Respect

Do you guys feel respect at work by your coworkers and bosses? How do you deal with a respect issue (or lack there off) among you and your coworkers? Does it even matter to you whether or not you are respected?

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RTmarc

As long as that nice paycheck keeps finding its way into my bank account and I can work on my stuff without unnecessary interruptions I could not care less if every other employee respects me. People worry too much about what other people think.

Pash

Respect should be mutually exclusive. So if I do not receive it I don't give it back. Problem solved.

Ahriakin

I think it's very important, depending on the respect you have for those you work with (which in the end comes down to your own self-respect aswell since you should just up and leave if you think things are that bad). For better or worse I tie a lot of my ego into my job, I can live with not being liked by everyone (hell that's a natural part of infosec), or disrespected by those I know just don't have a clue about why we do what we do, but yeah it would hit pretty hard if someone who's opinion I do value thought I was an idiot.
Besides the simple human nature aspect there's only so far your own judgment of your your abilities can take you, if you refuse to at least evaluate what other's think of you then you're doomed imho (and obviously just as bad is placing too much importance on external respect, like anything in life you need balance here, just not exclusion or exaggeration).

UnixGuy

Yes I do feel a lot of respect by my boss & co-workers, I earned it the hard way.

I earned it because I did my job quietly, and perfectly at the same time. Boss knew about that because our customers said very nice things about when they meet my boss. So if you do your work in the best way possible, and keep quiet about it, you will earn respect. Your work will be good when you work hard on yourself..

Even if some jealous co-worker bad mouth you behind your back or try to belittle you, this is all useless because your work & ethics will show eventually. The time will come when there's a complicated problem & you jump and solve it, you will be a rockstar

And one key thing to keep in mind: Don't get into personal issues with anybody, you will lose all your respect the moment you get into personal uncalled for problems.

jtoast

I don't think I would do very well if I had to work with people I don't respect. My track record says I either fire them or quit.

bertieb

Yes, but I've known my current boss (and some of his bosses) for over 12 years and I know how they operate and vice-versa.

Prior to taking this job though last year, I worked for a company for a few months and you couldn't buy respect with hard work, or even if you paid to get it yourself! To be fair I can cope with a lack of respect because I know my own abilities, strengths and weaknesses and am always willing to take onboard opinions - respect is typically something you earn over time rather than being given immediately. What I couldn't cope with was the fact it was an awful place to work with low morale, back stabbing at every corner and no willingness to do the job efficiently.....and properly..... which is why when my current employers came knocking I jumped without looking back.

Bl8ckr0uter

My title is network and security admin but basically the job is nothing more than server babysitting and playing the hurry up and wait game. When I was hired I told I would be on special projects for network gear. This has not happened. I was told I would get to roll out a new firewall. This is being held up by another project that has been going on for longer than I have been here. My boss acts like she only half way trusts my opinion and they always look to the other guy first, for anything and if they come to me first, they always ask his opinion to make sure they have "all of the information", which basically means that they want to make sure I'm right. Even if he has no idea what he is talking about or doesn't know as much about a subject as I do, he still gets the last word. It is extremely annoying.

If it isn't their golden boy, its the developers. Prime example: They updated production code this morning while people were on the website. This is a dumbass thing to do as we usually go through change control or at least get a change window but they said "In my experience it is ok" and just did it. Yesterday I fixed a website problem after figuring out what dll a site needed registered and registered it in IIS. I then asked for a dll file map (which site buttons/objects points to which dlls) and their response was "That's not possible, just register them all". I then asked about all of these extra files they published that aren't called by the project and they said "don't worry about it".

I am just highly annoyed right now.

skyline

Pash wrote: »

Respect should be mutually exclusive. So if I do not receive it I don't give it back. Problem solved.

+++++

This

networker050184

I don't know your exact situation, but having a second opinion on your suggestions or an extra set of eyes isn't abnormal. Everything we do is checked and double checked by peers and discussed among everyone. No one single person makes a decision (big decisions that is, small things are a different story). Sometimes you have to put your pride aside. Especially when someone shoots down your idea. At first I felt a little weird having everything I wrote up looked over and scrutinized with a fine tooth comb, but you just have to realize its for the best of the company. And a second opinion is never a bad thing.

As far as management trusting the other guy more, thats just a fact of life. People feel more comfortable with someone they have more experience dealing with. Once you put in your time and build up that same comfort level things will change. Once you build that up they are sure to notice that you know what you are talking about and will value your opinion more. You may be the one getting brought in to give the second opinion.

