job.

These jobs wanting a computer degree A+, N+, S+ , Microsoft and Cisco CCNA certs and at least 5 years of previous IT experience can be discouraging if all they are asking for as junior network admin, network techician, or network admin position is 40-60k a year salary. That salary sucks. Especially since you can have all the credentials and experience and still have a hard time being promoted into these jobs. Compared to other jobs in my area that 40-60k salary really sucks. Nurses start off where I am at right out of college at like 75k a year and move up to 90k easily, truck drivers start at 50k and move to 100k easily, factory work easily 40-50k a year, the police force is hiring at a 90k a year starting salary. I have seen a lot of co-workers leave IT for jobs that pay them a lot better.

Another option is to do what a co-worker of mine did. Stay in support, but get a 2nd full time job so you can have that 100k a year salary. He works a 50k a year support job 8-5, but then afterwards goes to a night job doing factory work for actually a little more than 50k a year. He got his bachelors in Computer Science, but he says his 2nd job doing factory work actually pays him better. He has been working 2 full time jobs for past 4 years and he says he makes over a 100k a year. He could never get out of helpdesk support so he just stayed in that job role since he found a way anyway to still make his 100k a year salary that he wanted. If I can't get out of helpdesk I might do exactly what he did to get  that bigger annual salary.

JDMurray

Off-shoring IT jobs to overseas workers, who will work for much cheaper wages than workers in the USA, has had an impact on domestic IT wages--especially in the states where higher wages are more common. Offshoring was expedited by domestic workers demanding 100% remote-work jobs. This has had the long-term effect of lowering their wages because now their jobs can be done by a much larger pool of workers anywhere in the world.

It seems now the higher-paying jobs must be 100% on-site where only local workers can be hired and from a very limited talent pool. You may have to pivot to a career path where hands-on work is also high-paying work.

volfkhat

Moon Child said:

I been in tech some years now and this is what I have seen. I see a lot of guys get hired in as helpdesk that don't make it past that stage or go to other fields that pay better than their salary as helpdesk. These are often guys with bachelor's in Computer Science/ Information systems. They have certifications A+, N+, S+, Microsoft, Cisco etc. They work their butt of a few years as helpdesk but despite their Computer Science degree and certs management doesn't feel they have the skills to go any higher than helpdesk so they don't get promoted. So they give up a lot of times on IT abandoning their college degree and certs all together...

I am still working in it because I invested so much in it and I still am able to keep down a job in IT. Higher paying jobs than helpdesk are hard to land in IT from what I have seen, many try and many fail and give up. A Computer Science degree, certifications, and helpdesk experience gives you only a small chance of maybe being promoted from what I have observed if your lucky.

imo,
LYING is definitely the Best way to get ahead.

Figure out the Job/role that you want (Jr admin blah blah)... and then edit your resume to make it look like you are ALREADY doing it at your current job.

Obviously, you will still need to put in the WORK to truly understand the Subject Matter that you claim to deal with.

That way,  if you can land a job interview where they actually do a thorough Technical Screening... then you will be able to stand out & Shine amongst the competition.


I remember a coworker who once told me how he became a successful Oracle DBA.

5-7 years earlier, he claimed to be  a knowledgable database administrator.
But in reality... he never even had the position before.
But his resume said otherwise!

He was able to get a job... but only made it 6 months before they fired him.
But for those 6 months, he made a very Nice salary!
More importantly, he paid his buddy to teach him how to do his job. his buddy was back in india... which was 12 hours ahead.
So the guy would never do any actual work during his work day... but then overnight, he'd get his buddy to do/show everything for him.
As you can imagine... this guy was basically working 18-20 hour days.

But like i said, he got revealed for being a fraud, and was fired.
His next job... RINSE & REPEAT.
he told me he lasted about 1 year before he got fired.

Rinse & Repeat;
his 3rd job, he made it over 2 years before getting axed.
As you can see... he was able to get incrementally better at each new position.

