Rat race

I'm sure this post might be removed; however, I just wanted to ask since I've been lurking/reading quietly behind the scens

What do you think about the rat race and your position in this field?

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NetworkNewb

I like my position in this field. If you refer to yours as a rat race sounds your like you are in the wrong field and doing things you hate. Time to think about where you're heading. Maybe you're just in the wrong area of IT and not doing things that interest you?

Why would your post be removed? Sounds like you're looking for some help.

TechGromit

Can't say I feel that way either, the field I'm in there's a lot of opportunity, it pays well and the future is only looking brighter. I'm sure in the future entry level cyber security will be so competitive it will seem like a rat race, but that hasn't been my experience yet.

joshuamurphy75

I've never raced rats before... sounds fun.

ITat33

Just been thinking recently

Really enjoy my job, this is something that I'm good at but from the way I see it most companies can find an engineer anywhere so being good isn't a big deal these days.

I also have been promoted before, have tons of certs/experience and enjoy my work but been having a rough week

You guys never feel like you're wasting your youth to purpose wealth with no real reward?

Its just money you know, and either way I might need a vacation

Cert Poor

ITat33 wrote: »

You guys never feel like you're wasting your youth to purpose wealth with no real reward?

Its just money you know, and either way I might need a vacation

(paraphrasing since I can't remember the quote):

A young man sacrifices his health to try to get money only to grow old and sacrifice money to try to get health.

Keeps things in perspective for me.

DatabaseHead

Well..........

My last position the first 2 years was solid, then it turned into a $hit show. Now I joined on to a large BI / IT team and it's great. I work hard and try hard, but it's rewarding I don't have to lab or cert to feel fulfilled it keeps me rolling.

Of course like all things, things do change. Maybe I can get 3 solid years out of this role....

In short I leave or refuse offers for positions that would lead to that type of lifestyle.

jelevated

ITat33 wrote: »

You guys never feel like you're wasting your youth to purpose wealth with no real reward?

Its just money you know, and either way I might need a vacation

No but money can mean opportunity. If you have enough to live on comfortably why not give away to some less fortunate (not saying you do but).

I would say 30% of my job I would do it for FREE because I actually enjoy doing the work (best feeling).

The rest sucks. But the bills are paid.

TheFORCE

ITat33 wrote: »

You guys never feel like you're wasting your youth to purpose wealth with no real reward?

Its just money you know, and either way I might need a vacation

The moment you start doing something just because of the money, is the moment you start wasting your time. So dont do it because of the money, do it because you like it and enjoy spending time in IT. Yes it is true that companies can find good engineers, but can they find someone that will also fit their corporate culture?

scaredoftests

Never thought of it as a rat race. Is it the company that you are at that makes you feel this way? If so, get out. Life's too short for that crap...

volfkhat

ITat33 wrote: »

I'm sure this post might be removed; however, I just wanted to ask since I've been lurking/reading quietly behind the scenes

What do you think about the rat race and your position in this field?

100% with you regarding the "rat race".

Granted, some "rats" are better compensated than others.... but it's still a racket.

Working for yourself is probably the best way Out, i suppose.
Working at a place where you are gaining to the SKILLS to eventually be self-employed; next best option.
Moving to a less exploitative country; next next best option ;]

I would definitely take that vacation.

In fact, the last 2 years, i've taken the summer off exactly for that reason.
My associates look at me like i'm crazy; but, i assure you, they should be looking in the mirror.

What's the point of owning Big houses & Fancy cars...
if you can't afford to take a day off?
If you're always worried about the Ax?
If you're always putting in 40+ hours a week?
If the workplace expectations aretaking a toll on your health?

/shrug

Danielm7

While I agree with volfkhat on the parts about living below your means and never wanting to be so strapped that you can't take a break, working for yourself can be another race entirely. It's really not for everyone, and if you think working for yourself means 40 hours or less a week that's pretty uncommon. You might not be billing 40 hours, but marketing, client generation, etc, all can take a ton of time.

The workplace expectation part is a big one, for me company culture is a big deal, and respect for my time. I interviewed for a place a few years ago, it was a salary increase but I would have to go from a 10 minute walk commute to an hour+ on the train each way in rush hour. Then when I was in the interview they told me something along the lines of "if you're one of those people that think you can leave work at 5pm, you'll never last here!" Meanwhile now I have a much better job and leave at 3pm, ha, oh well.

