Being in IT when you're not as passionate as other people

thedudeabides · May 2018

It's said for a lot of professions that if you're not passionate, you shouldn't be in it. Of course the fallacy there is if that's true for all professions, and if you're not passionate about anything that pays, then society is essentially telling you to stay unemployed. But then if you reframe that for society and ask directly, "So you're saying I should do nothing and stay unemployed?", they'll say, "No, of course not!"

Well, then what are they saying? What if the only things you're passionate about you can't get paid for? You still have to do something. For me, that something is IT--and to clarify, I do like tech and hardware, but only as an occasional hobby. As soon as it's framed into a full-time job, I find all the joy is gone. This leaves me kind of lost.

If I could do anything and not worry about money, I'd write. I'd write novels, or I'd work in a writer's room for an interesting sci-fi series, or I'd just find any way to create a compelling story and bring it to life. Unfortunately, I can't pay bills on hopes and dreams. So this leaves me stuck between society's two totems of obligation and passion. On one hand, society says that since you're an adult, you have an obligation to contribute and earn enough money to take care of yourself. On the other hand, society will also tell you to follow your passion. They're almost diametrically opposed philosophies, and they don't seem to congeal except for the lucky people who just happen to have things line up early on.

Does anyone else find themselves in a similar predicament? If so, what are your strategies and coping mechanisms for dealing with the daily bombardment of not quite fitting in at work? Do you find you make any progress on your passions in your downtime and do you have hope those efforts will come to fruition? And lastly, how do you respond to people who say you should go do something else?

mikey88 · May 2018

Passionate is a strong word. Do you love working so much that you'd do it for free? Personally, I'm working on becoming financially independent so I can focus more of my time on the things that I enjoy doing.

I've had many jobs throughout the years and I realized that I wasn't built to work until age 65 lol.

mmcabe · May 2018

There's a difference between "passionate" and "all the joy is gone." IT can be very stressful and demanding, and I think if you don't have a pretty high level of interest, you'll burn out quickly.

You can definitely earn a living by writing. Corporations need newsletters, tech companies need documentation, etc. etc. On your own time, you can then write your novel or try to break into screenwriting (a screenwriter friend of mine actually pays his bills by writing for video games, so that's another avenue).

Your combination of writing and technical skills makes you unusually marketable to tech companies, so do some investigating.

UnixGuy · May 2018

yeah you definitely can.

I'm not passionate about IT or technology, but I'm doing well, and moving upwards. Any job can and will get mundane and a bit repetitive after a while, the trick is for you to keep perfecting your work, improving yourself, work in good places (with good people) and have future goals to work towards. You can use the money you make from IT to start a family, sponsor a hobby, cross skill, buy a house, etc etc. We're not meant to be in a state of 'joy' 24/7

This is a great book on the topic, I highly recommend reading it:
So Good They Can't Ignore You: Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest for Work You Love - Cal Newport

This book will shed a light on how getting good at something and excelling at something makes it very enjoyable There is a lot to be said about excellence and craftsmanship.

adam220891 · May 2018

My dude, I do this strictly for the cash. I don’t have any fancy computers or networking stuff at home. I’ll throw in an SSD if my laptop needs it and l will answer a question someone has but it’s a means to an end. I leave the tech life in the office.

Nutsy · May 2018

The amount of people who are passionate with their craft is usually small in IT. In my experience about 85% are punching a clock for the paycheck. Sure, they do certs, and may do some reading in off time. However, they don't fantasize about fixing that BGP problem at work.

If writing is your passion, just write. I can't remember the exact interview but I remember hearing about an author of sci-fi who was working at a book store. Guys was a normal dude with no professional passions. Just punching a clock at a book store. He started writing books, and self publishing on Amazon. He admitted his first books were pretty bad. However, later he got good, and got the movie rights purchased by a big name in Hollywood.

I wouldn't feel conflicted about your situation. Just accept your not shooting to be the main guy for a technology at a major tech firm. You are doing this to finance your writing, and develop your skills. There are countless people who I have heard who write in the morning, then go to work. (Or any other schedule you can imagine.)

Also, I would say that you are taking the sensible path to being successful in writing. You don't need to live out of the back of a station wagon, and eat Ramen for year while writing.

Overall, just start writing and ignore the haters.

