The Hits Just Keep Coming!

So I always like to hear about conspiracy theories because usually they are so outlandish that it is funny. One group of people controlling the world, secret societies, etc. All good fun, but like most I figure these people are nuts or trying to make a buck by hawking tshirts, books, and dvds. But in the past couple of months I've really began to question how nuts these people are. It seems each day we get a new change to make life more difficult then it already is. I'll point to the following two articles that I read today:

1. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/business/banks-to-make-customers-pay-debit-card-fee.html

A fee to use your debit card? How is that legal? I allow you to use my money to make money and now you charge for the privilege. I've moved to using cash for everything (other then billpay, but I just put in my checking account information for that). I went to Walmart last week and the girl at the checkout counter didn't know how to ring in cash! Why did we bail these banks out again?

2. Congress May Permit Robot Calls To Cell Phones - Slashdot

Yup, after all the false emails and Facebook statuses it has finally come to pass (or at least being looked at). You can see how this is a huge scam that the cell phone companies are doing. Sell your phone number to debt collectors and telemarketers, then charge you when you go over your minutes. My house phone is on the do not call list and we get no less then 3 calls a day from telemarketers and pollsters. Can't wait till those calls go to my cell phone!

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hiddenknight821

the_Grinch wrote: »

So I always like to hear about conspiracy theories because usually they are so outlandish that it is funny. One group of people controlling the world, secret societies, etc. All good fun, but like most I figure these people are nuts or trying to make a buck by hawking tshirts, books, and dvds. But in the past couple of months I've really began to question how nuts these people are. It seems each day we get a new change to make life more difficult then it already is. I'll point to the following two articles that I read today:

1. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/business/banks-to-make-customers-pay-debit-card-fee.html

A fee to use your debit card? How is that legal? I allow you to use my money to make money and now you charge for the privilege. I've moved to using cash for everything (other then billpay, but I just put in my checking account information for that). I went to Walmart last week and the girl at the checkout counter didn't know how to ring in cash! Why did we bail these banks out again?

I just found out today, and I can't believe it either as I will be affected by this. You made a good point since it's really our money to begin with. Well, I can't complain about having a free checking account since I don't understand how it's being "free" help them earn profit in the first place when I am using their service. They said it's free as long as I am still receiving direct deposits to my account.

Looks like I would have to open up an account at a local credit union like everyone else here.

What really make me wonder is how this is gonna affect people who are just getting by paying bills, and most bills are paid using credit/debit cards. If we all decided to go old-school, then our social security (not SSN) will be compromised since this will give thieves more opportunity to rob us. Also, I don't think most banks have plenty of cashes like they used to, so there probably will not be enough for everyone if we all decided to go the old-fashion way. I know I may be a little over-dramatic here, but let's be aware of all the possibilities here.

the_Grinch

I agree, definitely need to look at all the possibilities. Fact of the matter for me is I hardly ever go to the bank besides to withdraw my cash for spending and gas once a month. They closed the branch in my town, so I have to go to the next town over to actually use the ATM (charge me $3 dollars to use a non-network ATM). Now I have a savings and checking account with ING and can go to WaWa (like 711) to get cash without being charged. Fact is I have 5 Wawas in my town and there is one in basically every town in Southern New Jersey. Very easy for me to switch fully to them, as I would only have to switch my paycheck and life insurance to the ING account. Very happy I had the foresight to use the bill pay on the various companies websites that I have bills for instead of setting it up through my checking account.

It really dings me that the squeeze goes to the customer. With people out of work and not getting by, how can you continue to expect them to fund your bloated salaries? I'm not talking about the branch employees, but all the corporate VPs and Chief Executives who have huge salaries many times that of the average worker in their company (and golden parachutes when things go wrong). These people are so out of touch with reality that it is almost hard to believe. The "let them eat cake" attitude will only go so far before people break. Should have listen to Arianna Huffington, maybe a year or so ago she was on Bill Maher telling people to take their money from large national banks and start using local banks. Local banks are the only ones that didn't get bailed out, made smart investments, and are actually loaning money to small businesses.

I recently watched a documentary on Andrew Jackson and all I could think was "man could we use him now!" Paid off the national debt, destroyed the Bank of the United States, and actually fought for the average citizen. Now I do not excuse the terrible things he did, so don't believe that I look past them, but if he was here now I do believe he'd regret those things. Also, I can't help, but think that we need a Citizen Kane in our corner. Great movie that I suggest everyone watch!

cyberguypr

See, I thought banks learned something from the whole mortgage fiasco. Boy was I wrong. The sad part is that many will bend over and take the charge just for the sake of convenience. If all of us took our accounts to credit unions or used cash, they would reverse their position faster than you can think of. Government thinks it can regulate without creating chaos elsewhere. The problem is we always end up suffering the aftermath.