By the time i finally met him several years later... he was  actually Competent at his job. he wasn't a Senior or anything... but he was definitely able to do his job.

Was he wrong?
Probably.

Would he do it all again?
Probably.

but can you argue with the results?


As the addage goes...

Fake it till you Make it!

Moon Child

volfkhat said:

Moon Child said:

I been in tech some years now and this is what I have seen. I see a lot of guys get hired in as helpdesk that don't make it past that stage or go to other fields that pay better than their salary as helpdesk. These are often guys with bachelor's in Computer Science/ Information systems. They have certifications A+, N+, S+, Microsoft, Cisco etc. They work their butt of a few years as helpdesk but despite their Computer Science degree and certs management doesn't feel they have the skills to go any higher than helpdesk so they don't get promoted. So they give up a lot of times on IT abandoning their college degree and certs all together...

I am still working in it because I invested so much in it and I still am able to keep down a job in IT. Higher paying jobs than helpdesk are hard to land in IT from what I have seen, many try and many fail and give up. A Computer Science degree, certifications, and helpdesk experience gives you only a small chance of maybe being promoted from what I have observed if your lucky.

imo,
LYING is definitely the Best way to get ahead.

Figure out the Job/role that you want (Jr admin blah blah)... and then edit your resume to make it look like you are ALREADY doing it at your current job.

Obviously, you will still need to put in the WORK to truly understand the Subject Matter that you claim to deal with.

That way,  if you can land a job interview where they actually do a thorough Technical Screening... then you will be able to stand out & Shine amongst the competition.


I remember a coworker who once told me how he became a successful Oracle DBA.

5-7 years earlier, he claimed to be  a knowledgable database administrator.
But in reality... he never even had the position before.
But his resume said otherwise!

He was able to get a job... but only made it 6 months before they fired him.
But for those 6 months, he made a very Nice salary!
More importantly, he paid his buddy to teach him how to do his job. his buddy was back in india... which was 12 hours ahead.
So the guy would never do any actual work during his work day... but then overnight, he'd get his buddy to do/show everything for him.
As you can imagine... this guy was basically working 18-20 hour days.

But like i said, he got revealed for being a fraud, and was fired.
His next job... RINSE & REPEAT.
he told me he lasted about 1 year before he got fired.

Rinse & Repeat;
his 3rd job, he made it over 2 years before getting axed.
As you can see... he was able to get incrementally better at each new position.

By the time i finally met him several years later... he was  actually Competent at his job. he wasn't a Senior or anything... but he was definitely able to do his job.

Was he wrong?
Probably.

Would he do it all again?
Probably.

but can you argue with the results?


As the addage goes...

Fake it till you Make it!

OK I have thought about that option too. The problem with that strategy is if you have a lot of bills and wife demands you have a steady job... but I do have a CDL and truck driving experience to fall back on if all else fails.

I think I will just pass some higher level certs I have always wanted anyway just for the fun of it and if I still am in helpdesk... oh well. At least I will have bragging rights. i have higher level certs that guys in higher positions can't pass or don't have.

It is weird I have seen a guy walk in with no college degree, no previous IT experience, no certifications get hired on the spot as a jr network admin supervising guys with all kinds of experience, computer certs, and computer science degrees who are just helpdesk guys. He had the right personality for the job I was informed. The guy quit after one month on the job, but still it seems an  unfair process sometimes.

volfkhat

Moon Child said:

OK I have thought about that option too. The problem with that strategy is if you have a lot of bills and wife demands you have a steady job... but I do have a CDL and truck driving experience to fall back on if all else fails.

I think I will just pass some higher level certs I have always wanted anyway just for the fun of it and if I still am in helpdesk... oh well. At least I will have bragging rights. i have higher level certs that guys in higher positions can't pass or don't have.

It is weird I have seen a guy walk in with no college degree, no previous IT experience, no certifications get hired on the spot as a jr network admin supervising guys with all kinds of experience, computer certs, and computer science degrees who are just helpdesk guys. He had the right personality for the job I was informed. The guy quit after one month on the job, but still it seems an  unfair process sometimes.

