Why a double master's why not move to the doctorates

Just curious I see alot of people grab double masters in the technology field why not move to the doctorates level.

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I completed my Master's in Information Security and Assurance from WGU, and I'm working on my MBA in IT Management also from WGU. My reasoning for NOT going for Doctorate is two-fold:

1) With my education history, I have maxxed out my student loans, and could only afford another Master's.
2) I have read too many stories of people with Doctorate Degrees that have difficulties finding employment.

I have to admit, reason #1 is what did it for me. I actually didn't know that I still had enough available to finish another Master's. I was going to stop at one. Having enough for another was a bonus. I have no problems with the amount I will have to pay after I graduate, because I have always valued education.

Dakinggamer87

I'll stick with finishing one Master's degree!! I'm debt free from student loans paid in full 100% I couldn't imagine having that debt again. However, on the topic I think that for most people they rather have two master's degrees because of the time commitment, cost, and most likely an aspect of marketability in comparison to the doctorate. A doctorate is really meant for research or academia.

Just my two cents

NOC-Ninja

Its the cost. PHD is very expensive. Ive looked into it.
Takes so much time.
More research
You have to teach
You have to go the the school locally if you want to get the PHD in a well known school.

yoba222

That way one of the two degrees is an MBA, which holds some additional weight. The technology Doctorate really is a white elephant outside of underpaid academia. It might add a few thousand in salary to someone negotiating to qualify for a GS-14 or 15 position.

Either way not worth 10,000 20,000, or more IMHO. Harder to argue if your company is paying though.

EANx

Most Doctorates tend to be PhDs which tend to be research based. A professional studies degree (DProf / DPS) would be more in-line with what many people would like, but there aren't many universities that do them. Syracuse used to have one but switched it to a PhD.

OctalDump

A doctorate is hard. I think harder than doing two Master's. Often there's a substantial residential component, extra costs, and a much larger thesis/research component. Doctorates tend to be more focussed and specific, as well. So unless you are already in a niche, you risk getting a lot of knowledge/skills in a small area that not many people can pay you for. A master's can be a safer financial choice.

The other thing is that the market is strange with a doctorates. They aren't often asked for in many places (apparently Germany is very different), and I get the impression that in the US and here (Australia), they can in some circumstances actually count against you. Some people have the impression that they are not relevant, that they are "ivory tower" and disconnected from the realities of business, that you are overqualified, that it is all "theoretical" and abstract.

Personally, I'd like to do one, one day. I don't know if I will, I don't know if I can. My motivation isn't really about a financial return, it's more about achieving something to be proud of. Some people like to have big houses, or spend lots of money restoring cars, or own a boat. I like education.

mbarrett

There are also diminishing returns with a Doctorate in some fields - from what I understand people become an expert in their field which sounds good, but there can be limited opportunity in the job market for people at that level. From a career perspective, it can make more sense to position yourself better in the job market by expanding into another Maste'rs degree.

9bits

As someone who came from academia, I can give my opinion on this.

1) Two masters degrees is almost always going to be a waste of time/money. Unless you really need that 2nd masters to change fields, it will never pay off. For instance if you had an MBA and decided you wanted to do electrical engineering, then it may be worthwhile to enroll in a masters program in EE since the field is highly regulated. But if you had a masters in EE and wanted to go into business, an MBA is almost certainly a waste of your time. And as far as IT goes, you don't need an IT-specific degree to do IT. It's great if that's what you got in the first place, but if you didn't, don't waste time going back for it now.

2) A Ph.D. is a research degree. There's this misconception that a Ph.D. represents the paramount of knowledge in a field, but what it really means is you studied a whole lot about a very tiny area in that field and that you know how to do research. The only reasons to get one are if you want to be a researcher or if you want to teach at a university. Otherwise you're really wasting your time...a lot of time.

IT is a practical field, almost always hands-on. A PhD in IT would be of little more use than a PhD in plumbing. Exactly what kind of research would either field offer? Not to say a person couldn't find some way to stretch the boundaries and come up with some esoteric topic to research, but it would be more akin to philosophy than anything else.

I know a lot of people here are passionate about learning, and so am I. But your time can be so much better spent. An undergrad degree is great and can open doors, a masters degree may extend this, but beyond that, the diminishing returns are diminishing at a very high rate.

If you've already got a bachelors and masters degree, I'd recommend spending your time learning these things:

1) High level certs--find a challenging and high level cert to go after. CCIE, OSCE, etc.
2) Foreign languages--they connect people, and that's invaluable in any field. Get Rosetta Stone or Duolingo and teach yourself another language. Learn three or four if you have the time.
3) Go learn a new skill outside of IT: get a pilot's license, learn ballroom dance, rock climbing, or anything you find personally enriching

We're only on this planet for a short time and you don't want to waste your valuable time chasing multiple degrees.

Just my two cents.

amicmanzo

@9bits

I definitely agree with you point on chasing other things than another degree such as another language or a high level cert.