As the others said, it doesn't have to be a rat race. If you're against any sort of work, then sure, but at least have a goal on how to get out of it. If you're really interested in trying to do that as quickly as possible I suggest reading up here

https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/

BlackBeret

Someone has been reading Rich Dad Poor Dad it seems? If not, then do so.

TechGromit

ITat33 wrote: »

You guys never feel like you're wasting your youth to purpose wealth with no real reward?

Work should never dominated you life. I'm thankful for the field I picked to earn a living in. I'm well paid, room to grow and learn, rewarding work at times, have the luxury of time off and the money to enjoy it with. There's plenty of people struggling to pay bills and put food on the table, while they may be keeping there head above water, they will never have enough to retire, they will work till they die. What an awful feeling to have about the future.

DatabaseHead wrote: »

Now I joined on to a large BI / IT team and it's great. I work hard and try hard, but it's rewarding I don't have to lab or cert to feel fulfilled it keeps me rolling.

I don't collect certs because they turn me on.

They are insurance, so if my job situation changes (get laid off, company goes bankrupt, branch closes, etc) I have leverage to get another well paying job. I was just like you, I had a decent paying job and things were good.... till they were not. Don't wait until your ship hits an iceberg before you start thinking about life jackets and life boats. It's a hell of lot easier to study for and obtain certifications when your gainfully employed than we your unemployed and need to get another job right NOW. I never want to be in the situation I was in 2013 again, 20 years IT experience but no marketable certification's. I was forced to take a low paying contracting job with no benefits before unemployment ran out. I got lucky to end up where I did, it could have easily gone the other way, a series of low paying contracting gigs with no benefits and no future. I can't rely on luck next time.

ITat33

I'm glad to see so many people still enjoy it and I'm in the same boat I didn't get into this field for the money or the title, I also didn't expect to get so far and climb so high into my current title. But you really cant ignore the fact that it is a competition between everyone, the people in other depts below you are always looking for ways to get info out of you so THEY can grow and are looking to use someone like you, when you look at the corporate structure long enough you can see the way office politics really play out..

I would also never really bring this up at work or with professionals near by, but figured I should ask how others feel on the topic

volfkhat

TechGromit wrote: »

There's plenty of people struggling to pay bills and put food on the table, while they may be keeping there head above water, they will never have enough to retire, they will work till they die. What an awful feeling to have about the future.

Amen, brother.
That, right there, is the quintessential definition of the Rat Race.

But even if you/anyone is doing "relatively" better than others... don't be too confident about your situation.

In this country,
most are just an illness away from financial ruin (even with health insurance).

jibtech

I recognize how fortunate to be in a field that I love. I would have an interest in IT no matter how I paid the bills.

I also have some pretty serious passions outside of work in my sailing. When I have the bad days (weeks, months...), I remember what they are letting me do outside of the office.

TheFORCE

ITat33 wrote: »

I'm glad to see so many people still enjoy it and I'm in the same boat I didn't get into this field for the money or the title, I also didn't expect to get so far and climb so high into my current title. But you really cant ignore the fact that it is a competition between everyone, the people in other depts below you are always looking for ways to get info out of you so THEY can grow and are looking to use someone like you, when you look at the corporate structure long enough you can see the way office politics really play out..

I would also never really bring this up at work or with professionals near by, but figured I should ask how others feel on the topic

You worried about job security? Really man? No one ever has job security. Better not to think about that at all. Companies usually try to replace those positions where people think they have all the knowlege and cannot be replaced.

Personally, in every job position i have been i have trained my coworker and never thought about it as them trying to take my job. Just relax, learn and dont think about your co-workers as your competition.

UnixGuy

there are opportunities in this field to make high six figures and more if you keep moving up...there is contracting...

think of it this way, you can manage to get more annual pay than what a small / medium size business can turn in revenue,..with less efforts.

DatabaseHead

TechGromit wrote: »

I don't collect certs because they turn me on. They are insurance, so if my job situation changes (get laid off, company goes bankrupt, branch closes, etc) I have leverage to get another well paying job. I was just like you, I had a decent paying job and things were good.... till they were not. Don't wait until your ship hits an iceberg before you start thinking about life jackets and life boats. It's a hell of lot easier to study for and obtain certifications when your gainfully employed than we your unemployed and need to get another job right NOW. I never want to be in the situation I was in 2013 again, 20 years IT experience but no marketable certification's. I was forced to take a low paying contracting job with no benefits before unemployment ran out. I got lucky to end up where I did, it could have easily gone the other way, a series of low paying contracting gigs with no benefits and no future. I can't rely on luck next time.

