CCIE in decline?

The training vendors are laying instructors off. Many have taken permanent jobs. We expect to hit 30000 CCIE's anytime soon. Anyone watching CCIE pass testimonies on the grey vendor sites can see that most of the passers are in the Middle east or Asia, fewer in the US.

Has the CCIE peaked?

My feeling is that the timeserved CCIE's (10+ years network experience) are in a very good position as in any piechart driven company because *someone* has to know how things actually work, and how much time and expenditure is needed to make them work. The newly minted CCIE's less so. They are 10 years too late and cheaper CCIEs are available for hire in China (the numbers of Chinese CCIEs is soon to surpass US CCIEs and they are way cheaper to hire).

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Comments

QHalo

The first number was 1024, which went to the exam. The numbers are misleading and there are several inactives. There was a site I believe that had some more definitive numbers and inactive status but I'm probably mistaken. It's definitely a milestone, but I'm not sure if its more or less than when it hit 10k or 20k. It definitely hit 30k very quickly.

Terry Slattery – the very first Cisco CCIE in history « CertProject |

DPG

There are only around 17k CCIE's in the world and about a quarter of them work for Cisco.

TheShadow

More sauce for the goose

This site CCIE Hall of Fame - CCIE claims that as of August of 2011 Ciscos cert verification tool could only verify "Total on the list: 10,966 (includes active, inactive, and suspended).
All statistics are based upon actual verification with the Cisco CCIE/CCDE Verification Tool
Last Updated: 01-AUG-2011"

The question then becomes why so few are verifiable. There was the rumor that 12-18 months ago that Cisco killed a bunch of numbers. Cisco used to have a page with the number broken down by country but I don't remember where.

Edit: they dropped the page a year ago it seems but Brad Reese had this column back in May http://bradreese.com/blog/5-24-2011.htm putting the number between 16 and 17K

tearofs

So close to 50% of CCIE are inactive. Interesting.

NOC-Ninja

Yeah I just saw that today. 17k is low! I wonder how it went that low?
Did Cisco guru transfer to HP or Junipers or maybe everybody figured out that they can make money doing something else and its not worth it to go through all the trouble.

Turgon

DPG wrote: »

There are only around 17k CCIE's in the world and about a quarter of them work for Cisco.

There is a reason. With the right job at Cisco you get every encouragement and support to pass the track. Guys like us supporting live infrastructure in the field have a whole different set of problems on our hands each day. It was never designed for non Cisco interlopers such as ourselves. It is for Cisco SEs and Partners.

Turgon

A number of reasons. Firstly a lot of older CCIE's let their number expire as they move into more commercial roles. They stop configuring boxes. Also many CCIEs minted in the gold rush have been out of the industry completely for years. Layoffs 10 years ago. I also imagine some people were struck off after the lab cheating on v 3. Finally you are correct, some CCIEs have been working with other technologies for a while now, a trend that will continue. The CCIE R&S space is under threat, they are losing in SP (Juniper/Brocade), Voice (Avaya), Wireless hasn't taken off and they are miles off on Storage.

ipSpace

I think you guys are forgetting the main point of taking the CCIE.
The main purpose is to get the knowledge(and to test your knowledge) and not the number(at least that is why i am taking it).

If you get CCIE i think it would be much, much easier to take another Expert level exam for another vendor(like Juniper).

MPLS/QoS/Multicast is he same everywhere, it is just implemented with different commands. The goal is to get more knowledge not really to get a number(but a number is preferred of course)

nel

inSecure.ro wrote: »

I think you guys are forgetting the main point of taking the CCIE.
The main purpose is to get the knowledge(and to test your knowledge) and not the number(at least that is why i am taking it).

If you get CCIE i think it would be much, much easier to take another Expert level exam for another vendor(like Juniper).

MPLS/QoS/Multicast is he same everywhere, it is just implemented with different commands. The goal is to get more knowledge not really to get a number(but a number is preferred of course)

yeah, i have to agree with that. thats the way i see it, as much of the theory knowledge is transferable, you just have to know the other vendors way of doing it.

DPG

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Yeah I just saw that today. 17k is low! I wonder how it went that low?
Did Cisco guru transfer to HP or Junipers or maybe everybody figured out that they can make money doing something else and its not worth it to go through all the trouble.

First 2 Cisco Certified Architects (CCAr) jump to HP Networking - Brad Reese

Turgon

inSecure.ro wrote: »

I think you guys are forgetting the main point of taking the CCIE.
The main purpose is to get the knowledge(and to test your knowledge) and not the number(at least that is why i am taking it).

If you get CCIE i think it would be much, much easier to take another Expert level exam for another vendor(like Juniper).

MPLS/QoS/Multicast is he same everywhere, it is just implemented with different commands. The goal is to get more knowledge not really to get a number(but a number is preferred of course)

That would be correct. For me the CCIE is a vehicle to obtain networking knowledge. Beware of becoming a fanboy. The future belongs to vendor agnostic network professionals just like me.

ipSpace

Turgon wrote: »

That would be correct. For me the CCIE is a vehicle to obtain networking knowledge. Beware of becoming a fanboy. The future belongs to vendor agnostic network professionals just like me.

You are correct Turgon.
Last year i was a huge Cisco fan, i was a fanboy.
That changed with my current job, i started to like Fortigates more than i do ASAs.

As you point out: Keep an open mind.

