Do not fluff your resume (redux)

I've previously expounded on this subject before, but I feel the need to do so again.

I just finished a phone interview with an applicant. Now since it's a phone interview, we play nice, we don't get very technical until you're here in person. We make the questions relevant to what you say you know.

One line in particular caught my attention:

Extensive experience in BGP,MPLS,TCP/IP,IP Routing

The line caught my attention because it was bolded. Now, the resume was what we were given from the staffing company, so I'm not sure if he bolded it or they did, but regardless, it served it's purpose.

I asked five questions:

1. How do you save the configuration on virtually any Cisco IOS device?

2. What protocol does MPLS use for it's label distribution

3. I want to peer two routers via eBGP, but I want to peer with their loopbacks. What command do I need to ensure is present in the neighbor configuration

Now, for the IGP's, since he didn't list a specific protocol, I asked which he was most comfortable with. He said OSPF.

4. What command do I use to display the ospf neighbors

5. Explain how the DR/BDR election works

He got the first question right.

And nothing else.

The resume was very impressive looking. Otherwise, he never would have gotten the phone interview. It took 10 minutes to expose the fraud, and the only reason it took that long was because I wasn't being a dick and cut him off while he was busy trying to apologize for not knowing the answers.

Do not fluff your resume, folks. I know times are tough and folks want a job, and that drives them to desperate measures, but in the network game at least, any interviewer worth their salt is going to ask you questions about what you say you know. If a company actually does manage to fall for the fluff, you're probably going to be looking for a job again shortly, as the company is comprised of idiots and isn't likely to survive.

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Forsaken_GA

jamesleecoleman wrote: »

One thing that I've been told is that class experience counted as experience. I had people from work tell me this so I thought it would be alright to put basic windows and linux skills on the resume.

I don't care if someone puts class or lab experience on a resume, as long as they can back it up. Hell, when I go to interview, I take my diagrams and layouts of my home lab with me. Now, to be fair, my home lab is a fully functional enterprise network, which isn't common for most people. But due to NDA's and out of respect for operational security for former employers, I can't exactly bring in the diagrams and layouts of the work I've done in the past.

I accurately represent my knowledge *and* my experience on my resume. I don't put anything on there that I can't speak to in detail or at length.

It's very tempting when you're starting out to turn your resume into a creative writing exercise to make yourself look better than you really are. If you want to make yourself better than you are, you need to actually put in some work. I'm amazed at the number of folk who want to spend precious little of 'their' time learning skills that will help them in their job. Alot of what I do for fun, most people would want to be paid for. I don't do it just because I'm a big fat nerd, I do it also because it's an investment in myself.... I spend some time up front in order to get paid down the road.

With the availability of so many forms of unix, the availability of Microsoft Technet, and the cheapness of hardware, it has never been more affordable to acquire advanced skills, folks just need to make the commitment to actually *do* it. This is part of the reason that I'm so hard on folks that should have been English majors instead of IT professionals.

erpadmin

keenon wrote: »

your way too easy on them. i have created what my boss referred to the "Kobayashi Maru" its a lab with 10 tickets dealing with L2 and L3 technologies. I have had 1 person answer 1 of them correctly

So, if someone pulls a James T. Kirk, will you still hire them? [And I'm referring to the old-school Kirk, not the remade one, though both did the same thing...]

drkat

When i interviewed for my last position - I had an in-person interview that covered the basics udp vs tcp, osi, basic troubleshooting yada yada.. then it was ok, drive 1.5 hours to this other site on this date and they give you a lab sheet with a bunch of configuration items and some equipment and here ya go... make it work.. we'll decicde off that

thank god I got most of it to work

lol

Puffy

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

This is part of the reason that I'm so hard on folks that should have been English majors instead of IT professionals.

I have a lecturer who actually tell people that IT probably isn't the best career choice for them and I quote "nursing might be a bit more suitable."

keenon

erpadmin wrote: »

So, if someone pulls a James T. Kirk, will you still hire them? [And I'm referring to the old-school Kirk, not the remade one, though both did the same thing...]

LOL, well if they are smart enough to do it I may give them a shot

but means there is a mole in our mists. which means its either my co-worker or my boss.

SteveO86

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Now, to be fair, my home lab is a fully functional enterprise network, which isn't common for most people.

I'm just curious now, what do you have in your lab?

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

But due to NDA's and out of respect for operational security for former employers, I can't exactly bring in the diagrams and layouts of the work I've done in the past.

I had someone come in for an interview once, show off his "work" from his current employer with every page watermarked confidential, and he provided diagrams/configs. I really didn't believe he thought he would get job after showing off that kind of material.

kremit

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

I've previously expounded on this subject before, but I feel the need to do so again.

I just finished a phone interview with an applicant. Now since it's a phone interview, we play nice, we don't get very technical until you're here in person. We make the questions relevant to what you say you know.

One line in particular caught my attention:

Extensive experience in BGP,MPLS,TCP/IP,IP Routing

The line caught my attention because it was bolded. Now, the resume was what we were given from the staffing company, so I'm not sure if he bolded it or they did, but regardless, it served it's purpose.

I asked five questions:

1. How do you save the configuration on virtually any Cisco IOS device?

2. What protocol does MPLS use for it's label distribution

3. I want to peer two routers via eBGP, but I want to peer with their loopbacks. What command do I need to ensure is present in the neighbor configuration

Now, for the IGP's, since he didn't list a specific protocol, I asked which he was most comfortable with. He said OSPF.

4. What command do I use to display the ospf neighbors

5. Explain how the DR/BDR election works

He got the first question right.

And nothing else.

Aw. That's no bueno. I had to see if I could answer the questions, because im adding information from what I learned in college. 1 is a freebee. 2 no idea how to approach that. 3 The same as making a loopback in wanting it to be the router ID? 4 sh ip ospf nei 5 Whoever has the highest priority and then to the RID if need be.