Fulcrum45 · May 2018

"Passion" gets tossed around a lot as some kind of prerequisite as to whether you belong in IT (or any occupation) but I don't buy it. Mark Cuban once said "don't follow your passion, follow your effort." The harder you work at something the better you get at it. The better you get the more you enjoy it. I believe there's a lot of truth in what he's saying. Like the OP, I'd rather be doing something creative with my time. I knocked out a long overdue cert so now I'm back to working on my graphic novel. I'll never see a dime for it but I don't care

Nutsy · May 2018

Fulcrum45 wrote: »

"Passion" gets tossed around a lot as some kind of prerequisite as to whether you belong in IT (or any occupation) but I don't buy it. Mark Cuban once said "don't follow your passion, follow your effort." The harder you work at something the better you get at it. The better you get the more you enjoy it. I believe there's a lot of truth in what he's saying. Like the OP, I'd rather be doing something creative with my time. I knocked out a long overdue cert so now I'm back to working on my graphic novel. I'll never see a dime for it but I don't care

I agree with Fulcrum45. One theory (no evidence on hand to back this up) is that a lot of tech companies are built on people who either are "passionate" about a topic, or who have the general ability to focus for hours on end at a task/topic. Thus, if you can focus on a specific topic for 12+ hours your employer would over time have disproportionate rewards for the company. This was a phenomenon that happened most notably in Silicon Valley. Companies outside of SV took notice, and in short order it became a standard ethos of companies who wanted more/better productivity. (In addition, a lot of companies suffer from cultures where "they have always done it this way" and bringing in enough people with "passion" can break that culture in time. Thus, there can be some general healthy upside for a stagnant company.)

In general, any new position someone takes has a few new things to learn. Learn those things, and it isn't necessary to get a cert on the topic. Stay on top of what your employer wants. However, you don't have to be the guy reading about all the new things and trying to bring change. Your goal should just to be a solid performer of what your employer asks.

Also, don't be the guy who starts saying "We have always done it here this way."

techie2018 · May 2018

thedudeabides wrote: »

For me, that something is IT--and to clarify, I do like tech and hardware, but only as an occasional hobby. As soon as it's framed into a full-time job, I find all the joy is gone. This leaves me kind of lost.

This happen to a lot of people. In many cases it isn't that you don't have passion for IT. The problem with a lot of the industry is this idea you can't have a work/life balance. You have to work around the clock. I call it the Amazon mindset. If you aren't putting in 60 or 70 hours you aren't doing a good job.

Then the other issue in IT is that something is always broken and it has to be fixed yesterday causes a lot of people stress. Heck it don't even have to be that something is broke, it could be that want everything done as soon as possible.

Anyway both ideas come from the mindset of trying to run employee into the ground to squeeze everything out of them.

Then you add on top of that having to be on call, doing work at all time of the night and on weekend is another issue in IT.

And let's not even bring up the fact that a lot of yours peers in IT guard information like their life depend on only them knowing it, lol.

Not saying these are issues only in the IT space but it seems like you see them far more often in IT. So yeah I can see why people easily burn out in the IT industry.

I always say despite many senior IT folks making over 100K IT workers are actually underpaid considering all the hassle many IT folks deal it.

Check out these articles, they are good reads:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/story-amazon-employee-completely-forgetting-165727596.html

The worst parts about working at Amazon according to employees - Business Insider

tedjames · May 2018

mmcabe wrote: »

There's a difference between "passionate" and "all the joy is gone." IT can be very stressful and demanding, and I think if you don't have a pretty high level of interest, you'll burn out quickly.

You can definitely earn a living by writing. Corporations need newsletters, tech companies need documentation, etc. etc. On your own time, you can then write your novel or try to break into screenwriting (a screenwriter friend of mine actually pays his bills by writing for video games, so that's another avenue).

Your combination of writing and technical skills makes you unusually marketable to tech companies, so do some investigating.

Having worked as a technical writer for many years in several industries, I can attest to that.

Dakinggamer87 · May 2018

adam220891 wrote: »

My dude, I do this strictly for the cash. I don’t have any fancy computers or networking stuff at home. I’ll throw in an SSD if my laptop needs it and l will answer a question someone has but it’s a means to an end. I leave the tech life in the office.

Raises glass to that!!

thedudeabides · May 2018

Lots of great replies here. I went ahead and put that book, "So Great They Can't Ignore You", on my Amazon wish list.

