any demand for cloud certification

azi90azi90 Posts: 50Member ■■■□□□□□□□
Hi,
People have advised me to do cloud based certifications such as Azure or AWS. I have started working towards Azure (70-533 since i do not have background in development) and i was thinking to may be also do AWS associate levels.

But my concern is when i go on indeed to search for job related to these certs
1) there are only VERY few jobs for relating to these positions. Are these still not in demand??
2) most of the jobs that are listed require programming skills aswell.

Am i SOL if i dont know programming? wasting time learning these since i cant see Cloud jobs relating to operations, system management etc?
I am in Toronto if that matters. And have my CCNA, MCSA 2012. currently a System/Network Admin

Comments

  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead CSM, ITIL x3, Teradata Assc, MS SQL Server, Project +, Server +, A+, N+, MS Project, CAPM, RMP Posts: 2,480Member ■■■■■■■■■□
  • techie2018techie2018 Posts: 41Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    I'm sure what the demand is for cloud certs per se. But I do know there is a ton of demand for cloud knowledge. It's good to have certs because it gives you a good curriculum to learn. But obviously just having certs is near pointless if you don't actually know the material.

    So I will tell you what I tell everyone who wants to obtain a cert. Go for it but make sure you have the knowledge and can speak to it.
  • srocky26srocky26 Posts: 39Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    I had no cloud knowledge until last year. I worked through the 70-533 and the three AWS associate cents. I definitely learned a lot and have been using AWS to lab some items I’ve been studying.

    I’ve been casually looking for a position to get more hands-on experience, but as you’ve said, most are development related. DevOps is the closest I’ve seen in my area. Looking at jobs in a couple of the cities about an hour away have a lot more opportunities, so maybe expand your search radius?
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead CSM, ITIL x3, Teradata Assc, MS SQL Server, Project +, Server +, A+, N+, MS Project, CAPM, RMP Posts: 2,480Member ■■■■■■■■■□
    We have DevOps and ProdOps roles at my company. Obviously the first is well spoke of the other is more administration related.
  • beadsbeads Senior Member Posts: 1,455Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Having just a cloud cert won't be enough to help you break into a DevOps or SecOps position but it will help round out your knowledge. Keep in mind that either position listed above is likely to rely on heavy scripting, SQL if not development or networking skills.

    Is there a market for such skills? Yes and that demand is FAR outstripping the general availability in the market for labor. We've been unsuccessfully for more than a year. Its not that we are cheap with money or a bad place to work (we are working on our fifth straight year of being a top 100 place to work, etc.) Its that we haven't been able to secure the right talent. Cloud certs or not. The field is really hard to define as it means different things to different people.

    As far as demand this is a place where I am shocked the media isn't aping/hyping the need as its clear to anyone in the field that the need is far outstripping security by a substantial premium in salary.

    Cloud isn't going away but it requires a whole lot more than just a general cert.

    - b/eads
  • LeBrokeLeBroke Posts: 490Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    beads wrote: »
    Having just a cloud cert won't be enough to help you break into a DevOps or SecOps position but it will help round out your knowledge. Keep in mind that either position listed above is likely to rely on heavy scripting, SQL if not development or networking skills.

    Is there a market for such skills? Yes and that demand is FAR outstripping the general availability in the market for labor. We've been unsuccessfully for more than a year. Its not that we are cheap with money or a bad place to work (we are working on our fifth straight year of being a top 100 place to work, etc.) Its that we haven't been able to secure the right talent. Cloud certs or not. The field is really hard to define as it means different things to different people.

    As far as demand this is a place where I am shocked the media isn't aping/hyping the need as its clear to anyone in the field that the need is far outstripping security by a substantial premium in salary.

    Cloud isn't going away but it requires a whole lot more than just a general cert.

    - b/eads

    Basically, this.

    If you want a DevOps role (they are the ones that typically run AWS environments), you need decent knowledge of at least some of these domains:

    - Scripting (Bash, Python, etc). Ideally development experience as well, but this depends on the specific role. Most DevOps jobs are ops-heavy.
    - Linux (most SaaS shops are heavily Linux based), although there is a lot of demand for Windows guys as well as long as they can script its deployment (PowerShell, etc) and aren't just button pushers
    - Continuous Integration/Continuous Delivery. Setting up build pipelines and automation with tools like Bamboo or Jenkins.
    - Configuration Management. Chef, Ansible, Puppet, etc, and using it to deploy and orchestrate your infrastructure.
    - Containers. Docker, Kubernetes, Nomad, etc. Creating containers/dockerfiles (including with automation), dockerizing an existing application, clustering, orchestration toolset like K8s.
    - Cloud systems. AWS, Azure. Not all DevOps jobs use cloud, but if it's used, its management typically falls on DevOps/SREs. Also includes not just using the platform, but also infrastructure as code. Leveraging config management tools like Ansible and orchestration tools like Terraform or CloudFormation to build and deploy your platform.
    - Databases. At least the basics like installation, replication, backups, and some basic queries. Made easier if you use RDS (Aurora, etc), but still need to know at least the basics. Also partly ties in to CI/CD as CI/CD workflows usually include automated database schema migrations as components of software releases.

    You don't need to know all, or even any specific part of this, but unless you have some decent knowledge and experience with at least 2-3 of these, it will be very difficult to move into the space.

    Also, something like an RHCE might actually help more than AWS certs.
  • UnixGuyUnixGuy SABSA, GCFA, GPEN, CISM, RHCE, Security+, Server+, eJPT, CCNA Posts: 4,071Mod Mod
    Getting all the Amazon AWS certs you can will not hurt you.