Ahriakin

How many years now have we been hearing that the IE is dying (for various reasons)? I've lost count. But the fact remains we still can't hire them fast enough and I challenge you to find one that is involuntarily out of work

.
The level of networking skill usually typified by IEs has never exclusively been tied to that cert. Not having it does not mean an engineer hasn't got the right stuff, it's just that IEs are more likely to (beyond the cert itself by the time you have the inclination, motivation and resources to go for it you will already be moving ahead of your peers. Nobody goes for that exam who isn't absolutely dedicated to network engineering...and a little pain along the way). We have guys in our dept. who are not IEs, very talented and no discrimination is made for the lack of a number but it was a lot harder for them to get hired into this level than folks who had the IE behind them.
As for training drying up I think that's pretty obviously affected by the economy but also the amount of remote and automated training options now. The ability of training vendors to deliver richer more interactive training this way has majorly increased over the last few years also, it's no longer a choice between an interactive class and simply a collection of course books. More folks are willing to shell out for homestudy pre-recorded video-on-demand courses and bootcamps while less companies will pay for the usual 1-2 week long face-face courses. I don't think it can be taken as a litmus test on the health of this sector's IE addiction as it has it's own mitigating factors to deal with.
From where I'm sitting the market looks very strong.

cxzar20

I think a lot of this is, as previously mentioned, due to the influence of Cisco in general. However this is also due to the changing business environment. Tech careers are moving much further into a hybrid job requiring both business and technical knowledge. For instance, in my current position I was hired over a CCIE co-worker despite having a CCIP/CCNP in comparison because I also have an accounting and project management background. In order to stay competitive as the world changes you will need to have a skill set in multiple domains rather than just highly specialized in one. Your job will need to make money for the organization rather than just being a cost center.

JDMurray

Another personal experience CCIE blog article: Why Certify? I Haz Mad Skillz?

And a very good podcast too, BTW.

NOC-Ninja

DPG wrote: »

First 2 Cisco Certified Architects (CCAr) jump to HP Networking - Brad Reese

I saw that before. However, HP is not in a good spot right now after making all those mistakes. A lot of analyst actually think that HP will go down soon.

Turgon

Ahriakin wrote: »

How many years now have we been hearing that the IE is dying (for various reasons)? I've lost count. But the fact remains we still can't hire them fast enough and I challenge you to find one that is involuntarily out of work .

I can name a few, the ones that fail our technical interviews. That said, I agree that the need for skilled networkers is still strong, and having an IE doesn't hurt your chances of getting an interview.

cisco_trooper

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

I'm with ColbyG that most of the OG network guys and young guys figure out that they can make big bux without even having ccie. Just look at mrock. Also, I have a friend that makes more than 130k as a network architect for a biomedical company with ccna and mcse. However, he has 10yrs plus experience in networking. He doesn't want and need ccie to be making lots of money.

Agreed. At one time I did nothing but lab and lab and lab some more. On more than one occasion I had interviewers say, "My God, that is the best presentation of routing knowledge we have ever seen." I'm not a CCIE. I'm not even a CCNP. I stopped chasing certs when my paycheck broke $90K. It isn't about the certs, it is about the knowledge acquired in getting them.

Turgon

cisco_trooper wrote: »

Agreed. At one time I did nothing but lab and lab and lab some more. On more than one occasion I had interviewers say, "My God, that is the best presentation of routing knowledge we have ever seen." I'm not a CCIE. I'm not even a CCNP. I stopped chasing certs when my paycheck broke $90K. It isn't about the certs, it is about the knowledge acquired in getting them.

Exactly. That and having the opportunity to put all that learning into practice. This is why I advocate certification, to learn something about networking possibilities, but most importantly you should be pushing for opportunities to do something impressive in the field. Once you get those, focus on doing that and a little less on more practice labs. Time moves on, you want to look back on a legacy of accomplishments in the field. If you dont have them, find them. When you get the opportunity to obtain them, throw the kitchen sink at it in terms of hours and commitment. One is usually hired because of what you have done and done well, as opposed to what a certificate says you might be able to do. Some of the avid posters when I joined TE post much less these days as their responsibilities have escalated. They have learned that time on the job pays much better in the long run professionally than more time on the certs.

barquera

Nice Cisco article
Cisco may have finally turned the corner -- The Buzz - Sep. 13, 2011

CCIEWANNABE

This has been a great thread to follow. I agree with a lot of people that have posted and it is nice to see everyone's take on the CCIE. I would just like to add a few words in as well, as I have studied Cisco non-stop for over 4 years

I have attempted the CCIE R&S lab twice. The second time passing the troubleshooting but failing the configuration.

Am I finished with Cisco? No. Am I a little burnt out. Yes.

But I have taken away so much knowledge out of studying that it has been one of the best things I have ever done. I tell people about my story and they say, "Man you were so close! Why don't you go back?"

My answer to them is I will be back but my priorities have changed. I felt like for the past 4 years that I have been relying too much on a single vendor to land a Job. Now my priorities have changed, I no longer want to isolate my skills to one vendor. I want to expand my skill set to multiple vendors. This way I have more to bring to the table.

The fact of the matter is that having the CCIE is still a HUGE accomplishment. It really boils down to what you can do with the knowledge you have learned. If you **** your way through the CCIE you are fooling no one, because your foolishness will easily be exploited in the first minute of a Job Interview. Also, Even if you don't pass the CCIE and have all the knowledge of a CCIE without the #'s there is still alot you can do with that knowledge and it is up to you to put it to use.

Like Turgon and others have said, if you are working for a Cisco Partner or for Cisco as an RE or SE then it is a no brainer to go for it, especially if they are going to pay for the exam and possibly a raise.

My advice is that with today's competition try to differentiate yourself from others. Explore new horizons and gain knowledge in new areas. The best network engineers aren't just CCIE's, they are the engineers that never stop learning and are willing to explore new technologies.