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The current state of IT today
si20
Member Posts: 543 ■■■■■□□□□□
When I started out in IT, back in 2016 (wow, 10 years ago! Where has time gone??) It was a time where 1st line support was mostly telephone support e.g logging calls, password resets etc. 2nd line support was physically going to a site and resolving an issue whether it was a printer problem, or something not working on Windows XP at the time. Sometimes you'd be able to jump onto active directory and resolve some issues there. 3rd line support was for the more involved stuff e.g creating OU's and groups in active directory, ensuring permissions were correct and cascading down etc.
Fast forward 10 years and this is what I personally see in my area:
1st line support roles don't really exist now, at least in the same way. They want you to have an ITIL cert and log calls as a first responder. They also want you to be aware of Windows 10's features and the way it works. They might even require a little networking too. I've even see some first line roles ask for knowledge of servers.
2nd line support - Most 2nd line roles i've seen are very, very heavily network-orientated. I've seen 2nd line roles asking for MCSE and CCNA's. To me - that always used to be a 3rd line role. I'd only ever met one 2nd line guy in my career who had an MCSE and he said his MCSE was useless for second line.
I have seen a massive surge in SOC roles (I personally spent 2.5 years in a SOC role across two different companies). I guess this is due to security breaches, but being honest, I think SOC's are a comical joke. A SOC is only as good as the rules you have and the people in it - i've seen some extremely obvious strains of malware missed by rookies.
I've been unemployed since August and i'm actually finding it hard to get back into work because of the shift in IT. Because i'm not ITIL certified (I failed by one mark, see my thread here), employers seem a bit reluctant to try me. I've not got a CCNA (never really been into networking to that kind of level) and i'm only just getting around to Microsoft's server track. I'd never step foot in another SOC again if I could help it - but where does that leave me?
This has turned into more of a rant than anything else. But it's very interesting to me how ITIL has changed the landscape so much so, that most graduates are ending up in SOC jobs as their first gig, rather than working their way up through 1st, 2nd and 3rd line roles. I'm not a big fan of the way the industry is going. Everything seems strange now compared to 10 years ago. I'm not even saying it's ITIL's fault, but ITIL has a lot to do with it. The IT industry is definitely an ever-changing industry but sometimes I sit back and wonder if that's a good thing or not.
Fast forward 10 years and this is what I personally see in my area:
1st line support roles don't really exist now, at least in the same way. They want you to have an ITIL cert and log calls as a first responder. They also want you to be aware of Windows 10's features and the way it works. They might even require a little networking too. I've even see some first line roles ask for knowledge of servers.
2nd line support - Most 2nd line roles i've seen are very, very heavily network-orientated. I've seen 2nd line roles asking for MCSE and CCNA's. To me - that always used to be a 3rd line role. I'd only ever met one 2nd line guy in my career who had an MCSE and he said his MCSE was useless for second line.
I have seen a massive surge in SOC roles (I personally spent 2.5 years in a SOC role across two different companies). I guess this is due to security breaches, but being honest, I think SOC's are a comical joke. A SOC is only as good as the rules you have and the people in it - i've seen some extremely obvious strains of malware missed by rookies.
I've been unemployed since August and i'm actually finding it hard to get back into work because of the shift in IT. Because i'm not ITIL certified (I failed by one mark, see my thread here), employers seem a bit reluctant to try me. I've not got a CCNA (never really been into networking to that kind of level) and i'm only just getting around to Microsoft's server track. I'd never step foot in another SOC again if I could help it - but where does that leave me?
This has turned into more of a rant than anything else. But it's very interesting to me how ITIL has changed the landscape so much so, that most graduates are ending up in SOC jobs as their first gig, rather than working their way up through 1st, 2nd and 3rd line roles. I'm not a big fan of the way the industry is going. Everything seems strange now compared to 10 years ago. I'm not even saying it's ITIL's fault, but ITIL has a lot to do with it. The IT industry is definitely an ever-changing industry but sometimes I sit back and wonder if that's a good thing or not.