I think I have heard this idea before about not following your passion in a Ted Talk. I just looked it up on Youtube and it seems there are a couple different talks, so I'll have to watch them.

I've written three novels, and the recent string of literary agent rejections got me thinking more on IT and if I could actually continue to survive in it long-term. My last job, which was just 6 months at an infosec startup, burned me out. We were taking on every kind of job, so there was no chance to master anything. Every week was something completely new. And finally my boss blew his top and told me I wasn't learning fast enough. It was at that point I decided I had to resign. I'm trying to find work at larger companies now, hoping things will be different.

scada · May 2018

agree with you on this

Dakinggamer87 wrote: »

Raises glass to that!!

beads · May 2018

Much of this depends on the company you keep and the company or organization you work as well. Currently, working with such a group of alpha-tech-dogs that you either strive to go well and above or simply get out - now! Everyone has a home lab and we often discuss the latest cutting edge research or problem sets we found overnight. Today are all the problems with Windows 10 1807. Released 24 hours or so before this message was written. The guy who missed the extra released overnight was meet with scorn and ridicule. We are a tough bunch.

Over my career I have meet far too many: "I used to do what you do..." people. My response is generally goes like why get out to do (whatever)? Generally I get a response like work/life balance or I find retail sales to be fascinating or some other garbage other than the truth - they sucked.

It depends on what you want to get out of the career field. After awhile the sheer joy may be gone and your simply going to ride out the career field but be miserable doing it but hopefully not for a long while yet.

I feel for you folks who have no interest or passion for the field. That my friend, sounds like a miserable place to be.

- b/eads

adam220891 · May 2018

beads wrote: »

Much of this depends on the company you keep and the company or organization you work as well. Currently, working with such a group of alpha-tech-dogs that you either strive to go well and above or simply get out - now! Everyone has a home lab and we often discuss the latest cutting edge research or problem sets we found overnight. Today are all the problems with Windows 10 1807. Released 24 hours or so before this message was written. The guy who missed the extra released overnight was meet with scorn and ridicule. We are a tough bunch.

Over my career I have meet far too many: "I used to do what you do..." people. My response is generally goes like why get out to do (whatever)? Generally I get a response like work/life balance or I find retail sales to be fascinating or some other garbage other than the truth - they sucked.

It depends on what you want to get out of the career field. After awhile the sheer joy may be gone and your simply going to ride out the career field but be miserable doing it but hopefully not for a long while yet.

I feel for you folks who have no interest or passion for the field. That my friend, sounds like a miserable place to be.

- b/eads

I don't think I entirely agree here.

Yes, there's probably some oddballs out there that truly do get their rocks off when they see BGP converge under a second thanks to BFD and their clever route maps play out exactly as they speak. There's probably someone out there genuinely excited and hours deep reading about the latest incremental release to VMWare. For the rest of us, this isn't going to be the case.

Now, like most here, I seek to maximize my earning potential. Ultimately we're all trading our time for money, let's not kid ourselves. Of course you may not be getting paid while reading that certification guide, but you're growing your skill set to make more money. I naturally seek to do the best I can on anything I do, so it's not enough for me to 'kinda sorta' understand how to setup dynamic routing; I just need to be an expert on it. There's lines drawn, however. I'm not going to lab 4 hours a day every day after work. I use my time outside work to re-energize and relax.

I don't hate what I do, but it's a job. Being good at it helps you feel a sense of accomplishment, but also helps you earn more, which in turn provides a cycle of positive feedback for you. It's work. It's not life and death.

NetworkNewb · May 2018

Yeaaaaaaaa I rather have fun the with kids/wife then spend a ton of hours playing with technology. Technology can be fun, which is why I do this as my career, but definitely not my life.

Basic85 · May 2018

I always thought you had to be passionate about tech or any career you have? I have to practice at home due to being jobless at this point to keep my skills and knowledge sharp.

EANx · May 2018

I think there's a difference between passion and obsession and when I've hired, I might look for either or none. Quite honestly, if I'm hiring for a helpdesk position, I don't care if you have a home lab but there are positions where I need the people to stay up to date with technology and for those, I do look for people with passion. To me, that means someone who tries to go the extra mile to keep themselves current. Someone without passion will only do training when ordered to while someone with passion might ask for vendor training and will watch YouTube and sign up for classes they can afford. They may or may not have a home lab (this is a question about passion, not checkbook size) and they may not have much time. Someone with three young children won't have nearly the time to play around as someone with no kids in the house so "passion" is entirely contextual. Obsession is passion taken to an extreme and often isn't something I want in my workplace. That's the person who ignores their responsibilities and has views that are extreme given the context.

