HP Opens Attack on Cisco Certifications

Bokeh

HP opens attack on Cisco certifications

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N2IT

Bokeh wrote: »

HP opens attack on Cisco certifications

Thanks for the story.

Paul Boz

All I can say is "good luck."

veritas_libertas

Paul Boz wrote: »

All I can say is "good luck."

LOL

All I can say is....

I have seen a few HP Procurves. Rare, but I'm sure there is a few places where they are more common.

Paul Boz

I don't mean "good luck" in a negative way (completely). Cisco certs don't just represent knowledge with Cisco equipment. Cisco certs often represent over-arching networking knowledge that is platform independent. Many Juniper admins that I know also have Cisco certs even though they don't do Cisco networking because 90% of the material is still relevant.

it_consultant

Only a few pro curves? They are the second largest switch manufacturer! Rare would be a foundry chassis.

earweed

Interesting article. I can understand why they want Cisco certified people to jump over and certify on their platform. Getting the Cisco certs , anything from CCNA to CCIE, shows an overall knowledge of networking which can easily transfer over to another vendor.

keenon

ALL i can say is good luck. HP documentation is not all that great. I know I have been using the stuff for the past 3 years and they are nowhere at being in an attack mode. At best they are in a "hey we are here, too! over in the corner"

veritas_libertas

it_consultant wrote: »

Only a few pro curves? They are the second largest switch manufacturer! Rare would be a foundry chassis.

Hey, that is just my experience...

Harsh man, harsh!

GAngel

The only problem I have with HP is that there cert website is impossible to navigate. I gave up after 3 days trying to get guys signed up to do some pre-sales stuff.

chrisone

it_consultant wrote: »

Only a few pro curves? They are the second largest switch manufacturer! Rare would be a foundry chassis.

this is true, they are very large and have a huge market in the switching business. Our company uses them for access layer purposes. You get life-time warranty and you can replace any piece/module or the entire unit free of charge anytime anywhere!

I am also in an environment where i could see myself retiring at this place.Also if getting HP certified could help my chances grow long term with the company but also undoubtedly help my career grow, i wouldnt mind progressing with a cert or two from HP (Only networking!). Especially knowing my cisco certs count towards HP certs! You cant go wrong with that!

SephStorm

it_consultant wrote: »

Only a few pro curves? They are the second largest switch manufacturer! Rare would be a foundry chassis.

We have Foundry equipment. Actually I'm looking at taking the entry level Brocade exam here....when I pause from my CCNA studies...

it_consultant

Our ISP (we work closely with them on access layer and some transport stuff) uses the foundry / brocade stuff, very high quality networking equipment. A lot of our customers use this ISP's colocation facility, the equipment is like this: fiber terminates into a Cisco, cisco switches into an intelligent brocade, brocade switches into a dirty switch (a dumb HP) from there we go into various firewalls, under which are more HP switches.

All the manufacturers living happily together in the same rack

subl1m1nal

No doubt. HP bought 3com to up their ante. Cisco is a goliath to take down. Good luck to them. CCNA is globally known as a trusted certification.

On a personal note, I use procurve switches as they're cheaper than Ciscos in most cases. With a lifetime warranty, its hard to turn them down in comparison to Cisco.

I still plan on getting my CCNA someday...after MCITP:EA and CISSP.

it_consultant

Cisco has a lot of carrier level equipment that is excellent. I think people overestimate their needs and figure since cisco is used by the big boys, thats what they should have. Juniper and HP are excellent contenders and are often a more appropriate choice for SMBs and larger businesses.

Paul Boz

it_consultant wrote: »

Cisco has a lot of carrier level equipment that is excellent. I think people overestimate their needs and figure since cisco is used by the big boys, thats what they should have. Juniper and HP are excellent contenders and are often a more appropriate choice for SMBs and larger businesses.

I think there's more to it than that, else Juniper would have a larger footprint in the non-carrier market. People often hate on Cisco because of their price point but the equipment they offer to every level of enterprise or business can't be matched and their support is outstanding. From ISRs to mid-range switching, telco equipment, security appliances, data center grade, to ISP carrier, etc, You can go to Cisco and buy an entire shop that will inter-connect perfectly. Cisco will never say "we can't do that." They have a solution for everything.

it_consultant

Thats not necessarily true, Juniper is a dismal marketer, name recognition is powerful in this industry. Certifications are also big and Cisco's name is far more recognized than Juniper's.

I am lucky to have consulted on enough networks and have been able to see these different manufacturers in action.

Forsaken_GA

It says something that Cisco certs are respected by companies that play with other equipment. Alot of folks seem to regard Cisco as though it were a vendor neutral cert, and most of the knowledge is. Alot of network knowledge is like programming - once you learn the concepts and how everything flows, it's all just syntax differences.

SephStorm

Paul Boz wrote: »

Cisco will never say "we can't do that." They have a solution for everything.

Except how to download an IOS without a support contract?