But I agree with the others, mutual respect is a must. Respect must be earned though.

Bl8ckr0uter

networker050184 wrote: »

I don't know your exact situation, but having a second opinion on your suggestions or an extra set of eyes isn't abnormal. Everything we do is checked and double checked by peers and discussed among everyone. No one single person makes a decision (big decisions that is, small things are a different story). Sometimes you have to put your pride aside. Especially when someone shoots down your idea. At first I felt a little weird having everything I wrote up looked over and scrutinized with a fine tooth comb, but you just have to realize its for the best of the company. And a second opinion is never a bad thing.

As far as management trusting the other guy more, thats just a fact of life. People feel more comfortable with someone they have more experience dealing with. Once you put in your time and build up that same comfort level things will change. Once you build that up they are sure to notice that you know what you are talking about and will value your opinion more. You may be the one getting brought in to give the second opinion.

But I agree with the others, mutual respect is a must. Respect must be earned though.

I agree with you. But sometimes (actually most times) I know he is doing it just to polish himself. He actually told me (at one point) that he wanted to do security (before they hired me) and then they hired me and how he is a security guy at heart. Now I am suppose to be this guy's JR but he tells me that he wants my role. The funny thing is that is exactly how he acts. Always second guessing me or questioning me on anything and everything. I think he does it just to piss me off.

He reoccuring line is "Just in case you get hit by a bus or win the lottery" but apparently it doesn't go both ways. Like he'll want me to explain to him anything and everything about a particular project I did, how I did it and etc but he won't say anything about the virtual environment because it is "complicated". Or the storage environment because it is "complicated". Or how the hell he is rolling out those servers because it is "complicated". Or what he did to Exchange to allow IIS to relay mail because it is "complicated". BS is more like it.

Honestly I have no problem with being the number 2 as I have said in the pass. I have no problem with being someone's JR but as a SR you are suppose to mentor and lead the JRs, not belittle and cockblock them. I just don't think that's how it should be.

networker050184

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

I agree with you. But sometimes (actually most times) I know he is doing it just to polish himself. He actually told me (at one point) that he wanted to do security (before they hired me) and then they hired me and how he is a security guy at heart. Now I am suppose to be this guy's JR but he tells me that he wants my role. The funny thing is that is exactly how he acts. Always second guessing me or questioning me on anything and everything. I think he does it just to piss me off.

He reoccuring line is "Just in case you get hit by a bus or win the lottery" but apparently it doesn't go both ways. Like he'll want me to explain to him anything and everything about a particular project I did, how I did it and etc but he won't say anything about the virtual environment because it is "complicated". Or the storage environment because it is "complicated". Or how the hell he is rolling out those servers because it is "complicated". Or what he did to Exchange to allow IIS to relay mail because it is "complicated". BS is more like it.

I'd suggest bringing in a change management process. Everything you or he does must be formally written up (from a basic summary all the way down the the individual commands etc.) and properly reviewed by the other (or someone else if you have more than two people). This will not only ensure everyone has a good idea of whats going on, it will also give a chance for mistakes to be caught before they happen.

It sounds like you will probably have a better chance getting something like this implemented before you will get the other guy to voluntarily give up the info on what he does.

RobertKaucher

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

If it isn't their golden boy, its the developers. Prime example: They updated production code this morning while people were on the website. This is a dumbass thing to do as we usually go through change control or at least get a change window but they said "In my experience it is ok" and just did it. Yesterday I fixed a website problem after figuring out what dll a site needed registered and registered it in IIS. I then asked for a dll file map (which site buttons/objects points to which dlls) and their response was "That's not possible, just register them all". I then asked about all of these extra files they published that aren't called by the project and they said "don't worry about it".

I am just highly annoyed right now.

So you are expected to be a security admin who simply rolls over to them and registers DLLs whose purpose the people who created refuse to disclose to you? It sounds like you are being actively prevented from performing your primary job function. Do you feel like you were hired so that when (not if) something goes wrong there is a person on whom blame can be placed?

The big issue I see here is that your company has hired you into a position for which they have not made a commitment to back.

Bl8ckr0uter

RobertKaucher wrote: »

So you are expected to be a security admin who simply rolls over to them and registers DLLs whose purpose the people who created refuse to disclose to you? It sounds like you are being actively prevented from performing your primary job function. Do you feel like you were hired so that when (not if) something goes wrong there is a person on whom blame can be placed?

The big issue I see here is that your company has hired you into a position for which they have not made a commitment to back.