I agree they are really good insurance, but I am not going to get caught up in the "rat race" of certification ever again. One every 3 - 5 years to stay somewhat relevant, I see nothing wrong with. But if you aren't giving yourself large cycles of off time you are doing it wrong from my perspective.

Example, I work with specialized database management system for data warehousing. I plan on taking the professional level certification on the product in a year or so to capture the progress I made on this particular "appliance". From my perspective and what has worked for me is just having one tactiful certification that I can place on my resume to help brand my skills. It really is more about marketing myself to employers.

hurricane1091

It's a rat race. Many people here are able to work their way into six figures just a handful of years into the field. A nice pay day, and it can lead well into the six figures territory. But most people will end up working 5 days a week their entire life until retirement at an old age, and that's just the reality of anyone who works a 5 day a week 9-5 job. Getting well into six figures early and saving can lead to retiring well before 65 at least. Just look at how many people here (myself included) spend hundreds and thousands of hours studying for certs to develop new skills. I like my job and what I do, and I'm fortunate to be in a field where you can get a comfortable life quite quickly, but I wouldn't mind hitting the lotto and retiring tomorrow!

pcgizzmo

ITat33 wrote: »

Just been thinking recently

Its just money you know, and either way I might need a vacation

I think you need a vacation. I don't know your age but it sounds like you are fairly young. Money is a means to an end. That end can be whatever you want it to be. Freedom to quit your job at an early age, new car, new house, nice vacation, retirement at any age.

My point being is money makes the world go around and allows you to do whatever it is you want to do. No money no life choices. If your burnt out then maybe you need to change what you are doing in IT. There are many roads you can go down and still be in IT.

The last thing I'll say is that try and and remember your younger years are also you prime earning years. If your young you hopefully don't have a lot of bills, responsibilities etc. Use this time to make as much as possible and sock it away so that life is easier when you do have those other things. Also, since you may not have those responsibilities use this time to work hard and get ahead in your career. Put in the extra effort to set yourself up career rise so that again when you get older you have choices and don't have to work as hard.

Off my soap box now. Best of luck in whatever you decide.

hurricane1091

pcgizzmo wrote: »

I think you need a vacation. I don't know your age but it sounds like you are fairly young. Money is a means to an end. That end can be whatever you want it to be. Freedom to quit your job at an early age, new car, new house, nice vacation, retirement at any age.

My point being is money makes the world go around and allows you to do whatever it is you want to do. No money no life choices. If your burnt out then maybe you need to change what you are doing in IT. There are many roads you can go down and still be in IT.

The last thing I'll say is that try and and remember your younger years are also you prime earning years. If your young you hopefully don't have a lot of bills, responsibilities etc. Use this time to make as much as possible and sock it away so that life is easier when you do have those other things. Also, since you may not have those responsibilities use this time to work hard and get ahead in your career. Put in the extra effort to set yourself up career rise so that again when you get older you have choices and don't have to work as hard.

Off my soap box now. Best of luck in whatever you decide.

This guy does need a vacation. I've been through the feeling. The reality is everyone who works can think of something they would rather be doing than working. Even owning your own business is a ton of work and involves working a ton. You should still enjoy the work you are doing, even with the realization that you are just another cog in the wheel. Everyone is replaceable. You will find stories on here and other sites about those who climbed the food chain and decided the added hours and responsibility were not worth it, and went back down. For you, it might be the case. There's nothing wrong with that either. I worked from 10 PM to 1 AM one night last week on some firewall stuff, and 5 AM to 8 AM another day (in addition to my normal working hours). I'm salaried naturally, and this place doesn't do bonuses. I personally feel good because I corrected some long-standing problems I believe, but it largely will go un-noticed and un-appreciated. It's not fun staying up late and waking up early, and giving my time away for free to someone else. I don't think anyone enjoys that part of the job, but everyone knows it comes with the job. So with that in mind, it's impossible to say that this isn't a rat race. If I am waking up at 5 AM, I'd rather it be for a fishing trip. But I can't pull the trigger on being an entrepreneur, have yet to win the lotto, and do not have a rich Uncle retired in Florida with a big fat sum of cash for me in his will. So this is the reality I live in, as well as everyone here and all across the country and the world. If that is what it takes to live comfortably, always have a roof over my head and food on the table, then it beats the heck out of living in a developing country and struggling to make ends meet.