It's definitely UNFAIR....

And now that we've established this.... What are YOU going to do about it?


If you want to be More... you gotta REACH for more.

No RISK... No Reward.

EDIT:
Where do you live?
Are you in an urban area with HIGH population density?
Or are you someplace otherwise?
Your proximity to opportunity definitely plays a factor

UnixGuy

volfkhat said:

imo,
LYING is definitely the Best way to get ahead.

.
.
.
As the addage goes...

Fake it till you Make it!

I 100% disagree with all of this. I know many people believe in that. Those same people come to me later complaining about "imposter syndrome"

I never had to lie or fake anything. I put in the time, studied, learned, did training, did certs, studied after hours, and then got to my goal. And I don't have and syndrome

the compounding effect of this approach is that I have confidence in myself that if I wanted to accomplish something I know I can put in the work and make it happen. 


each to their own

E Double U

Moon Child said:

volfkhat said:

Moon Child said:

I been in tech some years now and this is what I have seen. I see a lot of guys get hired in as helpdesk that don't make it past that stage or go to other fields that pay better than their salary as helpdesk. These are often guys with bachelor's in Computer Science/ Information systems. They have certifications A+, N+, S+, Microsoft, Cisco etc. They work their butt of a few years as helpdesk but despite their Computer Science degree and certs management doesn't feel they have the skills to go any higher than helpdesk so they don't get promoted. So they give up a lot of times on IT abandoning their college degree and certs all together...

I am still working in it because I invested so much in it and I still am able to keep down a job in IT. Higher paying jobs than helpdesk are hard to land in IT from what I have seen, many try and many fail and give up. A Computer Science degree, certifications, and helpdesk experience gives you only a small chance of maybe being promoted from what I have observed if your lucky.

imo,
LYING is definitely the Best way to get ahead.

Figure out the Job/role that you want (Jr admin blah blah)... and then edit your resume to make it look like you are ALREADY doing it at your current job.

Obviously, you will still need to put in the WORK to truly understand the Subject Matter that you claim to deal with.

That way,  if you can land a job interview where they actually do a thorough Technical Screening... then you will be able to stand out & Shine amongst the competition.


I remember a coworker who once told me how he became a successful Oracle DBA.

5-7 years earlier, he claimed to be  a knowledgable database administrator.
But in reality... he never even had the position before.
But his resume said otherwise!

He was able to get a job... but only made it 6 months before they fired him.
But for those 6 months, he made a very Nice salary!
More importantly, he paid his buddy to teach him how to do his job. his buddy was back in india... which was 12 hours ahead.
So the guy would never do any actual work during his work day... but then overnight, he'd get his buddy to do/show everything for him.
As you can imagine... this guy was basically working 18-20 hour days.

But like i said, he got revealed for being a fraud, and was fired.
His next job... RINSE & REPEAT.
he told me he lasted about 1 year before he got fired.

Rinse & Repeat;
his 3rd job, he made it over 2 years before getting axed.
As you can see... he was able to get incrementally better at each new position.

By the time i finally met him several years later... he was  actually Competent at his job. he wasn't a Senior or anything... but he was definitely able to do his job.

Was he wrong?
Probably.

Would he do it all again?
Probably.

but can you argue with the results?


As the addage goes...

Fake it till you Make it!

OK I have thought about that option too. The problem with that strategy is if you have a lot of bills and wife demands you have a steady job... but I do have a CDL and truck driving experience to fall back on if all else fails.

I think I will just pass some higher level certs I have always wanted anyway just for the fun of it and if I still am in helpdesk... oh well. At least I will have bragging rights. i have higher level certs that guys in higher positions can't pass or don't have.

It is weird I have seen a guy walk in with no college degree, no previous IT experience, no certifications get hired on the spot as a jr network admin supervising guys with all kinds of experience, computer certs, and computer science degrees who are just helpdesk guys. He had the right personality for the job I was informed. The guy quit after one month on the job, but still it seems an  unfair process sometimes.

