Combining a CCNA with an MCSA?

I wonder about the job opportunities with having both a CCNA and an MCSA? Networking brings in more money, I think, but I have more interest in the desktop side of things. I see a lot of ads where they ask for both certs, and I suppose these are some HR managers putting out a wish-list.

Has anyone with both of these certs managed to find a successful job? I really don't want to go on to a CCNP and pursue pure networking. I thought more well-rounded skills would be good, too.

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it_consultant

CCNA - important to get jobs

MCSA - important to keep jobs

CCNA sounds more impressive, but unless you are hired on as a switch and router guy, most of what you will deal with is covered by the MCSA track.

phantasm

it_consultant wrote: »

CCNA - important to get jobs

MCSA - important to keep jobs

CCNA sounds more impressive, but unless you are hired on as a switch and router guy, most of what you will deal with is covered by the MCSA track.

Not to mention they're intended audiences are different. The MCSA is for the systems side and the CCNA is for networking. While there are valid arguments for a CCNA holder to have an MCSA and vice versa (while I do not see the merit), it is kind of hard to compare.

However, for myself, I hold a CCNA and am working on the CCNP. I plan to study for MCITP:SA only for my own curiosity, I would not try and pass my self off as an admin when all my experience is networking.

But to each their own. If you want both, get both. If you think having both will help you, maybe it will, maybe it won't.

za3bour

It's better to combine CCNA with MCSE but let's remember that CCNA is only for medium size and it's an entry Cert for Cisco.

It's one exam though and some members here got it in one month.

Mojo_666

I would say it is more imprtant for someone doing MCSE type work to hold a CCNA than it is the other way arround, most small/medium size companies will hire someone for server/desktop sys admin type work and it is desirable for them to understand networking at a good level, you will never see a company hire a network guy and not have the windows guys in place already.

rogue2shadow

za3bour wrote: »

It's better to combine CCNA with MCSE but let's remember that CCNA is only for medium size and it's an entry Cert for Cisco.

It's one exam though and some members here got it in one month.

I agree with this on some level. I agree with phantasm's input about passing oneself off as x when your experience is in y. Certs are meant to validate your experience in a specialty or realm of IT. Grabbing an MCSE with zero experience is a shot in the foot but I feel a MCSA makes more of a "I'm familiar with it" statement.

While the CCNA is somewhat of an "entry" level certification (I feel its between the Pro and somewhat after entry level), it is not to be underestimated; Cisco makes you work for the title.

Devilsbane

Right now I'm on the Microsoft train, but I expect some day to at least get a CCNA. I never intend to do Cisco work, but I figure that the knowledge that I gain will help me in other duties. Not to mention, should we fall into another recession than I might have something to fall back on.

za3bour

rogue2shadow wrote: »

I agree with this on some level. I agree with phantasm's input about passing oneself off as x when your experience is in y. Certs are meant to validate your experience in a specialty or realm of IT. Grabbing an MCSE with zero experience is a shot in the foot but I feel a MCSA makes more of a "I'm familiar with it" statement.

While the CCNA is somewhat of an "entry" level certification (I feel its between the Pro and somewhat after entry level), it is not to be underestimated; Cisco makes you work for the title.

Yea I agree I think I used the wrong term, it's not an entry level to be specific it's level 2 of Cisco certs (CCENT is level 1) so you are right it's somewhere in the middle.

Experience of course is what matter at the end of the day no matter how certs you have.

za3bour

phoeneous wrote: »

I completely disagree with your factless statement.

I'm sorry to say it's not factless

Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA®) validates the ability to install, configure, operate, and troubleshoot medium-size route and switched networks

CCNA - Career Certifications & Paths - Cisco Systems

miller811

I have both and completed MCSA after CCNP. One can never have too much knowledge. Would I consider myself an expert on the subject? no, but when I was watching the job boards, lots of companies were looking for people with some experience in all areas. So for me to do MCSA was only three exams, since I already had a NET + and A+ and MS had the free retake at the time. I was/am in the mode of always studying something, so to me it seemed like a no brainer.

SephStorm

za3bour wrote: »

I'm sorry to say it's not factless

CCNA - Career Certifications & Paths - Cisco Systems

:popcorn:

ssampier

I don't see any reason why you can't do both. CCNA is only 2 exams (or one composite exam).

For desktop only, I can't imagine a situation where you would use both switches/routers and support desktops.

For small environments, it is pretty common for all sysadmin, network admin, and desktop admin jobs to be rolled into one or two. In that case both MCSA and CCNA would be helpful.

Bl8ckr0uter

za3bour wrote: »

I'm sorry to say it's not factless

Regardless of what cisco says most CCNAs don't get to run a network. This is simply not the case. I think that's what he was trying to say.