Paul Boz

SephStorm wrote: »

Except how to download an IOS without a support contract?

While this sucks for people looking to study, its foolish to assume Cisco should just give away IOS to anyone that buys a Cisco router. I do not understand why people feel that IOS should be free. It's highly proprietary internally developed software. Would you expect Microsoft to give away Windows? People think that when they buy a Cisco router they're buying the hardware but in reality you're mostly buying the highly complex and well-developed software that runs on it.

What is the difference between an access-layer switch from Cisco and an access-layer switch from HP? the answer is the operating system. Both vendors can provide the same speed, port density, and many of the same features, but the underlying operating system is what differentiates the products. To expect the operating system - the part of the device that makes it uniquely Cisco - should be free, is perhaps misguided.

[Deleted User]

SephStorm wrote: »

Except how to download an IOS without a support contract?

Supposedly there is a lab IOS in development so you may get your wish here.

it_consultant

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

It says something that Cisco certs are respected by companies that play with other equipment. Alot of folks seem to regard Cisco as though it were a vendor neutral cert, and most of the knowledge is. Alot of network knowledge is like programming - once you learn the concepts and how everything flows, it's all just syntax differences.

This is true, but it is certainly not vender neutral. The exams are rigorous which is why they garner a lot of respect. A lot of juniper admins on these very forums have Cisco certs because they are so well respected. It doesn't take long working with other equipment to find where Cisco leads and falls behind. Provided you stick to the standards based protocols Cisco lives very well with other manufacturer's devices.

Forsaken_GA

it_consultant wrote: »

This is true, but it is certainly not vender neutral. The exams are rigorous which is why they garner a lot of respect. A lot of juniper admins on these very forums have Cisco certs because they are so well respected. It doesn't take long working with other equipment to find where Cisco leads and falls behind. Provided you stick to the standards based protocols Cisco lives very well with other manufacturer's devices.

Oh, I'm not arguing that Cisco is vendor neutral. The Design certification track cured me of any such misconception.

But in general, the majority of the knowledge is vendor neutral. OSPF works the same way on Juniper devices as it does on Cisco, it's just the configuration syntax that changes. The exams themselves are rigid, sure, and basically ask you how to configure things for IOS, but you'll probably have a good understanding of what happens when you type in each command, and that's the important part.

ITGuyRick

it_consultant wrote: »

Only a few pro curves? They are the second largest switch manufacturer! Rare would be a foundry chassis.

Hey, I have a bunch of Foundry chassis down the hall.

SephStorm

Supposedly there is a lab IOS in development so you may get your wish here.

I read about that, haven't heard any updates though.

While this sucks for people looking to study, its foolish to assume Cisco should just give away IOS to anyone that buys a Cisco router. I do not understand why people feel that IOS should be free. It's highly proprietary internally developed software. Would you expect Microsoft to give away Windows? People think that when they buy a Cisco router they're buying the hardware but in reality you're mostly buying the highly complex and well-developed software that runs on it.

True. But I don't think its quite a fair comparison. If I were to buy a cisco device from an Authorized reseller, I would be paying a lot of money, much more than I would from a third party. Also, I'm sure most resellers don't sell the older equipment that is in labs today, so I am going to be paying more still. And finally, there is the support contract.

Compare that to MS, I buy a PC without Windows, I can simply walk into a store and buy a copy. They still get their money, If I want to upgrade, I buy the new version.

Why can't Cisco do something similar, "IOS Mart" pay a decent price for the IOS version you want to buy. I would probably get involved.

it_consultant

ITGuyRick wrote: »

Hey, I have a bunch of Foundry chassis down the hall.

I'm jealous! Foundries (or Brocades now) are excellent switches, easily on par with Cisco and less expensive too. I try to get my coworkers to consider them, but we are a procurve shop.

EMcCaleb

it_consultant wrote: »

I'm jealous! Foundries (or Brocades now) are excellent switches, easily on par with Cisco and less expensive too. I try to get my coworkers to consider them, but we are a procurve shop.

Have you had a chance to play with Juniper's switches? I would strongly recommend them to anyone. Just like everything else Juniper, it may be just to powerful for its own good.

it_consultant

I have only worked with Juniper firewalls and an old SSLVPN appliance. I am sure their switches are great, I have had nothing but good experiences with the Junipers I have worked on.

EMcCaleb

it_consultant wrote: »

I have only worked with Juniper firewalls and an old SSLVPN appliance. I am sure their switches are great, I have had nothing but good experiences with the Junipers I have worked on.

Right, i just read your previous comments, and I agree with everything you've said. You bring up a good point with regards to their marketing. They appear to be so ISP and government focused that they often fall out of consideration in the commercial enterprise.

Forsaken_GA

it_consultant wrote: »

I'm jealous! Foundries (or Brocades now) are excellent switches, easily on par with Cisco and less expensive too. I try to get my coworkers to consider them, but we are a procurve shop.

Play with Force10's stuff, I think you'll be surprised.