Your outlook makes me feel bad. Passing certification for bragging rights!?!? I would rather be one of those guys in the higher positions over the guys full of themselves for being paper collectors (full disclosure: I have lots of certs as well lol). I take full advantage of learning opportunities presented to me and knock out the related certifications. That in combination with new skills I learn on the job gets added to the resume and then I put it out into the job market to see what type of responses I get. 

I have been in IT related roles for 20+ years and the people that I have seen do well are the ones that apply themselves accordingly. I have applied for jobs I didn't fully qualify for, landed them, and surpassed the guys who had been in the role for years. Having the right attitude for a role means more than people realize. There are lots of people that are sufficient at their job, but are not demonstrating that they have potential to raise the bar. Some people will remain where they are and will not do anything about it so it is what it is. 

I am transparent about what my weak areas are during an interview while leaning heavily into my strengths. I don't have to lie on my resume, but have no issue with others doing it if they deem it necessary. Faking it until making it is not about lying in my opinion, but rather going all in despite any knowledge/skills deficit. Just reach high and see what happens. If I fail, I will learn from it then move on. 

Moon Child

E Double U said:

Moon Child said:

volfkhat said:

Moon Child said:

I been in tech some years now and this is what I have seen. I see a lot of guys get hired in as helpdesk that don't make it past that stage or go to other fields that pay better than their salary as helpdesk. These are often guys with bachelor's in Computer Science/ Information systems. They have certifications A+, N+, S+, Microsoft, Cisco etc. They work their butt of a few years as helpdesk but despite their Computer Science degree and certs management doesn't feel they have the skills to go any higher than helpdesk so they don't get promoted. So they give up a lot of times on IT abandoning their college degree and certs all together...

I am still working in it because I invested so much in it and I still am able to keep down a job in IT. Higher paying jobs than helpdesk are hard to land in IT from what I have seen, many try and many fail and give up. A Computer Science degree, certifications, and helpdesk experience gives you only a small chance of maybe being promoted from what I have observed if your lucky.

imo,
LYING is definitely the Best way to get ahead.

Figure out the Job/role that you want (Jr admin blah blah)... and then edit your resume to make it look like you are ALREADY doing it at your current job.

Obviously, you will still need to put in the WORK to truly understand the Subject Matter that you claim to deal with.

That way,  if you can land a job interview where they actually do a thorough Technical Screening... then you will be able to stand out & Shine amongst the competition.


I remember a coworker who once told me how he became a successful Oracle DBA.

5-7 years earlier, he claimed to be  a knowledgable database administrator.
But in reality... he never even had the position before.
But his resume said otherwise!

He was able to get a job... but only made it 6 months before they fired him.
But for those 6 months, he made a very Nice salary!
More importantly, he paid his buddy to teach him how to do his job. his buddy was back in india... which was 12 hours ahead.
So the guy would never do any actual work during his work day... but then overnight, he'd get his buddy to do/show everything for him.
As you can imagine... this guy was basically working 18-20 hour days.

But like i said, he got revealed for being a fraud, and was fired.
His next job... RINSE & REPEAT.
he told me he lasted about 1 year before he got fired.

Rinse & Repeat;
his 3rd job, he made it over 2 years before getting axed.
As you can see... he was able to get incrementally better at each new position.

By the time i finally met him several years later... he was  actually Competent at his job. he wasn't a Senior or anything... but he was definitely able to do his job.

Was he wrong?
Probably.

Would he do it all again?
Probably.

but can you argue with the results?


As the addage goes...

Fake it till you Make it!

OK I have thought about that option too. The problem with that strategy is if you have a lot of bills and wife demands you have a steady job... but I do have a CDL and truck driving experience to fall back on if all else fails.

I think I will just pass some higher level certs I have always wanted anyway just for the fun of it and if I still am in helpdesk... oh well. At least I will have bragging rights. i have higher level certs that guys in higher positions can't pass or don't have.