    Yes there is a lot of demand for cloud knowledge at the moment, so getting a cert should improve your knowledge.
    Goal: MBA, Jan 2021
  • Bryan0530Bryan0530 Posts: 30Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    Maybe it's your market, a lot of opportunity in "cloud" operations around DC.

    I think you have to start thinking outside the box or reading more about what cloud is. unless you want to be a Azure or AWS Gui guru I'm sure you use some type of "private cloud" in your environment. I would also try to get into the cloud space before you go chasing certs, that's what I did... if I would've gotten an AWS cert two years ago it would've been wasting my time because I use Azure platform and never touched AWS. I did however study and had knowledge of both while I was applying but i didn't take those exams rather just gained knowledge to land the job. good luck
  • EagerDinosaurEagerDinosaur Posts: 114Member
    I work for a big IT consultancy and there's loads of internal demand for people with cloud skills, both programming and non-programming. Our customers are very keen on moving to the cloud. Certifications are not a requirement, but they are seen as a good thing, particularly when combined with hands-on experience. I've passed a couple of AWS and Azure exams, I see them as a useful well-structured way to learn cloud skills, rather than an end in themselves.
  • SteveLavoieSteveLavoie Posts: 682Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    As cloud sector is quite "new", having a cert can help you make you look better. There is demand.
  • azi90azi90 Posts: 50Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    LeBroke wrote: »
    Basically, this.

    If you want a DevOps role (they are the ones that typically run AWS environments), you need decent knowledge of at least some of these domains:

    - Scripting (Bash, Python, etc). Ideally development experience as well, but this depends on the specific role. Most DevOps jobs are ops-heavy.
    - Linux (most SaaS shops are heavily Linux based), although there is a lot of demand for Windows guys as well as long as they can script its deployment (PowerShell, etc) and aren't just button pushers
    - Continuous Integration/Continuous Delivery. Setting up build pipelines and automation with tools like Bamboo or Jenkins.
    - Configuration Management. Chef, Ansible, Puppet, etc, and using it to deploy and orchestrate your infrastructure.
    - Containers. Docker, Kubernetes, Nomad, etc. Creating containers/dockerfiles (including with automation), dockerizing an existing application, clustering, orchestration toolset like K8s.
    - Cloud systems. AWS, Azure. Not all DevOps jobs use cloud, but if it's used, its management typically falls on DevOps/SREs. Also includes not just using the platform, but also infrastructure as code. Leveraging config management tools like Ansible and orchestration tools like Terraform or CloudFormation to build and deploy your platform.
    - Databases. At least the basics like installation, replication, backups, and some basic queries. Made easier if you use RDS (Aurora, etc), but still need to know at least the basics. Also partly ties in to CI/CD as CI/CD workflows usually include automated database schema migrations as components of software releases.

    You don't need to know all, or even any specific part of this, but unless you have some decent knowledge and experience with at least 2-3 of these, it will be very difficult to move into the space.

    Also, something like an RHCE might actually help more than AWS certs.

    and what if i have nothing to do with Development sector? What if i want to get in Sysops
  • LeBrokeLeBroke Posts: 490Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    azi90 wrote: »
    and what if i have nothing to do with Development sector? What if i want to get in Sysops
    You would need to focus on stuff like Linux, cloud itself, configuration management, and cloud orchestration like CloudFormation and Terraform.

    I only see SysOps roles in big companies, and a lot of the time they're glorified button pushers, though.
  • mzx380mzx380 ITIL, ACA, CCNA, Linux+, VCP-DCV, PMP, PMI-ACP, CSM New YorkPosts: 453Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Demand or not, I'm looking to do a certification on them to strengthen knowledge and earn a cert out of them. A minimal return is better than no return at all

    My .02
    Certifications: ITIL, ACA, CCNA, Linux+, VCP-DCV, PMP, PMI-ACP, CSM
    Currently Working On: Microsoft 70-761 (SQL Server)
  • minitminit Posts: 77Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    The challenge here is getting experience in these things (Linux \ AWS \ Python \ Jenkins \ etc) when your current job doesn't involve any of it!

    I think I've seen maybe 1 junior devops job, and even that required 1 year of experience in these.
  • LeBrokeLeBroke Posts: 490Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    minit wrote: »
    The challenge here is getting experience in these things (Linux \ AWS \ Python \ Jenkins \ etc) when your current job doesn't involve any of it!

    I think I've seen maybe 1 junior devops job, and even that required 1 year of experience in these.
    Linux sysadmin jobs, especially in SaaS, are way more forgiving when it comes to gaining knowledge, and you should be able to pick up enough skills to land an actual DevOps job afterward.
  • N7ValiantN7Valiant Senior Member Posts: 360Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    I think it depends on who your clients are. Big businesses who face fierce competition would be more likely to keep on top of new technology in order to maintain a competitive edge. We mostly service small to medium size businesses and so most people are still using Server 2012 and 2008 whereas 2016 is a rare find. Kind of half and half between Win 7/10.

    We've been pushing the cloud stuff pretty good as far as getting people on O365 so nobody throws their computer out the window if Word or their computer crashes and they lose their work, but we've never touched AWS in any capacity.

    From my brief reading, it seems like it would depend on a very solid fiber internet in your area, which might explain why I don't see a lot of it here, our ISPs just plain suck.
    MCSE: Core Infrastructure
    MCSA: Windows Server 2016
    CompTIA A+ | Network+ | Security+ CE
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