No. I think I was hired because HIPAA requires different duties to be handled by different folks. Plus I'm black so EOE lol.
Seriously though, I can't even get a freaking network purchase so we can move our PCs off non managed switches. I'm like man wtf I ask for simple stuff.

jahsoul

RTmarc wrote: »

As long as that nice paycheck keeps finding its way into my bank account and I can work on my stuff without unnecessary interruptions I could not care less if every other employee respects me. People worry too much about what other people think.

Where in Birmingham can I find a nice paycheck? lol *Birmingham native*

But I feel you completely BR. I feel like that sometimes at my current place of employment. Everything that I say or suggest is second guessed. For instance, after someone changed the VTP status of a 4506, the whole school lost connectivity. The "higher ups" were trying to figure out what was going on. I kindly stated that the revision was 0 so another switch had to be in server mode and have a higher rev. number. He replied that it couldn't be it because it was in server mode and servers can't be changed. (In my head, I'm thinking "huh?") Anyway, they went and consulted with about 3 others to figure out what was going on. The next day, the guys counterpart told us that an old 3500xl was in server mode. I just sat there quietly. I feel like I get no respect, until a school's network goes down. and I'm the one getting the call to bring it back up.

TheShadow

Respect... deep subject, and depends on what respect means to you. One should look inward and ask oneself "why do I care?". I place a heavy toll on the word respect; not being a a-hole is more important.

Most of the people that I truly respect are dead and therefore can not lose my respect in the future. As to if people respect me; I have no right to know what they think of me, therefore to care is to only generate undue stress. I am of the dual mindset "nothing behind me matters" and "what have I or you done lately". A reason that I don't list certs or degrees is it really doesn't matter to me; what I have done today however does. As to being upset with what other people do, well, you can be right or you can be happy. I choose happiness.

I have two paraphrased quotes behind my desk of a dead person that I respect.

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
--Albert Einstein

Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.
--Albert Einstein

The shadows corollary.. If you end the day without learning something new you are screwed. Learn more; fight evil.

Oh and document, document, document

Psoasman

I generally feel respected by my co-workers and management. I think some of the main reasons you get respect is by being honest, showing integrity-this means owning up to any mistakes right away, and doing more than is required.
It's more important to me to have the respect of my fellow techs, than the other departments at work. If someone, doesn't respect me, I can live with it.

it_consultant

I am a consultant so I deal with various levels of disrespect each day. For example, just earlier this week I supplied a competitive dell quote because they wanted to see the price difference between dell and a HP quote I had done earlier. They took my quote and sent it to a third party and asked them to see if they could get better pricing through Dell. The insinuation was that I doctored the Dell quote to make it more expensive. I would never do that, its too easy to just go on the Dell website and check the pricing. If your wondering, I always expect to be shopped behind my back.

At some point (and I am at this point with this client) you have to say "You have to trust that I know what I am doing, if you don't, this relationship is not going to work". If your recommendations aren't getting the consideration they deserve, you might have to look for a new job.

SteveLord

Pash wrote: »

Respect should be mutually exclusive. So if I do not receive it I don't give it back. Problem solved.

This is kind of how I operate. I'll still support everyone and get the job done obviously. But certain people do happen to get priority attention because they don't talk about me behind my back (which I always find out about) and they are patient.

Side note: I can also be bought off with lunch or Twix bars for special favors.

it_consultant

Pash wrote: »

Respect should be mutually exclusive. So if I do not receive it I don't give it back. Problem solved.

I think this displays an almost scary lack of maturity. It is even more disturbing that people don't seem to recognize how dangerous this type of attitude is both personally and professionally. Even if you are right, if you don't approach professional issues with courtesy and respect (regardless of whether you received it in the first place) you will have issues.

What really irks me about this is that it is this exact attitude from IT people that has caused our profession to lack credibility. I have to fix this perception at nearly every client I work with.

I am not singling out Pash for my rage, please don't take it personally.

UnixGuy

Looks like you're dealing with a typical jealous sneaky guys, one that will probably backstab you whenever possible so be careful.

This is how I deal with this kinda guy:
When he asks to see what I'm doing, I try to ignore and when I look at him I tell him that I'm currently busy and will get back to him later.

When he's around I keep starring at my screen & give him the illusion of being busy, and I NEVER give him a friendly smile or gesture. Just keep him far from you. He's obviously hiding knowledge from you, so you do your best to get the projects alone...