I've been watching this closely and I'll be the first one in line to close my accounts @ Chase when the fee appears in my statement.

RobertKaucher

cyberguypr wrote: »

See, I thought banks learned something from the whole mortgage fiasco. Boy was I wrong. The sad part is that many will bend over and take the charge just for the sake of convenience. If all of us took our accounts to credit unions or used cash, they would reverse their position faster than you can think of. Government thinks it can regulate without creating chaos elsewhere. The problem is we always end up suffering the aftermath.

I've been watching this closely and I'll be the first one in line to close my accounts @ Chase when the fee appears in my statement.

They totally learned something. This trader will tell you exactly what they learned: BBC Speechless As Trader Alessio Rastani Tells Truth, Collapse Coming, Goldman Rules World - YouTube
That only the extremely rich matter. Do not fear the coming of strong AI, corporations are already SkyNet, and financial institutions are the worst kind. They are not living organisms but they are like highly intelligent machines capable of long-term strategic planning and optimized to make money. If that means destroying national, even world economies in the process, they will do it. If it means crashing markets so that they can redirect wealth from the working middle class to their executives and shareholders, they will do it.

gorebrush

I don't know how much I can post about this here, but if you look beyond the "mainstream" media, you will see that all is not rosy - and you will see things being reported that aren't in the mainstream...

I was always sceptical of conspiracy theories, but more and more over the past few months I am keeping my eyes open..

tpatt100

Not sure how it is "illegal" to charge a fee for using a debit card. Regulations are putting a cap banks can charge merchants that allow us to use debit cards. I know some places ask that you only debit over 10 dollars because of the exisiting fees so now banks want to push people to use credit cards which have no cap. The main issue is the banks losing a chance at bigger profits due to the cap so instead of charging the merchant they are charging the consumer for the service.

If anything I will just use cash which means I will probably avoid spotaneous purchases which seems like a win for me lol.

tpatt100

RobertKaucher wrote: »

They totally learned something. This trader will tell you exactly what they learned: BBC Speechless As Trader Alessio Rastani Tells Truth, Collapse Coming, Goldman Rules World - YouTube
That only the extremely rich matter. Do not fear the coming of strong AI, corporations are already SkyNet, and financial institutions are the worst kind. They are not living organisms but they are like highly intelligent machines capable of long-term strategic planning and optimized to make money. If that means destroying national, even world economies in the process, they will do it. If it means crashing markets so that they can redirect wealth from the working middle class to their executives and shareholders, they will do it.

I think that's already happened, if you look at wealth redistribution in America since Reagan up until now its waayyy to the top .01 percent of Americans.

Turgon

RobertKaucher wrote: »

They totally learned something. This trader will tell you exactly what they learned: BBC Speechless As Trader Alessio Rastani Tells Truth, Collapse Coming, Goldman Rules World - YouTube
That only the extremely rich matter. Do not fear the coming of strong AI, corporations are already SkyNet, and financial institutions are the worst kind. They are not living organisms but they are like highly intelligent machines capable of long-term strategic planning and optimized to make money. If that means destroying national, even world economies in the process, they will do it. If it means crashing markets so that they can redirect wealth from the working middle class to their executives and shareholders, they will do it.

There *are* cranks and conspiracy theorists. The problem is the stigma is a useful weapon for organisations and vested interests that would rather you didn't talk about things, much less think about them. So they are either reported unfairly on mainstream media to discredit them or simply ignored. We are about to see more and more bailouts of the banks. The bonuses will keep flowing. The cost of living will go up. The price of the bailout will be passed on directly or indirectly to ordinary people and their children. Hardwork is one factor in succeeding in life, but another is life changing all around you constantly and not always in a good way for your ongoing prosperity. Bill Hicks must have been turning in his grave the last 16 years while we got less addicted to protecting our reality, and more addicted to WoW.

Bl8ckr0uter

I am moving everything to a local credit union in a few weeks (although I use chase, I am tired of them and the credit union has better rates for savings accounts). I also think that the best "security" a person can have right now is: Food (stockpiling can goods, rice and the like), toiletries, guns and "survival supplies". It is going to get crazy out there and another thing that I am working on is my health (weight). Being healthy and eating right is a major way to take cash out of their pocket's (from fast food to medical insurance claims etc). I am also working on urban gardening and will probably buy up some land in my area to make that happen (if I get the money). One thing that I didn't say that I hope would be obvious is get out of debt. Period.

gorebrush

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

I am moving everything to a local credit union in a few weeks (although I use chase, I am tired of them and the credit union has better rates for savings accounts). I also think that the best "security" a person can have right now is: Food (stockpiling can goods, rice and the like), toiletries, guns and "survival supplies". It is going to get crazy out there and another thing that I am working on is my health (weight). Being healthy and eating right is a major way to take cash out of their pocket's (from fast food to medical insurance claims etc). I am also working on urban gardening and will probably buy up some land in my area to make that happen (if I get the money). One thing that I didn't say that I hope would be obvious is get out of debt. Period.