RobertKaucher

Devilsbane wrote: »

Right now I'm on the Microsoft train, but I expect some day to at least get a CCNA. I never intend to do Cisco work, but I figure that the knowledge that I gain will help me in other duties. Not to mention, should we fall into another recession than I might have something to fall back on.

I think it would be very good for you in the long run. Knowing the network is very important. For an IT generalist, I think MCSA(E) and CCNA are a good combo. Even just CCENT might be good.

earweed

True about CCNAs not running the network. That's what the CCNP is for

Bl8ckr0uter

phoeneous wrote: »

Yeah, that's what Cisco says. And you're talking about the certification, I'm talking about a certified person. Just because you only have a ccna doesnt mean youre restricted to work on medium size networks. Im sure there are thousands of ccna's out there working on large enterprise networks. I would know because I did in two of my previous jobs. Heck serveral of my colleagues support the major hotels on the las vegas strip and some of them only have ccent. Experience > certs.

I honestly don't feel that a freshly mented CCNA or CCNP needs to "run" a network. Experience makes things different.

erpadmin

SephStorm wrote: »

:popcorn:

There are so many times I wish that emoticon (the popcorn one) was here....as well as the shaking head one like on other forums.

My post count probably would be double what it is right now. LMAO.

milanchatterjee

SephStorm wrote: »

:popcorn:

Please guys. Do not fight like children here, just over the choice of some words. Whether it is "medium" or "small" or "large" what does it matter.

Milan

RobertKaucher

milanchatterjee wrote: »

Please guys. Do not fight like children here, just over the choice of some words. Whether it is "medium" or "small" or "large" what does it matter.

Milan

I agree. I have an enclosed cage with web cams that we can use the stream the video for all TE members to watch. Winner gets the belt forged of Fibre cables and adorned with hdd platters. Around the center platter is enscribed "Age, Fuc ut Gaudeam."

Bl8ckr0uter

phoeneous wrote: »

"Needs to" or "has the ability to"? Like I said earlier, experience trumps certs. Not every company with a large network has ccie level personnel. If bgp is screwing up and youre the only one duty, and you only have a ccna but you have 5 years experience with bgp then jump on it.

That's why I said freshly minted. If you have 5 years of BGP experience then you are not in the same league as a freshly minted CCNA. If you just have the experience of studying for your ccna you will probably not be able to run a network on your own.

milanchatterjee wrote: »

Please guys. Do not fight like children here, just over the choice of some words. Whether it is "medium" or "small" or "large" what does it matter.

Milan

I think it matters because cisco netcads will tell you that once you get your ccna you will be able to run multimillion dollar networks and make rockstar money and it simply isn't the case. The same goes with MCSE, LPIC, or whatever. These are all a means to an end and the end is experience. That's how you get that paper $$$$

earweed

Personally I'm getting my MCITP:EA and immediately starting to study for the CCNA. Idon't see myself "running" the network but want the knowledge of how the network "works" as studying for the Net+ and MCTS exams has only given me really basic knowledge. Also if a NOC job does open up that I'm interested in then I would have an idea of what to do.
I think all IT people, especially system admins, should have an understanding of network topologies.

erpadmin

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

I think it matters because cisco netcads will tell you that once you get your ccna you will be able to run multimillion dollar networks and make rockstar money and it simply isn't the case. The same goes with MCSE, LPIC, or whatever. These are all a means to an end and the end is experience. That's how you get that paper $$$$

LOL!! I spit out my coffee (almost) at that one.....

I'd buy CCIE, and no one is studying for that the way they'd study for a CCNA. Yeah, someone with no real-world IT experience CAN go for a CCNA with a book and a lab (simulated or real). That is possible and many here have done that. I do agree that the person with no IT experience and a CCNA is not going to run multi-thousand networks (which is typical in small-medium shops), let alone multimillions (that setup isn't even going to get done by one team though, let alone one guy....you will have network engineers in various LANs as part of the WAN...guys in Atlanta, Los Angeles, NYC, etc., etc., etc.).

CCIEs and I would even argue CCNPs (WITH EXPERIENCE) will see a salary something rockstar-like. But a CCNA out-da-gate with no experience. No f'ing way, but that's with any cert, though. And most (if not all) CCIEs are not CCIEs without real-world experience anyway (you would need some real-world experience to pass that lab on top of those lab studies like I see so much in the CCIE blogs).

I do agree with Bl8ck that Cisco certs are great certs to have, but they will never, ever trump experience!