It is weird I have seen a guy walk in with no college degree, no previous IT experience, no certifications get hired on the spot as a jr network admin supervising guys with all kinds of experience, computer certs, and computer science degrees who are just helpdesk guys. He had the right personality for the job I was informed. The guy quit after one month on the job, but still it seems an  unfair process sometimes.

Your outlook makes me feel bad. Passing certification for bragging rights!?!? I would rather be one of those guys in the higher positions over the guys full of themselves for being paper collectors (full disclosure: I have lots of certs as well lol). I take full advantage of learning opportunities presented to me and knock out the related certifications. That in combination with new skills I learn on the job gets added to the resume and then I put it out into the job market to see what type of responses I get. 

I have been in IT related roles for 20+ years and the people that I have seen do well are the ones that apply themselves accordingly. I have applied for jobs I didn't fully qualify for, landed them, and surpassed the guys who had been in the role for years. Having the right attitude for a role means more than people realize. There are lots of people that are sufficient at their job, but are not demonstrating that they have potential to raise the bar. Some people will remain where they are and will not do anything about it so it is what it is. 

I am transparent about what my weak areas are during an interview while leaning heavily into my strengths. I don't have to lie on my resume, but have no issue with others doing it if they deem it necessary. Faking it until making it is not about lying in my opinion, but rather going all in despite any knowledge/skills deficit. Just reach high and see what happens. If I fail, I will learn from it then move on. 

I work well beyond my regular 8-5 hours. Starting sometimes at 7am and leaving somedays as late as 9 at night. I have come in on weekends many times on the job. All extra time put in job without extra pay for it. A lot of extra time I put in that I don't see others putting in on the job. All I do is study when I come home now for certifications. I already have one Master's Degree but I am seriously thinking about either getting an MBA or Masters in information systems. I did well enough of the GMAT to get into several MBA programs.

But your right I am not working hard enough. I will get that MBA to complement my already one Master's degree along with a CCNA and some other higher level certifications. If I am still helpdesk so be it.

E Double U

Moon Child said:

E Double U said:

Moon Child said:

volfkhat said:

Moon Child said:

I been in tech some years now and this is what I have seen. I see a lot of guys get hired in as helpdesk that don't make it past that stage or go to other fields that pay better than their salary as helpdesk. These are often guys with bachelor's in Computer Science/ Information systems. They have certifications A+, N+, S+, Microsoft, Cisco etc. They work their butt of a few years as helpdesk but despite their Computer Science degree and certs management doesn't feel they have the skills to go any higher than helpdesk so they don't get promoted. So they give up a lot of times on IT abandoning their college degree and certs all together...

I am still working in it because I invested so much in it and I still am able to keep down a job in IT. Higher paying jobs than helpdesk are hard to land in IT from what I have seen, many try and many fail and give up. A Computer Science degree, certifications, and helpdesk experience gives you only a small chance of maybe being promoted from what I have observed if your lucky.

imo,
LYING is definitely the Best way to get ahead.

Figure out the Job/role that you want (Jr admin blah blah)... and then edit your resume to make it look like you are ALREADY doing it at your current job.

Obviously, you will still need to put in the WORK to truly understand the Subject Matter that you claim to deal with.

That way,  if you can land a job interview where they actually do a thorough Technical Screening... then you will be able to stand out & Shine amongst the competition.


I remember a coworker who once told me how he became a successful Oracle DBA.

5-7 years earlier, he claimed to be  a knowledgable database administrator.
But in reality... he never even had the position before.
But his resume said otherwise!

He was able to get a job... but only made it 6 months before they fired him.
But for those 6 months, he made a very Nice salary!
More importantly, he paid his buddy to teach him how to do his job. his buddy was back in india... which was 12 hours ahead.
So the guy would never do any actual work during his work day... but then overnight, he'd get his buddy to do/show everything for him.
As you can imagine... this guy was basically working 18-20 hour days.

But like i said, he got revealed for being a fraud, and was fired.
His next job... RINSE & REPEAT.
he told me he lasted about 1 year before he got fired.