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networker050184
Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
The whole 1st, 2nd, 3rd line, level, tier, whatever you want to call it is pretty subjective from company to company so pretty hard to make generalizations in my opinion.An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made. -
Optionssi20
Member Posts: 543 ■■■■■□□□□□
I totally agree but in my opinion it has blurred even more nowadays. I'm constantly having to fork out money to the likes of Microsoft or CompTIA to keep my skillset current. I know that has always been the case, but employers seem to be offering lesser salaries as a result of this. For example, i've seen some first line roles paying as low as 17k (£) because someone desperate enough for the cash will take it. I just wonder how things are going to pan out - with more automation and a constant stream of people wanting to get into IT, are the days of good money over? It sure seems that way to me.
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scaredoftests
Mod Posts: 2,780 Mod
I don't feel like ITIL has anything to do with it. There are plenty of jobs out there that don't require ITIL to be hired. Also, there are 1st tier jobs (I am assuming-entry level). I just think it depends on what area you live in.Never let your fear decide your fate.... -
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NetworkNewb
Member Posts: 3,298 ■■■■■■■■■□
are the days of good money over? It sure seems that way to me.
Seems opposite to me. So many people want to get into IT, but few actually put in a lot of work. Those that actually have the drive and skills that companies demand can make a ton right now. -
Optionsnetworker050184
Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
Be one of those guys that automate things. There will always be money for the people with the cutting edge skills. Follow the market etc. The days of good money sure aren't over for me! I've stayed on top of the cloud stuff, automation, NFV, etc.
Are the days of getting paid a lot of money for doing (relatively) low tech work over? Probably if they ever even existed. Not to be harsh, but after 10 years you're still working those kind of jobs you have no one to blame but yourself for not moving up.An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made. -
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Iristheangel
Mod Posts: 4,133 Mod
Hi si90,
I read your comment in another recent thread and sorry to hear that you've fallen on some bad times this year. A lot of the folks on this forum are located in the United States so our experience with the field probably is drastically different. In my case and in the case of many others in the field, I've seen almost a deficit of skilled folks so there's a lot of open jobs and not enough skilled folks to fill it in certain places in the US. It's helped drive up the wages/salaries for some folks and definitely created some opportunity. I know a few folks in the UK though who have the exact opposite problem. Not saying that it's blanket across the industry but location matters. Because the IT field is doing great in major US metro areas but more stale in certain places in the UK doesn't mean the state of the industry is horrible or great. More just subjective to where you're trying, what part of IT you're in, what skills you hold, etc.
I hope the new year treats you better though. Good luck, my friend -
Optionssi20
Member Posts: 543 ■■■■■□□□□□
Thanks I appreciate it. I think the situation in the UK is significantly different to the US by the sound of things. And the fact i've been down on my luck has definitely coloured my view of the industry. I hope things will pick up in the new year. I'm feeling a little bit more confident now seeing as I just passed the Linux+ and i'm embarking on the Server Fundamentals course. I think this should help me gain employment in the new year.
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Welly_59
Member Posts: 431
1st line in uk can go as low as £15500, that's what I'm currently getting paid! And that's including tasks such as active directory maintenance, ms exchange housekeeping, account creation. Many of which is seen as traditional 2nd line tasks -
OptionsQuench24
Member Posts: 96 ■■□□□□□□□□
I'm not so sure I want to be an administrator anymore. Once everything is set up, it tends to run and stay up with minimal problems.
Am I wrong?
Maybe Help Desk would offer more opportunities to work on technologies that are breaking.
Or I could become a Web Developer, but that is harder than Kimbo Slice. -
OptionsWelly_59
Member Posts: 431
Helpdesk is only good as an introduction to the industry. All you are doing is resolving user issues.
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Moon Child
Member Posts: 197 ■■■□□□□□□□
It is funny supposedly there are a lot of jobs in IT and I majored in IT for my undergrad, but getting any IT job seems much tougher than other fields. I got an expired teaching license I will renew over the next year and my masters in Education for example and I have been on/off working toward my post bachelorate certificate in accounting. I have been applying to jobs in all three areas. Funny I don't even have an accounting degree, haven't even completed my accounting certification and yet when I apply to basic bookkeeping jobs that pay like $15/hr I seem to get a lot of interest. That interest seems to have increased since I passed the Mos Excel certification and put that also on resume. I just list on resume -certificate in accounting almost complete along with my Mos Excel certification. That alone seems to gets employers emailing me for basic bookkeeping jobs. I have previous work experience in IT, all kinds of IT certs, a bachelor's in CIS and no interest at all from employers for IT positions.