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

I agree with you. But sometimes (actually most times) I know he is doing it just to polish himself. He actually told me (at one point) that he wanted to do security (before they hired me) and then they hired me and how he is a security guy at heart. Now I am suppose to be this guy's JR but he tells me that he wants my role. The funny thing is that is exactly how he acts. Always second guessing me or questioning me on anything and everything. I think he does it just to piss me off.

He reoccuring line is "Just in case you get hit by a bus or win the lottery" but apparently it doesn't go both ways. Like he'll want me to explain to him anything and everything about a particular project I did, how I did it and etc but he won't say anything about the virtual environment because it is "complicated". Or the storage environment because it is "complicated". Or how the hell he is rolling out those servers because it is "complicated". Or what he did to Exchange to allow IIS to relay mail because it is "complicated". BS is more like it.

Honestly I have no problem with being the number 2 as I have said in the pass. I have no problem with being someone's JR but as a SR you are suppose to mentor and lead the JRs, not belittle and cockblock them. I just don't think that's how it should be.

RobertKaucher

it_consultant wrote: »

I think this displays an almost scary lack of maturity. It is even more disturbing that people don't seem to recognize how dangerous this type of attitude is both personally and professionally. Even if you are right, if you don't approach professional issues with courtesy and respect (regardless of whether you received it in the first place) you will have issues.

What really irks me about this is that it is this exact attitude from IT people that has caused our profession to lack credibility. I have to fix this perception at nearly every client I work with.

I am not singling out Pash for my rage, please don't take it personally.

I really don't think that Pash means this in the way that you are taking it. Assuming I understand him correctly this is a natural and very human perspective. He is simply stating that if people treat him kindly he will return the favor. If they do not, he does not go out of his way to show either deference or kindness too them. But not going out of your way in showing kindness to someone is not the same as being unkind to them or punishing them for percieved slights. It is non-binary thinking. A lack of respect for someone does not equal being disrespectful, rude or unprofessional, to them. There are several people in my life for whom I have less respect than others, but that does not mean I am rude to them when I am forced to interact with them. This would only worsen the situation. Being a professional does not mean lavishing respect indiscriminately on others.

chrisone

I feel trust earns respect. You gain trust with your coworkers by doing a good job. Even if someone didnt like you personally he cannot hide that fact that you do a good job at work and at times needs your expertise from time to time.

In the end I do believe you should have some respect between your coworkers based off on work. You dont have to respect each other outside of work, just always inside of work, no ifs, ands, or buts. You need to have respect at work in order to complete tasks and for your own psychological health, it would suck going to work everyday and having a problem with someone and always feeling on edge.

I myself love my work and try my best to make it the best work environment i could have. That includes being friendly , accepting when your wrong, congratulating others achievements, talking with fellow coworkers, being honest, sharing jokes, helping others with tasks, and not throwing anyone under the bus, or trying to upstage anyone at work!

Pishof

I'm lucky in that I work in a rural K-12 and generally all the staff are very friendly and respective of each other.

Just yesterday I walked into a building and both and principal and secretary yelled my name in greeting. I told the secretary that may have been the warmest welcome I've ever received and in return was told that I'm the person they are always the happiest to see. She even told her husband she is happier when I walk in the door than him.

UnixGuy

chrisone wrote: »

I feel trust earns respect. You gain trust with your coworkers by doing a good job. Even if someone didnt like you personally he cannot hide that fact that you do a good job at work and at times needs your expertise from time to time.

In the end I do believe you should have some respect between your coworkers based off on work. You dont have to respect each other outside of work, just always inside of work, no ifs, ands, or buts. You need to have respect at work in order to complete tasks and for your own psychological health, it would suck going to work everyday and having a problem with someone and always feeling on edge.

I myself love my work and try my best to make it the best work environment i could have. That includes being friendly , accepting when your wrong, congratulating others achievements, talking with fellow coworkers, being honest, sharing jokes, helping others with tasks, and not throwing anyone under the bus, or trying to upstage anyone at work!

+1 rep for a great answer

RobertKaucher

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

If it isn't their golden boy, its the developers.

I offer you the following pieces of awesomeness to console you:

YouTube - Developers
xkcd: Ballmer Peak

rsutton

I like honest respect, don't really care for fake praise. Honest respect often means you have a good name, and a good name is worth it's weight in gold.

TheShadow

RobertKaucher wrote: »

I offer you the following pieces of awesomeness to console you:

YouTube - Developers

Well that vid combined two events in two different years. The monkey boy dance scared quite a few people on Wall Street and required some back room reassurances that he was really just giving a pep talk to the troops.