Rinse & Repeat;
his 3rd job, he made it over 2 years before getting axed.
As you can see... he was able to get incrementally better at each new position.

By the time i finally met him several years later... he was  actually Competent at his job. he wasn't a Senior or anything... but he was definitely able to do his job.

Was he wrong?
Probably.

Would he do it all again?
Probably.

but can you argue with the results?


As the addage goes...

Fake it till you Make it!

OK I have thought about that option too. The problem with that strategy is if you have a lot of bills and wife demands you have a steady job... but I do have a CDL and truck driving experience to fall back on if all else fails.

I think I will just pass some higher level certs I have always wanted anyway just for the fun of it and if I still am in helpdesk... oh well. At least I will have bragging rights. i have higher level certs that guys in higher positions can't pass or don't have.

It is weird I have seen a guy walk in with no college degree, no previous IT experience, no certifications get hired on the spot as a jr network admin supervising guys with all kinds of experience, computer certs, and computer science degrees who are just helpdesk guys. He had the right personality for the job I was informed. The guy quit after one month on the job, but still it seems an  unfair process sometimes.

Your outlook makes me feel bad. Passing certification for bragging rights!?!? I would rather be one of those guys in the higher positions over the guys full of themselves for being paper collectors (full disclosure: I have lots of certs as well lol). I take full advantage of learning opportunities presented to me and knock out the related certifications. That in combination with new skills I learn on the job gets added to the resume and then I put it out into the job market to see what type of responses I get. 

I have been in IT related roles for 20+ years and the people that I have seen do well are the ones that apply themselves accordingly. I have applied for jobs I didn't fully qualify for, landed them, and surpassed the guys who had been in the role for years. Having the right attitude for a role means more than people realize. There are lots of people that are sufficient at their job, but are not demonstrating that they have potential to raise the bar. Some people will remain where they are and will not do anything about it so it is what it is. 

I am transparent about what my weak areas are during an interview while leaning heavily into my strengths. I don't have to lie on my resume, but have no issue with others doing it if they deem it necessary. Faking it until making it is not about lying in my opinion, but rather going all in despite any knowledge/skills deficit. Just reach high and see what happens. If I fail, I will learn from it then move on. 

I work well beyond my regular 8-5 hours. Starting sometimes at 7am and leaving somedays as late as 9 at night. I have come in on weekends many times on the job. All extra time put in job without extra pay for it. A lot of extra time I put in that I don't see others putting in on the job. All I do is study when I come home now for certifications. I already have one Master's Degree but I am seriously thinking about either getting an MBA or Masters in information systems. I did well enough of the GMAT to get into several MBA programs.

But your right I am not working hard enough. I will get that MBA to complement my already one Master's degree along with a CCNA and some other higher level certifications. If I am still helpdesk so be it.

Extra time without pay??? 7am to 9pm??? Weekends???

Sounds to me that "not working hard " isn't the issue LOL. You already have a masters and thinking of getting another. I am starting to believe you are just trolling (apologies if this is not so). With your "still on helpdesk so be it" attitude, I cannot begin to imagine why you need more education. It sounds like you are content with helpdesk so just embrace it. You metioned your wife demanding you have a steady job, but it sounds like you already have it. If all you do is study when you are home, but you are not advancing then I don't understand why you do it. You mentioned having bills, but if you are not getting overtime pay for the additional hours then you are nuts. If you don't see others putting it these hours that tells me it isn't required so the problem is you.

volfkhat

I don't think he's T-Rol-ling.
His storyline seems reasonable.

he's done alot over the past 20(?) years...
he just never broke through the helpdesk.

Hence, my advice to 'embellish' his job title (if he still has the drive to continue I.T.)
Following the rules... hasn't worked for him...
so it's time to "Do as the Romans".

But with that being said... he never answered the obvious:
Where does he live?
Is he in an urban area with HIGH population density?
Or is he far far away from better opportunities.

Along with age...
these details matter.