I am getting emails and phone interviews for teaching jobs, but of course when I tell them I need to renew my teaching license all hopes of the job goes. Decent paying paraprofessional jobs are plentiful and I have had several places in Chicago emailing asking me if I wanted to be a para for their school. More than anything I wanted to get back into IT, but you kind of have to go where the fish are biting. My dream is to get back in IT but in the meantime I am going to renew my teaching license and finish my certification in accounting because that is where it seems I am getting the most interest from employers.
If there is this huge shortage of IT professionals, I am not seeing it. From my own experience the current state of of the IT profession seems to be headed to less jobs and more certs and degrees even to get into due to an oversupply of IT workers. That is what my gut instinct seems to be telling me, maybe my gut is wrong.... the world seems full of good men--even if there are monsters in it. - Bram Stoker, Dracula -
Optionssi20
Member Posts: 543 ■■■■■□□□□□
1st line in uk can go as low as £15500, that's what I'm currently getting paid! And that's including tasks such as active directory maintenance, ms exchange housekeeping, account creation. Many of which is seen as traditional 2nd line tasks
I'm glad someone here can relate to it. This is definitely a UK issue rather than a USA issue. No offence, but £15,500 for what you're doing is insane. When I was an IT Technician, I knew people getting paid £28-32k for what you're currently doing.
And this is my point. In the UK, so many roles are asking for you to understand so many different technologies and not pay you accordingly. I was looking at a Linux administrator role which was paying 18k - it wanted to you be an expert in proxy servers e.g Squid and HP, it wanted you to fully understand IP tables and linux administration and even asked for the RHCE. Tell me what respectable RHCE is going to apply for an 18k job.
It's a sad state of affairs in the UK. Sometimes I think it's wrong when people say there's a shortage of people with IT skills - I actually find the opposite in the UK. -
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volfkhat
Member Posts: 1,054 ■■■■■■■■□□
I just read your linked thread (ITIL).
I'm not going to say that UncleB (aka, Ian) is Definitely a T.R.O.L.L...
but i'm pretty sure i saw him under a bridge :]
With that being said... he did make one insightful point:there is [always] going to be local 1st line support needed but 3rd line support will eventually just fade away into a few, highly contested roles with low salaries.
To me the writing has been on the wall for years (since AWS started replacing servers in their droves in a company I worked in, and with Microsoft Azure/Office-365 it is just gathering momentum.
It Definitely gives me pause...
(https://aws.amazon.com/free/?tag=viglink20307-20) -
OptionsWelly_59
Member Posts: 431
yeah it is literally a fight to the top in the UK at the moment. You have to move to progress and take new opportunities when presented with them
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Optionslucashgarcia
Member Posts: 9 ■□□□□□□□□□
Hi, MCSE Messaging from Brazil here. I am specialized on Exchange and Windows Servers in General, with a good knowledge of others technologies like Hyper-V, Vmware and Lync/SKYPE.
In our country, the IT Market usually requires you to be certified at least on one technology Vendor, to have a good knowledge in English (fluency sometimes required) And sometimes, Spanish (You guys knows that we speak portuguese, right ?
), because the major part of these companies are from Europe or USA, with some Latin American Headquarters too. Its not uncommon to see companies that requires MBA or Post-Graduation level in the IT Area too, specially the ones related to PMP/ITIL/COBIT Management Process. My impression is that here the companies have a LOT of requirements even for simple and entry level positions...
I am working on ITIL and Vmware certifications right now to open new horizons for me. I dont know the American Market, but it seems to me that if you have a nice background on the common areas (Microsoft, Linux, Vmware and ITIL) you will maximizes your chances. I work in a German Company based on my city, and since it have other plants around the world, I can tell you that these technologies are used on all of them.
