Lab date scheduled

Well, it's official. Lab date set for January 31st, 2011 at RTP. There's nothing more motivating for me than a date ticking down like that.

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ColbyG

Good luck!

networker050184

Awesome man. Hopefully you will be a first time go!

Turgon

Nuul wrote: »

Well, it's official. Lab date set for January 31st, 2011 at RTP. There's nothing more motivating for me than a date ticking down like that.

How is your prep going? Wont be long now.

Good luck!

reaper81

Good luck! How did you prepare for your attempt?

CCIEWANNABE

Good luck! Wish you all the best. I will be following you shortly after. My Lab date is Early Feb.

Turgon

We haven't heard from Nuul since July last year so I hope he's still chugging along.

tndfr

Turgon wrote: »

We haven't heard from Nuul since July last year so I hope he's still chugging along.

how come we keep losing so many people to this? sure, CCIE is difficult and stressfull but it doesnt drive people over the edge.... i was looking for some posts were people have actually passed the lab exam but there seems to be a trend (they all start full of motivation and then it slowly fades away untill you dont hear from them at all)....

Akiii

He's probably still celebrating *< : - )

chmorin

tndfr wrote: »

how come we keep losing so many people to this? sure, CCIE is difficult and stressfull but it doesnt drive people over the edge.... i was looking for some posts were people have actually passed the lab exam but there seems to be a trend (they all start full of motivation and then it slowly fades away untill you dont hear from them at all)....

It takes a certain type of person to continue trying to pass after investing thousands of dollars into failing exam. Specifically, it takes a CCIE apparently. The pursuit after you fail makes you stronger than you were the first time, its part of life. Does not mean it does not suck.

By the time you get to expert level, most people already have high end CCNP/CCIE jobs. So if you invest all that time and effort, not get a result, and work still isnt backing down, then its hard to get the mojo back.

I'm not sure how the hero's here do it. But I have such respect and trust in their words that I'm sure stems from the path that they have followed. Let people like Turgon and Mike around here inspire you to continue forward.

For all we know he passed the CCIE and got attacked by thousands of hot cheerleaders on a schoolbus. That is what cisco usually gives its first time passers.

Right?

Forsaken_GA

tndfr wrote: »

how come we keep losing so many people to this? sure, CCIE is difficult and stressfull but it doesnt drive people over the edge.... i was looking for some posts were people have actually passed the lab exam but there seems to be a trend (they all start full of motivation and then it slowly fades away untill you dont hear from them at all)....

There's alot of information, and folks are usually in a hurry to do it. This leads to burnout pretty easily.

It can be frustrating to study a subject to the point where you consider yourself a subject matter expert, and then you move on to your next subject and realize you've forgotten quite a bit about what you've studied before. This leads people to feel like they're going in circles and not making any gain.

My personal approach to study for the CCIE is basically, I know I'm not going to retain full knowledge of everything I study. I need to do the basic crap enough that it's automatic. My fingers should develop enough muscle memory to the point where my brain doesn't really engage when I'm doing something stupid easy like setting up BGP sessions.

For everything else, I don't need to memorize how everything works. Down that path lay insanity. What I need to do is understand the core concepts so that I can put all the pieces together so I can see what's happening. And once I've done that, to prevent the need from having to memorize uber specific stuff, I need to know WHERE in the DocCD to find that information.

So basically I need to able to comprehend what's happening, or what the scenario is asked for, I need to have enough familiarity to be able to configure it quickly and correctly, and for the little gotchas and the little details, I don't need to committ them to memory, I just need to committ their location in the documentation to memory.