But, isn't having an MBA a more substantial investment if you plan on climbing the totem pole within a company?

jeremywatts2005

Myself I have two masters degrees. One in information security management and a second more technical masters in digital forensic science. When I interview though most of the focus is on MSDFS. The management one helps with questions on whether I have had training in management and business sort of like an MBA just in infosec though.

9bits

amicmanzo wrote: »

@9bits

I definitely agree with you point on chasing other things than another degree such as another language or a high level cert.

But, isn't having an MBA a more substantial investment if you plan on climbing the totem pole within a company?

I think if you had no masters degree at all and you wanted to be CEO of a mid-size/large company, then an MBA could be helpful. But if you already have a masters degree in something and you have a good skill set of business knowledge and leadership skills, I don't see a lack of an MBA holding you back. If you don't have the knowledge, you can teach yourself through reading, networking (with people), and job experience.

A good friend of mine did his undergrad degree in management and then did an MBA. He fully admits he didn't learn anything new in his MBA program, and it was from a reputable school.

OctalDump

9bits wrote: »

2) A Ph.D. is a research degree. There's this misconception that a Ph.D. represents the paramount of knowledge in a field, but what it really means is you studied a whole lot about a very tiny area in that field and that you know how to do research. The only reasons to get one are if you want to be a researcher or if you want to teach at a university. Otherwise you're really wasting your time...a lot of time.

There's a third reason: because you really want one. Some people enjoy these kinds of things. And as you say "we're only on this planet for a short time" so why not do something that makes you happy?

I'd have to say that in many fields in business, an MBA will make a difference. It can also help overcome that perception that an IT person is purely technical, doesn't understand people, and isn't really business minded. A common criticism of IT degrees is that they don't teach people skills - people management, presentation, communication, leadership etc. Of course this depends on the degree, institution and even who is teaching.

Naturally, if financial return is your primary motivator, then you need to understand the market you are working in. You can get a very long way with just high level certifications and being good at what you do.

Danielh22185

I work with a guy who has a Ph.D in biology. He changed careers from that into IT and we make nearly the same and I have an associates... Just saying...

I for one agree with the aforementioned that Ph.D is for someone who really wants to invoke their career into research and teaching. My work buddy agrees with this and I think partially regrets the time and money he spent going after the Ph.D. A dual masters also seems like a waste of time unless you are changing careers.

UnixGuy

PhD is an apprenticeship in research; it's irrelevant to anyone outside academia.

stryder144

One of my students asked a question about what the requirements were to become a CISO. We took to indeed.com and looked up the title in the Denver area. As there were only a few postings in our area we looked at two of them. Small sample size but both asked for an MBA and a technical masters. Not scientific, nor do I remember the size of the companies asking for both degrees, but an interesting take on what some markets might be looking for.

OctalDump

stryder144 wrote: »

One of my students asked a question about what the requirements were to become a CISO. We took to indeed.com and looked up the title in the Denver area.

I just did the same thing here, there was only one CISO role listed, so I expanded to include CTO and CIO. Out of about 25, 4 asked for a degree of any kind. None asked for a Masters, although those 4 used phrasing along the lines of "Bachelor or postgraduate qualification". One of those 4 included PhD in their list of acceptable qualifications. An additional listing had "Bachelor, postgraduate or equivalent experience". I was surprised how many didn't ask for any degree at all.

I wouldn't read that to mean it doesn't matter if you have an MBA or Master's or anything. It's more likely that those things would be looked on favourably, especially if the other candidates, or existing employees, have them and you don't. It also goes some way to answering questions about leadership, technical skills, etc.

It might be worth investigating directly (eg, linkedin) what qualifications the existing leadership team have. If they've all got MBAs, that might also be your answer.

The lesson is still "know your market".

mzx380

Thank you OP for creating this thread. I'm in the middle of the MBA:ITM at WGU and am really thinking about taking up a second graduate degree beginning sometime in 2018. Hearing the feedback from everyone here will prove very valuable in making a final decision.

powerfool

I am going to comment on employability. Having a PhD has never diminished anyone's employment prospects. You don't have to list it if you don't want to. There are plenty of people that can't get a job, for whatever reason, and they go back to school and still can't get a job. The reason was something other than their lesser education and that didn't change in the process. I have seen it with plenty of folks that get an MBA.

I would like to do a doctoral program, but finding something convenient, worthwhile, and affordable is a difficult set of requirements to have, especially when you don't live adjacent to one of these institutions.

Panther

mzx380 wrote: »

Thank you OP for creating this thread. I'm in the middle of the MBA:ITM at WGU and am really thinking about taking up a second graduate degree beginning sometime in 2018. Hearing the feedback from everyone here will prove very valuable in making a final decision.

Just curious, why the second degree?

I'm thinking of getting into WGU's MBA:ITM, would my first Master's, if I get accepted.