Need advice (Schooling vs Career)

Obviously certifications and formal education will only help you, that is a given, but after 11 years I have to say you might be doing something else wrong. You should have been able to move beyond desktop support long ago if you really put yourself into it. Is your resume up to speed? How are your interviewing skills? Are you selling yourself on the job to be promoted an given more responsibility?

My resume is up to speed and current, I always make sure it shows a forward momentum. My interview skills are pretty good, I never had any bad feedback and always get complimented on personality. My last job I was with started out as a contractor then I got hired on permanently I was there about 5 years. It was a cement manufacturing business, and the way the economy has been the potential to move further wasnt available. I always took charge in projects and set examples. I have expressed multiple times about my passion for moving forward. I am in the Midwest, so IT jobs can be scarce to come by at times. But getting back out here in the market with more "degree/cert experienced people" I think makes it tough as well.

I am seeing alot of positions requiring BS degree's and specific certs (CCNA, MCSA, etc etc) which I think gets my resume overlooked.

Every job I've ever had required something I didn't have on my resume. I wouldn't let that hold you back. If there aren't jobs where you are then maybe it's time to start looking into relocating to where the jobs are. You can't get a job that doesn't exist!

I'd definitely recommend to anyone to always continue getting qualifications. So, if you have the ability to work on a degree then go for it. Same with certifications. They will only help your chances.

dehgrah

I agree with networker, but you should just mainly press for Certs at this point in your career (11yrs!) you have a degree whether it's accredited or not but this will only be a factor if you're looking into a Management role and then I would suggest you go for your Bachelors,ITIL,PMP,Project+ etc (Keep in mind you can attend WGU and they will pay for all you're required certs listed in their curriculum)... But if you're looking to move into the Senior level roles I would choose a path between Network Administrator or Senior System Administrator. There is no reason you should still be in desktop support not unless you are a Senior Level Desktop Support. I'm 4 years into I.T and I'm already a Systems Admin/Systems Support Specialist.

I agree with both of you, unfortunately most of the jobs I have had were contract jobs that only last I would say a year or less. The current contract I am at is with a fortune 500 company they offered me a position but the problem here is they are only offering $37k when right now I am making $50k a year as a contractor. The position is 25+ miles away after taxes, health benefits, I would be making the equivalent of about 32k a year. That would be a BIG downgrade and I would not be able to do it financially. Besides that would show a Downword momentum on the resume as this is a End User support position.

I think the area here has a big part of it ( Kansas City, MO) but it also seems alot of the positions offered are wanting somebody with higher experience I do not have for example sys admin here: MCSE, CCNA, BS degree, Juniper, Citrix server experience, etc etc alot of them seem to be following this path. Almost as a engineering role. Now I know job titles are just that "Titles" but I think these companies are not really knowing what they want exactly.

"I'd definitely recommend to anyone to always continue getting qualifications. So, if you have the ability to work on a degree then go for it. Same with certifications. They will only help your chances."

I agree with this 100% I just need to see what would be the best route or carry more weight per say to make me competitive.

Here is a copy of my current resume, please critique if you would like. This might explain a little better with what I am trying to accomplish.

Attachment not found.

resume(edited).pdf

ITdude84 wrote: »

I agree with this 100% I just need to see what would be the best route or carry more weight per say to make me competitive.

That is a hard question to answer and has been debated a million times here. What it all comes down to is what is the person reading your resume looking for? No one can answer that except the person reading it. I know when I look at a resume I'm looking first and foremost at experience. Certifications would probably be next on the list. I never look whether a person has a degree or not personally and couldn't tell you if the last few people we have interviewed had one or not. Other people I'm sure take a different approach though.

Yet its definitely a tough decision to make and I guess in theory doing both a degree and certs would help more than hurt. I want to see what others have done in the past that worked so I can better gauge a decision. Cost/time will always be a factor as well. Judging from my resume, where should I be at (position wise) right now in your opinion?

NetworkVeteran

networker050184 wrote: »

couldn't tell you if the last few people we have interviewed had one or not. Other people I'm sure take a different approach though.

Certainly. I have a degree, and have had no trouble demanding a premium for it in technical roles. A CS or EE degree has been a requirement in the job postings I've applied to, and the vast majority of my co-workers have one.

The degree never expires and has been one of the best investments in my career.