But what it all boils down to is that you eat the elephant one bite at a time.

tndfr

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

I don't need to committ them to memory, I just need to committ their location in the documentation to memory.

that rhymes well with me, i am a programmer by trade and this makes so much sense!

i have a couple of CCIEs working with me and they are the most knowledgeable people i know, i think going through the CCIE path changes you as a person, you become more zen and cool somehow.... these people are considered gods where i work, when you ask them a simple question they answer you with raging passion to the point of anger (thumping veins included) .... very inspirational

Forsaken_GA

tndfr wrote: »

that rhymes well with me, i am a programmer by trade and this makes so much sense!

i have a couple of CCIEs working with me and they are the most knowledgeable people i know, i think going through the CCIE path changes you as a person, you become more zen and cool somehow.... these people are considered gods where i work, when you ask them a simple question they answer you with raging passion to the point of anger (thumping veins included) .... very inspirational

Yeah, there are alot of things that experience teaches you.

Unfortunately Cisco has some places where they want you to do it 'the cisco way', so there's a little bit of deprogramming involved hehe

Turgon

tndfr wrote: »

how come we keep losing so many people to this? sure, CCIE is difficult and stressfull but it doesnt drive people over the edge.... i was looking for some posts were people have actually passed the lab exam but there seems to be a trend (they all start full of motivation and then it slowly fades away untill you dont hear from them at all)....

The problem with the CCIE is the work rate requirements. It's very different from the other exams as you need to be hitting the keyboard on a regular basis. The people that pass are putting the hours in daily, sometimes for a very extended period of time. Studying on the works dollar helps there but you still need evening and weekend time. A rack session runs to 5 hours and a practice scenario 3 or 4. A mock exam is 8 hours. Once people get stuck into the track they begin to understand just how much time is required to get through and master the material and often this doesn't sit well with everything they have on at work, at home and in their lives. To compensate some people cram the lab preparation but the results are mixed there, we often find drop out after people have attacked the lab prep to the exclusion of everything else around them. They fail and pay a price socially and professionally as they are behind on those important aspects of their lives and need to retrench there. It can be months before a balance is reached before they return to their studies again. If the study habits have not been adjusted it's a vicious circle.

Everyone is a little different in terms of what will work for them. Some people are good to go inside 12 months and for others it's a long game. It depends what you have to work with and to a large degree on your time commitments and patience of people around you. The key is to find the balance that works for your studies, your employer and loved ones and do that. Hopefully Nuul achieved that and passed. If so good luck to him. It's a hard track. I imagine for every 50 CCIE written passers only one goes on to clear the lab. I think 6 regulars have passed on TE in 3 years so it's certainly an accomplishment!

Turgon

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

There's alot of information, and folks are usually in a hurry to do it. This leads to burnout pretty easily.

It can be frustrating to study a subject to the point where you consider yourself a subject matter expert, and then you move on to your next subject and realize you've forgotten quite a bit about what you've studied before. This leads people to feel like they're going in circles and not making any gain.

My personal approach to study for the CCIE is basically, I know I'm not going to retain full knowledge of everything I study. I need to do the basic crap enough that it's automatic. My fingers should develop enough muscle memory to the point where my brain doesn't really engage when I'm doing something stupid easy like setting up BGP sessions.

For everything else, I don't need to memorize how everything works. Down that path lay insanity. What I need to do is understand the core concepts so that I can put all the pieces together so I can see what's happening. And once I've done that, to prevent the need from having to memorize uber specific stuff, I need to know WHERE in the DocCD to find that information.

So basically I need to able to comprehend what's happening, or what the scenario is asked for, I need to have enough familiarity to be able to configure it quickly and correctly, and for the little gotchas and the little details, I don't need to committ them to memory, I just need to committ their location in the documentation to memory.

But what it all boils down to is that you eat the elephant one bite at a time.