Exactly the kind of thing I've been reading a LOT of people doing.

I'm working on the debt thing. Currently me and my wife have 23 years left on the mortgage - we're going to try and get the lot repaid in 7-9 as we have enough spare cash every month to make some rather big overpayments.

MrRyte

gorebrush wrote: »

Exactly the kind of thing I've been reading a LOT of people doing.

I'm working on the debt thing. Currently me and my wife have 23 years left on the mortgage - we're going to try and get the lot repaid in 7-9 as we have enough spare cash every month to make some rather big overpayments.

My game plan as well. The only debt I want to have is mortgage (and even that won't be too big.) I'm strictly a cash and carry person now with only one credit/debit card for traveling.

gorebrush

Aside from one loan, and credit card balances that are paid in full, monthly, then that's pretty much how we roll too

blargoe

A lot of businesses don't accept personal checks any more, which pretty much leaves a card or cash as the only option. And most people will begrudgingly pay the monthly fee for the convenience of not having to carry around a giant wad of cash all the time.

Bl8ckr0uter

blargoe wrote: »

A lot of businesses don't accept personal checks any more, which pretty much leaves a card or cash as the only option. And most people will begrudgingly pay the monthly fee for the convenience of not having to carry around a giant wad of cash all the time.

They could use prepaid debit cards. At least if one is stolen, you know exactly how much can be taken.

RobertKaucher

tpatt100 wrote: »

I think that's already happened, if you look at wealth redistribution in America since Reagan up until now its waayyy to the top .01 percent of Americans.

You are correct. It's not new. My point was poorly expressed. What I am trying to say is that there is no need for there to be a conscious conspiracy for there to be the appearance of a conscious conspiracy. Large corporations have a collective culture and sort of natural selection opperates in the market that will kill company that is unfit. It's like the "drunkard's walk". Imagine a drunk man laying on the ground. To one side is a highway with many fast moving cars. On the other is a wall. He stands up and begins walking. He cannot go left because the wall is there (actual physical restrictions on what he is able to do) and if he goes right he will walk into traffic and be killed. So he stumbles forward. He does not have to have a conscious idea of where he is going for it to appear like he is going someplace. So you have these large financial institutions that have similar goals, strategies, and tactics because there are selective forces of the market (the wall and the road) that push them in similar directions.

demonfurbie

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

They could use prepaid debit cards. At least if one is stolen, you know exactly how much can be taken.

thats what i do i know upfront there is a $3 a month fee and i have a certain amount direct deposited on it every payday

still $3 a month is cheaper that the banks around here charge for a basic checking account

drkat

I bank with a local credit union - they're fantastic. They refund up to 5 foreign ATM fees a month, I have "shared branching" with other CU's in the area so I can walk in and deposit money or get free ATM withdrawals.

They're account is FREE for a year and then it's a $500 daily balance between both checking/savings or a loan. Otherwise it's $3 a month

Turgon

RobertKaucher wrote: »

You are correct. It's not new. My point was poorly expressed. What I am trying to say is that there is no need for there to be a conscious conspiracy for there to be the appearance of a conscious conspiracy. Large corporations have a collective culture and sort of natural selection opperates in the market that will kill company that is unfit. It's like the "drunkard's walk". Imagine a drunk man laying on the ground. To one side is a highway with many fast moving cars. On the other is a wall. He stands up and begins walking. He cannot go left because the wall is there (actual physical restrictions on what he is able to do) and if he goes right he will walk into traffic and be killed. So he stumbles forward. He does not have to have a conscious idea of where he is going for it to appear like he is going someplace. So you have these large financial institutions that have similar goals, strategies, and tactics because there are selective forces of the market (the wall and the road) that push them in similar directions.

But the market isn't killing. The banks continue to be kept afloat by printing more money. The bonuses will continue to be paid. The cost will be borne by the average person. They will be taxed to pay for it. They will lose their jobs. They will see the price of education for their children go out of control. They will see the cost of living rising. They will lose their homes. The Euro is about to be bailed out to 3 trillion. Who pays? Folks like you and me. For years. Your average person is so distracted by debts and work and WoW they dont get together and discuss things anymore to make a change. Even posts on youtube are interferred with when the people want to discuss the real problems. It is, after all, supposed to be your country, and your money. I will say no more before the thread gets locked. Let's study subnetting.