So when I refer to "passion", I want someone who will occasionally say "hey, I was reading this interesting article this weekend <related to something we're doing> and ..." I'll hire talented people without passion but people with passion get bonus points.

UnixGuy · May 2018

beads wrote: »

Much of this depends on the company you keep and the company or organization you work as well. Currently, working with such a group of alpha-tech-dogs that you either strive to go well and above or simply get out - now! Everyone has a home lab and we often discuss the latest cutting edge research or problem sets we found overnight. Today are all the problems with Windows 10 1807. Released 24 hours or so before this message was written. The guy who missed the extra released overnight was meet with scorn and ridicule. We are a tough bunch.

- b/eads

Looks like you guys are having a lot of fun at work

But getting excited about release notes? this is new

Priston · May 2018

I think someone posted this video about passion in another thread before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEuPmVAb8o

You don't have to be passionate about you're career as a whole, just the work that you do and accomplish.

DatabaseHead · May 2018

I love solving puzzles and problems..... When I am strictly engaged in that type of activity it's great, everything is MEH....

ITSec14 · May 2018

beads wrote: »

Over my career I have meet far too many: "I used to do what you do..." people. My response is generally goes like why get out to do (whatever)? Generally I get a response like work/life balance or I find retail sales to be fascinating or some other garbage other than the truth - they sucked.

I know a handful of people who used to work in the industry and changed careers because of limited time with their families. Who am I to judge them for that? They all went on to be successful doing something else in other fields. Working in tech doesn't make any of us better than anyone else who don't work in our space. I'd rather have no passion in my career, but still be able to prioritize my family above it than have the opposite.

Get your ego in check.

the_Grinch · May 2018

I tend to think that until you specialize no passion is really required. Specializing usually means putting in a lot of extra effort and generally enjoying what you are doing. I have yet to meet someone who was passionate about being on helpdesk. But I have seen people who were passionate about a specialization working on a helpdesk and as such grab those tickets related to their passion.

cyberguypr · May 2018

Why does everyone associate passion with being a slave and missing on life? I work in a team exactly like beads described. For a second I actually though he was one of my coworkers but no one here complains much about paper CISSPs so I know it's not him

. We work hard, always push the envelope, and innovate. That doesn't mean that we misss family events, hobbies, etc. Do we invest some time outside of work expanding our knowledge? Yes! Are we slaves that work 70 hours a week a neglect faamily? Nope.

DatabaseHead · May 2018

tedjames wrote: »

Having worked as a technical writer for many years in several industries, I can attest to that.

Here here

You can also get into proposal writing / answering for IT sales efforts, good money in that. Have a previous co worker who is 100% remote, flies all over the place and basically creates slide desks and answers RFP's and makes really freaking good money.

NetworkNewb · May 2018

cyberguypr wrote: »

Do we invest some time outside of work expanding our knowledge? Yes! Are we slaves that work 70 hours a week a neglect faamily? Nope.

This made me think otherwise when he said "Today are all the problems with Windows 10 1807. Released 24 hours or so before this message was written. The guy who missed the extra released overnight was meet with scorn and ridicule." And people who didn't do that kind of stuff and say they prefer a work/life balance "suck".

Honestly if that is what they enjoy, more power to them. Gotta do what you enjoy in life. Different strokes for different folks.

beads · May 2018

UnixGuy wrote: »

Looks like you guys are having a lot of fun at work But getting excited about release notes? this is new

Yeah and its the raunchiest environment outside of the military I've ever witnessed. We have unofficially banned Legal and HR departments from entering the IT area without pre-approval and an appointment. No, not kidding. Its more like working in an 'Animal House' environment than 'normal' IT shops. Hope it never changes.

@adam220891, et. al. This isn't about agreement or disagreement only that their are people who do truly enjoy what we do and can be well paid doing it. Personally, I would find doing anything without passion to be like living in a black and white world with no gray tones. In a word: boring. Then again, most everything I have done in life has been a bit over the top. Go big or get out, that applies to career as well as life.

Not much of a Nietzsche devote, I guess.

- b/eads

Being in IT when you're not as passionate as other people

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