That said, you're 11 years in with an A+, so a good certification would likely be the fastest way out of your rut.

ITdud84" wrote:

I always make sure it shows a forward momentum.

Inflation is ~3%/year. That means, a salary increase from $37,000 to $50,000 over that time period is really no increase at all. I worry that your slight forward progress is so slight as to be imperceptible to a casual observer.

I always make sure it shows a forward momentum.

"Inflation is 3%/year. That means, a salary increase from $37,000 to $50,000 over that time period is really no increase at all. I worry that your slight forward progress is so slight as to be imperceptible to a casual observer."

If I took the current offer it would definitely set me back further. and I do not want to hurt my chances of moving up at a later time. I personally feel its the contract work thats hurting me alot as well, these jobs that only have a specific goal/job specific role with no intention on moving somebody up or paying for worth. (We all go threw that) I know if I get my CCNA/NP MCSA/SE that will open up more doors, but a company is going to want experience more than anything else.

Since both of you are networking guys thats (more of what I want to advance in) would you recommend a path and for me to follow which will also set me up to where I can cross over into security at a later time? Thats why I think a computer science degree mind come in as well. I plan to get the security+ but I doubt that will open up alot of doors compare to the other network certs that have more weight. ( may open up government contracts, but we know how that is)

The first thing I would do is find a position with more networking responsibilities. Again, you might have to to go to where the jobs are if there aren't any where you are.

what position would you recommend? should I skip N+ and go to CCNA?

NinjaBoy

I can't vote as the option that I would suggest isn't there:

C. Go back to work and study part-time for both your certs and your degree.

The best (and worse) of both worlds.

You get the (higher) experience reflected by the professional certs and backed by the degree.

Keep the suggestions and votes coming guys.

I voted work on certs, but I think you should go to WGU. While I generally tout computer science and am working towards that myself, I think at this point in your career you need to go for certs, immediately, and WGU will get some certs and a degree at the same time.

Also, I'm wondering if your AAS was truly unaccredited. My understanding is it can't be called a degree unless it has some kind of accreditation. More likely, it would be nationally accredited, and WGU may actually take some of your credits. A traditional school will be unlikely to take them for anything but electives, if at all.

ptilsen wrote: »

I voted work on certs, but I think you should go to WGU. While I generally tout computer science and am working towards that myself, I think at this point in your career you need to go for certs, immediately, and WGU will get some certs and a degree at the same time.

Also, I'm wondering if your AAS was truly unaccredited. My understanding is it can't be called a degree unless it has some kind of accreditation. More likely, it would be nationally accredited, and WGU may actually take some of your credits. A traditional school will be unlikely to take them for anything but electives, if at all.

Yea its nationally accredited my apologies, those don't transfer to regionally accredited schools. Thats what I mean when I said my degree wasn't accredited, sorry for the confusion. I have been thinking about WGU very seriously... I'm just very cautious after what happened the first time with the first school. Its between WGU and a local university here ( Park University (park.edu) )

My best advice is to find a position that you want to be at within 5 years.

Now, work backwards from that position, and fill in everything required to get there.

Have you found that point you want to be at in 5 years? What does that job description look like? What experiences and skills should you have by the time you take that job? Keep in mind that volunteer experience is good experience, and people you volunteer with today may suggest you for a hire tomorrow.

Heck, your five year goal may turn into self-employment. Work backwards from that point. You may get there sooner than you thought.

WGU will generally take credits from nationally accredited AAS programs, even though it is regionally accredited. I think it is likely to be the most bang for your buck, by far.

ITdude84 wrote: »

Yea its nationally accredited my apologies, those don't transfer to regionally accredited schools. Thats what I mean when I said my degree wasn't accredited, sorry for the confusion. I have been thinking about WGU very seriously... I'm just very cautious after what happened the first time with the first school. Its between WGU and a local university here ( Park University (park.edu) )

Yeah, I didn't realize that nationally accredited wasn't the best until I attempted to go to grad school ... what a way to find out! Oh well, you live and you learn. I just make sure to advise everyone else I get a chance to that there is indeed a difference regarding transferability or acceptance into regionally accredited programs. This is a big point to consider before entering a nationally accredited program.

Also, before you make a secondary mistake, computer science or computer engineering are much better majors than information technology or information systems. We do laud WGU here (Heck, I'm a graduate myself!), but be clear on what your degree program entails (and what you expect to do with it) prior to embarking upon it.