Bl8ckr0uter

Have you ever looked at some of these Netcads advertisements. They are almost as bad as the local school here that advertises to help people become "CSTs"

erpadmin

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Have you ever looked at some of these Netcads advertisements. They are almost as bad as the local school here that advertises to help people become "CSTs"

Oh man dude, I've seen these noname schools that have advertised X amount a year after getting MCSE, CCNA, etc., etc. We all know they're full of crap. I don't know what Netcad is, but I'm sure it's the same type of deal. I was just agreeing with you that CCNA, plus no experience = appropriate entry-level IT salary (read: help desk and/or jr. admin position). "Rockstar" salaries come with experience and/or certs. I knew guys with expired CCNA certs that made $100K+ in NYC and the metro area (Jersey side). Current CCNA certs didn't matter/just the experience competence of Cisco networking.

mikej412

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

Have you ever looked at some of these Netcads advertisements. They are almost as bad as the local school here that advertises to help people become "CSTs"

Do you have a link to one of their ads?

I don't see anything "alarming" about their career page.
Career Information - Cisco Systems

A top graduate recommended by an instructor (with industry experience) at the local academy may be touching and configuring real hardware in our network within a month. Joe Average from the same class would be lucky to get a rack 'n stack position.

Slowhand

Without getting embroiled in the ongoing debate, I wanted to throw in my $0.02.

With the current job-market, specializing is important. If you're interested in Windows Server, you should definitely put your focus on obtaining as much education and experience as possible in that area. The MCSA is a good start, then think about doing the MCSE and upgrading to MCITP: SA or EA. Studying things that are closely related is also helpful, like understanding other Microsoft products, such as Exchange or SQL Server.

That being said, it's also important to understand the basics of other technologies you might come across. The CCNA is essentially entry-level (in comparison to CCNP and CCIE, and it's my opinion that the CCENT doesn't quite cover enough specifics to adequately prepare you for working with Cisco routers and switches on the job,) and earning it in order to round out your knowledge so that you're not completely mystified when you run into a routing or switching issue on the job is always helpful. The same could be said for having an entry-level understanding of Linux by taking the Linux+/LPIC-1 certification, for example.

Keep in mind, this example is one where the focus is on Microsoft technologies. If you were on-track to be a CCIE, for example, you may want to get a little bit of Windows and Linux experience under your belt to go along with it. If you're an RHCE, taking the Windows 7 and CCENT or CCNA exams might not be a bad idea. I'm sure there are more examples, (like JNCIA-ER in place of CCNA,) but you get the picture. The general idea here is to know a little bit about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things. Incidentally, this is also why a lot of people take a bunch of CompTIA exams before moving on to specific vendors, so they'll have a well-rounded foundation in a lot of entry-level things before specializing.

Bl8ckr0uter

mikej412 wrote: »

Do you have a link to one of their ads?

I don't see anything "alarming" about their career page.
Career Information - Cisco Systems

A top graduate recommended by an instructor (with industry experience) at the local academy may be touching and configuring real hardware in our network within a month. Joe Average from the same class would be lucky to get a rack 'n stack position.

I'll have to find one. I remember seeing some ad for a networking academy where they basically said a CCNA can make like 50-70K. I know the CST (computer support technician) advertisements boast how the A+ can get you into the IT field where you will be running an entire network with no problem.

erpadmin

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

I'll have to find one. I remember seeing some ad for a networking academy where they basically said a CCNA can make like 50-70K. I know the CST (computer support technician) advertisements boast how the A+ can get you into the IT field where you will be running an entire network with no problem.

Yeah there is a school in my area (NYC metro) that advertises $50k-$75k with all of the aforementioned certs. This isn't the '90s anymore though.....those guys will be lucky if they make a third to half that amount after graduating from a school like that. Everytime I read that ad on the train I always laugh.

wolverene13

milanchatterjee wrote: »

Please guys. Do not fight like children here, just over the choice of some words. Whether it is "medium" or "small" or "large" what does it matter.

Milan

Yeah, let's not try to whip it out and determine whose network is larger. [insert groans related to pun/innuendo here]

wolverene13

erpadmin wrote: »

Yeah there is a school in my area (NYC metro) that advertises $50k-$75k with all of the aforementioned certs. This isn't the '90s anymore though.....those guys will be lucky if they make a third to half that amount after graduating from a school like that. Everytime I read that ad on the train I always laugh.

I wouldn't totally discount that. The first job I got after getting my NA paid $51k. It depends on where you are and what type of role you're in.

erpadmin

wolverene13 wrote: »

I wouldn't totally discount that. The first job I got after getting my NA paid $51k. It depends on where you are and what type of role you're in.

In Florida? Wow.....you are definitely the exception rather than the rule.

Couple things missing though....

1) What level of experience did you have when you got your first job after your CCNA?

2) What type of job did you get? (network engineer? network admin?)

3) Do you also have a college degree?

4) When did you get your first job? And under what circumstances? (Did you know someone? etc.)

I don't discredit you or your accomplishments...especially if this is in FL, where the job market isn't quite as nice as it is up here (in terms of salary but as you said, it DEPENDS on your role...) but as I said, you are the exception rather than the rule....especially if your first job was recent.