Good luck! -
Optionsrevbox
Member Posts: 90 ■■■□□□□□□□
ITIL to me is one of those things that is just popular in the moment. Every now and then, comes along a new acronym that everyone thinks is this new school way of thought that is equal to enlightenment. In reality, it's more of an eloquent, drawn-out version of the phrase "use common sense". Much like Six Sigma before it (and Lean Six Sigma after that), in a few years it will be replaced by something else that is "revolutionary".
I have no hate for those who consider themselves disciples of ITIL. I too will get my Foundations cert. However, basing a technician hire on their certified ITIL prowess to me is just asinine. I can understand if you want your SDM/SDLC type folk to have that skill (and probably higher than the Foundation level). Maybe I'm just salty. I know of a site that had a major security incident this past year. Months earlier I remember speaking to one of their leadership folk who I asked what standard their facility conformed to (thinking it would be some ISO level). They informed me that they followed ITIL best practices. Since then, I've heard this repeated by several other colleagues across the country. Anyone who believes ITIL has anything to do with proper security practices needs to be beaten with a fugging baseball bat. -
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Verities
Member Posts: 1,162
I'm glad someone here can relate to it. This is definitely a UK issue rather than a USA issue. No offence, but £15,500 for what you're doing is insane. When I was an IT Technician, I knew people getting paid £28-32k for what you're currently doing.
And this is my point. In the UK, so many roles are asking for you to understand so many different technologies and not pay you accordingly. I was looking at a Linux administrator role which was paying 18k - it wanted to you be an expert in proxy servers e.g Squid and HP, it wanted you to fully understand IP tables and linux administration and even asked for the RHCE. Tell me what respectable RHCE is going to apply for an 18k job.
It's a sad state of affairs in the UK. Sometimes I think it's wrong when people say there's a shortage of people with IT skills - I actually find the opposite in the UK.
Based on my experiences, only a paper tiger RHCE would. Its pretty much expected here in the US that if you have RHCE you're in or just under the six figure salary range. The good thing about the Linux field is the high demand and low supply giving rise to huge salaries, the bad is they expect you to know everything under the sun. That means you're studying and labbing all the things you aren't familiar with. For me that's been about 20-100+ hours for each new technology added to my skill set. By the way, Squid is easy to learn, but I've never touched HAProxy...however I see it on every Linux related job posting. Here's basically what employers want to see you familiar with for a six figure salary ($120k+):
Dev Ops / Reliability Engineer (Linux) job - The Control Group - San Diego, CA | Indeed.com -
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9bits
Member Posts: 138 ■■□□□□□□□□
I don't even know what ITIL is (heard it mentioned on these boards before, but that's it). Never had an employer ask about it either. Maybe it's just a UK thing?
IT is definitely more competitive now than it used to be, but I don't think you necessarily have to work ten times harder than the next guy. You just have to be smarter about your choices, about which certs you go after, about which skills you decide to learn. Figure out what the market needs the most and go become good in that area. -
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chopsticks
Member Posts: 389
@OP. keep it going and don't give up. When you need help, this is the community you can depend on. Lastly, up your chin and get ready to cheer for the day when you got your ITIL cert!
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OptionsMoon Child
Member Posts: 197 ■■■□□□□□□□
moon child, what experience do you have in the IT field?
Well the experience comes down to less than 2 years. I was thinking it was more than that, but I decided to try to get exact dates for everything. I have been playing around with computers since I was like 16 though. It is frustrating these guys at the Geek Squad at Best Buy have computer jobs, yet I can do a better job than some of them I have encountered. I got friends and co-workers who took there computer their only to be disappointed. They came to me and I fixed what they didn't fix, oh well.
I can probably get a job doing bookkeeping without even having an accounting degree or any experience, I just have not been following up on employers who have emailed me back for those jobs because I really want IT, but if something doesn't pan out shortly with the IT job search I am going to give in and take a bookkeeping job. I need the money.
edit: lol I was throwing in the towel before gave myself a chance, just landed an IT job Yeah ... the world seems full of good men--even if there are monsters in it. - Bram Stoker, Dracula
