What jobs will you never get without a degree?

If I don't get a degree, and just get certs, will I be blocked from hospital / government / military type infosec jobs?

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There will always be certain jobs that require a degree but in IT, there aren't any broad categories that require a degree across the industry. For instance, you won't be a professional engineer, architect, nurse, doctor, etc. without the degree. There's nothing that broad across IT. The better places understand that a degree can serve as a substitute for a bit of experience (and vice versa) but that there's little to gain by insisting someone has a degree without limiting your candidate pool to the point it's detrimental.

cdx

IMO in the world of IT, it's more of about who you know and if you can do your job.

A degree is more to get your foot in the door and land an interview, or get a management position.

NetworkingStudent

You could be blocked from some organizations. Some companies do require a 4 year degree.

Everything you have on your resume helps you become a more favorable job candidate:
Certs, experience,education. Each one of these items can give you edge over the other job candidates applying for the same job.

chmod

I think most likely you will have a hard time in the goverment sector.

TechGuru80

bhoops wrote: »

If I don't get a degree, and just get certs, will I be blocked from hospital / government / military type infosec jobs?

In general...large corporations will either close the door on you before an interview, or your progress will get halted at some level within the organization.

High level manager positions at large companies are basically not attainable, probably MOST manager positions in general if not all, and potentially the high level technical positions. Of course everything depends on the company, your skill set, etc....but of the several organizations I have been employed by, my statement has been consistent.

Cisco Inferno

I recommend at least an associates. Many community colleges make a bulk of their AA/AS programs cisco, microsoft, and comptia. This makes it easier to complete and will keep you interested. Maybe 5 gen ed classes tops.

imfrom51

NetworkingStudent wrote: »

You could be blocked from some organizations. Some companies do require a 4 year degree.

This is very true. I think that this is an incredibly ignorant way to do business. Check out Sir Ken Robinsons talk on eduction on Ted Talks. It's very eye opening.

DatabaseHead

I think pretty much any job in IT is obtainable without a degree. Some HR department may block you, but even then exception can be had if your skill is rare or sought after.

I work in a large corporate environment which has these HR criteria's and even then you can still get hired on as a developer, security engineer, networking etc without a degree. In fact the positions are designated a code which indicates an IT position, giving the person not only the ability to get the job without degree but also placed in a higher pay banned.

Business on the other hand, accounting, finance, account management, etc forget it. You have 0 chance of getting those positions without a degree. One of the really cool perks about IT.

networker050184

It would be less about what positions could you not get and more about with what company. There isn't a position out there in this industry you can't get without a degree. There are certainly companies that have rigid hiring practices though.

NetworkNewb

^^^^^^^^^

/endthread

markulous

networker050184 wrote: »

It would be less about what positions could you not get and more about with what company. There isn't a position out there in this industry you can't get without a degree. There are certainly companies that have rigid hiring practices though.

Exactly. My former Infosec director now works at prominent Security company as a director and he doesn't have a degree. Just depends on which orgs have hard requirements.

bigdogz

Most managerial or C level positions require a BS or Masters.

If you have a degree, you earn more money than if you did not have one. In addition, I have heard other managers discussions if they would hire them based on where the person went to school ... online vs brick and mortar. I guess there still may be a stigma of online schools.

mzx380

Getting a job in IT without a degree is doable. However, thinking that you should stop at an undergrad could pigeonhole you down the road. You should never give your employer/future employer an excuse to not give you a management position. Have a look at most job listings these days for manager positions and they will list a graduate degree as the preferred requirement (meaning you better have it if you want this job)

tedjames

Almost all State of Texas jobs require at least a Bachelor's degree. Sometimes, though, they will let you substitute experience for education.

Verities

Academia based jobs almost all require a bachelor's degree. In the real world though, it really is a case by case basis since each company has different "requirements" or "minimum qualifications". I'm starting to see more and more of "required: bachelor's degree or equivalent experience" show up in job postings because when it comes down to it, experience is king. However, having a bachelor's degree does show you are semi-educated, you made a 4 year commitment to invest in yourself, and it makes you more competitive when pursuing a job. All that being said, I only have an AS

and I'm having no issues finding new opportunities.

paul78

@OP - Since your previous posts over the years, it sounds like you may be still hitting the wall. IIRC - you are same age as me and similar background. So I can empathize on why you never completed your degree. I personally would have liked to have completed my own degree and some day I still may. That said, I am not a proponent of not getting a degree. I believe that if possible, one should get that degree if possible.

As for whether you would be blocked from certain jobs - as many pointed out - it depends. Have you actually tried to apply for those types of jobs? Do you know anyone that could help you get those jobs?

When it comes to career development - there are no hard and fast rules. I will say the same thing that I posted to you 4 years ago - "Employers value their employees based on the contribution that the employee bring to the corporation - not the degrees that the employee possesses. Having a degree or certifications is a demonstration of what that employee "may be" able to contribute. But it's the actual accomplishments on the job and in your career that counts. "

Many times people quote that "Experience is king". But if you are having trouble getting your foot in the door, it's not experience that counts, it's who you know who can vouch for your competency and performance. Who you know is often more important. For me - not having a degree has not limited the jobs that I have held including the senior management roles that I've held over the last 15 or more years.