TL;DR everyone works 9-5 and then some. No one makes millions a year doing that. Being your own boss and starting a company is the best way to riches - and still involves a ton of work. Rat race still beats struggling to survive. Take a vacation and drink some beers.

NetworkNewb

Whole life is a rat race, trying to delay the inevitable as long as we can.

Happy Monday all

cbdudek

I have always loved IT work. I went to school to get my degree in IT, and then went back to school for my MBA when I had 12 years of experience in the field. I have 20 years in the industry now and I have a lot of experience working on a variety of great technologies. I have worked in help desk, administration, engineering, and management. I have only worked 4 jobs since I graduated so it isn't like I am hopping all over the place every year.

In that time, I have learned that the culture of the organization is the most important consideration. The culture will define your pay, time off, flexibility, and work environment. All those things drive employee satisfaction. I have worked for companies that have very positive cultures and ones that are not good at all. The key is to choose wisely.

So when you say "rat race", I can say that I have not been thrust into that thankfully. I work for healthy organizations that take care of their employees. I push myself to serve the company but they don't expect me to work 60-80 hours a week. Some weeks I push 50, and some I push 35. I am paid well and get plenty of vacation. At this point, I am very thankful that I have had a great career but I do believe that my best days are ahead of me. I am lined up to retire sometime in 2035, but I am doubtful that I will ever retire. I enjoy the work I do so much, I see myself being a consultant when I get older or maybe working at a university teaching full time/part time.

NOC-Ninja

The older I get, the more i see that 6 figure is not enough. Hell even a million will not be enough to retire.
Can you really retire, travel and have a great life with 6 digit figure or a million?

My brother in law is a millionaire. He owns his own dental practice. He works even on the weekends.

hurricane1091

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

The older I get, the more i see that 6 figure is not enough. Hell even a million will not be enough to retire.
Can you really retire, travel and have a great life with 6 digit figure or a million?

My brother in law is a millionaire. He owns his own dental practice. He works even on the weekends.

Shore house on the water in LBI here in NJ will run you at least $800k. Would love to have that. Need a boat too, plus a truck to pull it. Still have to have the full time residence and vehicles. Then all the normal bills of vehicle maintenance, food, utilities, etc. And then you realize wow, what an asinine amount of money. Even if I made 150k a year and my other half made 100k a year, it would still take years of saving to be able to afford these things. Rat race boys, gear up. And if you're a simple kind of man and do not want a house on the water with a boat and a truck to pull it, God bless ya!

I wonder how people afford this things. I assume they have "old money" or are financial advisors/big time lawyers probably. Our governor shut down state parks this weekend and his family had the beach to themselves, so maybe I should ask him.

Fulcrum45

In truth I don't have a "passion" for technology but I've never seen it as a rat-race either. It always seemed to me to be a challenging and rather respected field. I guess the aspects of it that get me by are that I love learning and problem solving. Figuring out the answer to a long standing issue is enough to put me on Cloud 9. But in the end it pays the bills, let's me take care of my awesome family and pursue my artistic hobbies which would not pay nearly as well

Just choose an employer who appreciates a work/ life balance and repay them with hard work.

blatini

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

The older I get, the more i see that 6 figure is not enough. Hell even a million will not be enough to retire.
Can you really retire, travel and have a great life with 6 digit figure or a million?

My brother in law is a millionaire. He owns his own dental practice. He works even on the weekends.

Are you serious?

I know people that travel the world 10/12 months on 30k a year. I guess when you're surrounded by millionaires it changes your perspective on what is enough or what constitutes good living.

scaredoftests

blatini wrote: »

Are you serious?

I know people that travel the world 10/12 months on 30k a year. I guess when you're surrounded by millionaires it changes your perspective on what is enough or what constitutes good living.

and it also depends your health....

ITat33

UnixGuy wrote: »

there are opportunities in this field to make high six figures and more if you keep moving up...there is contracting...

think of it this way, you can manage to get more annual pay than what a small / medium size business can turn in revenue,..with less efforts.

I'm already at six figures and I'm actually under 30

Been stressed out lately, things are failing at work and not really due to me doing things wrong

Also, regarding vacation in case anyone is reading, I feel it really is time to think about that

My company wont really sign off on a vacation/pto for another 3 months so with due time I guess

I just need to be patient right now