Degrees and certs are not magic bullets. Still, I can see how you may do good to add some certs that accent your experience, and probably at a lesser cost than pursuing a degree. Of course, this depends on if you are the self-study type or not. If you can self-study, then you could even try WGU. Of course, I'd want to point out that self-study is the best way to get ahead in this field, that is, advancing yourself while others are standing still.

Before you get any certs, make sure you plug them into your favorite job search engine, and see how many job hits return as a result. No point in getting something that isn't a keyword for recruiters in the geography you are targeting. You should also be way more skilled than any certification that you possess. The certifications should confirm a baseline of knowledge that you have.

Hope this helps.

instant000 wrote: »

Also, before you make a secondary mistake, computer science or computer engineering are much better majors than information technology or information systems. We do laud WGU here (Heck, I'm a graduate myself!), but be clear on what your degree program entails (and what you expect to do with it) prior to embarking upon it.

Agreed here, but I really think WGU is going to be a better fit for ITdude's life position. He's well into an infrastructure career, but is stuck due partially to lack of credentials. Certainly, CS is a better credential, but that will take four years and won't get him much of anything in the meantime, and frankly CS isn't for everyone. WGU is going to get him a four-year degree in 1-3 years, and a bunch of certs and the infrastructure skills that go with them to boot. I really think it's a good fit in this case.

Overall, though, instant000 has some good advice. Figure out what you want to do. If you come back with something like "software developer," then CS might be worth another look.

ptilsen wrote: »

...I really think WGU is going to be a better fit for ITdude's life position... I really think it's a good fit in this case...

I agree with you.

I was so busy talking about both sides of the issues that I never really took a side! Time to run for office!

Thank you guys for the awesome information. I want to get more into the networking side that seems to be what interests me the most. Keep in mind I will be going threw hell because I am not very good at math and a CS degree has a heavy emphasis on math stuff I have never seen before! (Linear algebra, discrete mathematics, etc etc) These are the two programs I am looking at:

Park University ( Information and Computer Science) (Network & Security emphasis)

WGU- The CS in Network Administration seems to be more of a "bang for your buck" considering the amount of certs you pick up in the process.

eventually once I get the networking stuff down packed I wont to later transfer over into the security side. Those seem to be my two interests. I just need to get the skills/experience so I can move forward and not stay stale like I have been doing. I'm one of those I can self study, but the slightest noise or whatever throws me off every time... (lol personal flaw) but I am willing to put in the work and get it done. It will be a long hard road, but that's what separates the men from the boys.

CS is probably not for you if the math is daunting. The Park University program is very much a traditional CS degree. The curriculum is almost identical to mine. You would spend your first 3-5 semesters (depending on your pace) learning programming and math that will be 80% not applicable to networking. You'd be unlikely to have any bandwidth for getting certs on the side unless you went at a very slow pace. I know I have basically no time for certs right now, and I've been taking 8-12 credits, and I'm pretty decent with advanced math and already knew programming concepts going in.

Would you recommend the WGU path with the Network Administration emphasis? If I went the Information technology route, I dont think that would align me with a networking future but maybe a analyst or management path?

f0rgiv3n

Yes! I say go for it all my friend. Continue working, go to school and get certs. Then you get all three: experience, certs and a solid degree. BLAM!

extriquek

Wgu is the way to go.

Yes I plan to do the schooling and cert path, more than likely threw WGU (its makes logical sense get the best of both worlds) and I can still work and continue getting credentials. Now, in regards to the degree path computer science vs information technology degree I have seen alot of the jobs out here wanting a computer science degree, but what is the information technology once mostly geared for? (career wise)?

The IT degree is geared towards working in server/network administration, which you said you wanted to do.

At this point, the IT degree is just more practical, as it is in the same direction as your career work so far. You already said that you did not feel thrilled about doing the math, and most every computer science program requires linear algebra and/or discrete math, so I am not seeing a practical way around that. The issues I see is that CS requires a lot of math, and there are not many accelerated programs for CS.

The issue is more about what you want to do.

The below article compares computer science, information technology, and information systems.

Computer Information Systems vs Computer Science | GetEducated.com

Hope this helps.

Unless you change your mind about taking lots of math classes, the IT degree makes more sense.