Good luck.

bhoops

paul78 wrote: »

@OP - Since your previous posts over the years, it sounds like you may be still hitting the wall. IIRC - you are same age as me and similar background. So I can empathize on why you never completed your degree. I personally would have liked to have completed my own degree and some day I still may. That said, I am not a proponent of not getting a degree. I believe that if possible, one should get that degree if possible.

As for whether you would be blocked from certain jobs - as many pointed out - it depends. Have you actually tried to apply for those types of jobs? Do you know anyone that could help you get those jobs?

When it comes to career development - there are no hard and fast rules. I will say the same thing that I posted to you 4 years ago - "Employers value their employees based on the contribution that the employee bring to the corporation - not the degrees that the employee possesses. Having a degree or certifications is a demonstration of what that employee "may be" able to contribute. But it's the actual accomplishments on the job and in your career that counts. "

Many times people quote that "Experience is king". But if you are having trouble getting your foot in the door, it's not experience that counts, it's who you know who can vouch for your competency and performance. Who you know is often more important. For me - not having a degree has not limited the jobs that I have held including the senior management roles that I've held over the last 15 or more years.

Good luck.

I have been going to college(s) over the last few years, but I had to stop again from lack of funds. I have enough to pursue certs, though. So I was considering getting an A+, Net+, Sec+, then maybe the CEH, and others. But even if I get all those, I would still not have a degree, military experience, or security clearance. I am beginning to think the path of "asking for a job" has been passed, and my best choice is to employ myself. I have been working in IT as a JOAT for 30 years, and am currently working, but I fear my current job may disappear. The shortage of infosec "qualified candidates" is probably more of a shortage of people with security clearances than shortage of people with certs (according to some guy on reddit).

Currently I have zero degrees and zero certs, and no infosec skills. I am currently trying to find something that I "love" to do, specifically if I like infosec. I like everything I have read, I seem to have a lot of the skills and exposure that could be built on, since I have done a little bit of everything in IT. I like learning, but I don't like taking tests. Previously I thought infosec was out of my league because I did not have a background as a server admin or network admin. Now, the field is big enough I don't think that matters, so I am giving it another look.

Before I ran out of money, I was determined to finish a degree at NAU, then get a Masters somewhere. Now I'm thinking of certs. I'm beginning of thinking of just training myself, and going out and looking for clients. They might be little businesses who can't pay a lot, wouldn't be the fortune milspec infosec people make, but if I liked the work, screw it, I'd do it.

beads

Most career consulting , Big 4 and many more specialized consulting firms require a pedigree to show off to clients. Always have, always will as clients like pedigrees rather than random guy off the street.

Still if college isn't your thing there are plenty of opportunities with schools like WGU which is based off the same certifications your likely going to pursue anyhow, right? At least it's a degree or nothing else a requirement satisfier.

You used to go to college, preferably away, to learn how to be a well rounded, life long learner and well rounded adult. Today, that has changed to the point of being all but producing an almost unrecognizable product compared to past generations of new grads.

- b/eads

paul78

@OP - perhaps you are over-analyzing it. What skills do you have and what's your background? Are you still doing software development? And if so - in what field? If you can take your positives and your experience - you could leverage them in a way that can work you if you are unable to finish your degree. If you are intent to finish your degree - what about trying to find a job at an employer that offers tuition reimbursement?

Self-employment is always a possibility - but getting customers requires constant selling - almost like interviewing for a job all the time in some ways. Are you sure you are ready for that?

pinkydapimp

The reality is, we cant see into the future. Today there are companies or roles where they require a degree. Usually high level engineering roles and such. However, who is to say that in 5 years the IT market wont change and get saturated to the point where they can require degrees for Sysadmin roles or even desktop as a way to weeding out applications?

So the question becomes, are you willing to take the risk of not having a degree? Are you that driven to build your skills so that you are the top candidate for any role and folks will hire you over the degreed candidate? If not, think of the degree as career insurance. Additionally you will learn a wide array of things that will help you down the road that early in your career you had no idea would be relevant.

OctalDump

bhoops wrote: »

[h=2]What jobs will you never get without a degree?[/h]

In my experience, not enough. Knowledge is power. France is bacon.

It's an odd situation, if a degree isn't "required" it can really help you be better at your job, but once it is required and everyone has one, and everyone is pursuing one the quality of the degree goes down, the quality of the graduate goes down and you're back where you started...

But for someone starting a career now, I'd recommend an Associate's Degree or equivalent that is heavy on practical skills (here in Australia we tend to call those things Diplomas and Advanced Diplomas), and ideally gets you a couple of certifications. Then you get into work, and then upgrade to a Bachelor's, then a Master's. That way you have a solid base of practical skills, real world experience, and some of the broader theoretical and high level knowledge and skills.

Education should give you a solid base of knowledge that allows you to be flexibile, gives you skills to continue life long learning (eg being able research, detect bull, and think), an understanding of what it means to be a professional and how to behave ethically, and some intellectual humility (ie realise that there is a lot you don't know, and where your boundaries of expertise lie).