Memory is a moot point. Some memorization is useful towards the end of your studies although that tends to come with regular lab practice and is somewhat akin to learning to play the piano well. Your points are valid though. I think one problem is people trying to clatter through the track which leads to a lot of frustration on the part of candidates when it just doesn't work out for them. It also leads to cheating. The v3 lab was so badly compromised the lab was for sale online and droves of people passed through memorizing the exam. If feel sorry for the ligit candidates who slogged their way through that version. Cisco put a stop to the nonsense with v4 but that creates issues for people who were not quite there for v3 (myself) as we have to reorientate for a new game. I think in 2012 we will see another change once compromise reaches a level to justify it, so I need to get a move on. Cheating is a nonsense though. There are lots of CCIE dummies out there, my present shop ejected two of them quickly once the number got them through the door. At the level we work, the best engineers are a range of CCNP/CCIE's but all are required to work at the CCIE level and if you haven't got the goods you get shafted.

So far as studying is concerned there are two requirements. One is to cover the blueprint properly and the second is to pull it all together. Compressing the two doesn't sit well but its a trend that has been there for years since people stopped studying for the written exam properly. For my part I have passed blueprint requirement by amassing hundreds of hours of reading and rack time over the last three years. Having got to that point, now I need a window of three months to do lab practice everyday and pull it all together. But you have to get to that point first. It need not take three years. I was contracting and nobody paid me my rates to sit around in the office all afternoon doing practice labs or reading Cisco press books to further my career. I had serious work to do for my client. So it was all an evening and weekend endeavour, and it took three years because we were also busy raising kids indoors.

The same can be said for where Im at today. During the day my time is badly needed by my company so no study window there at the moment. In the evening Im giving my wife a hand and a break with the kids. By 10pm we are exhausted starfish on the sofa. It all has to happen the next day so you get what rest you can. Cranking out a lab session at 11pm would be futile, too tired to do it properly and the cumulative effect would be lousy performance at work and at home.

But it will not always be so. Later in the year the three month window is waiting for me. Meanwhile I snatch a half hour with the technology documentation when I can.

Kelkin

Just wanted to say thank you guys.. Ive here in the past month or so been really struggling with motivation.. Especially with all thats going on right now.. Work promised to pay for the lab and when I was ready to schedule was like oh umm about that.. theres been a "freeze" on unnecessary spending.. yada yada.. kinda burst my bubble.. then bunch of other RL crap..

One of the things keeping me motivated is reading these threads and seeing that Im not alone.. Guess one of the things I have learned the hardway its more about the jounrey to IE then getting it..

tndfr

Kelkin wrote: »

Just wanted to say thank you guys.. Ive here in the past month or so been really struggling with motivation.. Especially with all thats going on right now.. Work promised to pay for the lab and when I was ready to schedule was like oh umm about that.. theres been a "freeze" on unnecessary spending.. yada yada.. kinda burst my bubble.. then bunch of other RL crap..

One of the things keeping me motivated is reading these threads and seeing that Im not alone.. Guess one of the things I have learned the hardway its more about the jounrey to IE then getting it..

Motivation is everything and this forum certainly has that going for it!
sorry to hear about your company not paying for your lab, asking mine to pay for the exams is challenge for itself especially when it is something completely different from my job title, they are literally doing me a favour...
how much would it cost an average joe to get CCIE?

chmorin

tndfr wrote: »

how much would it cost an average joe to get CCIE?

The lab itself floats around 2k. Add in the written exam, which is a few hundred, travel and staying expenses, and just the weekend of taking the test is floating you thousands.

Then you add in books and thousands of dollars in potential testing equipment and lab hours. An individual properly preparing for the exam could be out near 8-10k by the end of it all. Especially if they don't pass the first time.

tndfr

chmorin wrote: »

The lab itself floats around 2k. Add in the written exam, which is a few hundred, travel and staying expenses, and just the weekend of taking the test is floating you thousands.

Then you add in books and thousands of dollars in potential testing equipment and lab hours. An individual properly preparing for the exam could be out near 8-10k by the end of it all. Especially if they don't pass the first time.

there is something about Cisco, it is respected in every company i worked for, i am in a completely different field though still related (developing software for networked PICs) but it is highly valued in the company i work for...

i think your signature says it all "cisco is a lifestyle"......... i'll do my CCIE just for the heck of it (did someone mention a school bus full of cheerleaders?)