I couldn't really answer 2.) due to both the college class I took and this lammle book really doesn't cover extensively. I wonder if it's one of those "this is not apart of the CCNA goal" deals.

This is a really good thread. Being Georgia, you aren't Dell secureworks by chance, are you?

bermovick

3 needs the ebgp multi-hop command.

Maybe I need to stop selling myself short - I knew all of these except the MPLS question (and I don't list MPLS on my resume).

Forsaken_GA

SteveO86 wrote: »

I'm just curious now, what do you have in your lab?

It's almost all virtualized, but I've installed and maintain servers you'd expect to find in your typical enterprise. Application servers, database servers, web servers, file servers, etc, all with proper redundancy and disaster recovery options. Haven't quite finished integrating Exchange on the backend, right now, still direct IMAP for the mailboxen.

I had someone come in for an interview once, show off his "work" from his current employer with every page watermarked confidential, and he provided diagrams/configs. I really didn't believe he thought he would get job after showing off that kind of material.

Yup. If someone is willing to do it to one employer, they'll do it to you, all they're saying is 'STAY AWAY!'

Forsaken_GA

kremit wrote: »

1 is a freebee.

You'd actually be surprised. There is a reason that's one of the first questions we ask (or the Juniper equivalent if they list Juniper experience) for a reason. There are many who cannot answer it.

This is a really good thread. Being Georgia, you aren't Dell secureworks by chance, are you?

Used to be, they were a previous employer, though when I joined the company, they didn't have Dell in front of the name.

Roguetadhg

Damn. Forsaken, I wish I could move closer to Atlanta... the big city!

We need to get through the HR goon squad though. Entry applicants can't really get past them without looking somewhat shiny and out of the ordinary.

But fluffing the resume like that.... good luck with that

For myself, I'd have to claim "CCNA" but I don't have related work experience. $:\$

Forsaken_GA

Roguetadhg wrote: »

Damn. Forsaken, I wish I could move closer to Atlanta... the big city!

We need to get through the HR goon squad though. Entry applicants can't really get past them without looking somewhat shiny and out of the ordinary.

If you make the assumption that everything has to go through HR, this is true. That's hardly the only recourse, however, this is why it's good to make friends. Right now, my team has an opening due to an exit, and our headcount will likely be expanded by a couple more in the 2nd quarter. If I knew of qualified candidates, there would be no need to get past the HR goons, I would walk the resume into my bosses office and put it on his desk (he has actively solicited us for candidates). To be fair, getting past the HR goons is probably a hell of alot easier than getting past me, if you don't know your stuff.

No matter what else a person does to try and get a job, the most effective way is to meet people and make acquaintances and leave a favorable impression. Who you know is still very, very important.

shodown

Damn we were open to moving not to long ago. While I don't have recent experience in SP networks, I'm sure if I was seriously intrested it wouldn't be a big deal for me to spend 90 days brushing. Good to be on TE to get a feel of what people are looking for.

Zartanasaurus

I've been thinking about moving to Atlanta since it's not too far away, but it seems like half the jobs there want voice experience. Definitely going to move somewhere else for my next job, since I'm pretty much maxed out where I am.

kremit

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

You'd actually be surprised. There is a reason that's one of the first questions we ask (or the Juniper equivalent if they list Juniper experience) for a reason. There are many who cannot answer it.

Used to be, they were a previous employer, though when I joined the company, they didn't have Dell in front of the name.

Seriously? That is Cisco 101. Forget password recovery! lol I took a shot in the dark with secureworks and your location. They have some pretty big clients.

NOC-Ninja

1. How do you save the configuration on virtually any Cisco IOS device?
wr

2. What protocol does MPLS use for it's label distribution
LDP

3. I want to peer two routers via eBGP, but I want to peer with their loopbacks.
What command do I need to ensure is present in the neighbor configuration

router bgp (asn)
neighbor (ip) ebgp-multihop (ttl)

4. What command do I use to display the ospf neighbors
sh ip os neigh

5. Explain how the DR/BDR election works

Here's what I understand

R1

R3

R1 - router id 10.10.10.8
R2 - router id 10.10.10.2
R3 - router id 10.10.10.3

i. R1 (RID 8.8.8.8 ) sends hello to R2 (RID 2.2.2.2) and R3 (RID 3.3.3.3).
ii. R2 and R3 discovers/ (sees R1’s RID) R1 as its neighbor.
iii. R1 discovers/ (sees R2 and R3 RID’s) R2 and R3 as its neighbors.
iv. R1 becomes DR since it has the highest RID (router ID 8.8.8.8 )
v. R3 becomes BDR (back up designated router) since it has the second highest RID)
vi. R2 becomes a DROTHER

Now you can influence the DR by using "ip ospf priority (0-255)". The DR will be the highest number.

Those are good questions. Too bad Im only looking for a california based work.

Xcluziv

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

That depends, you willing to relocate to the Atlanta metro area? hehe

I can relocate...oh wait......only if I knew things outside of the OSI and TCP/IP...ah well, development it is...lol

joshmadakor

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Those are good questions. Too bad Im only looking for a california based work.

Like a boss

Edit: This is a really good/interesting thread

zenhound

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

No matter what else a person does to try and get a job, the most effective way is to meet people and make acquaintances and leave a favorable impression. Who you know is still very, very important.

I always hear this and wish I knew how to do it. I guess I need to join professional organizations and all of that. To me putting in that kind of effort is far more difficult than putting in the effort to teach myself tech skills. I have friends who frequently go to networking events and it just doesn't sound like my scene at all. And the location I work out of is super light on tech people, so there's not much potential within the organization. Frustrating.

To keep it on topic, I think there are a lot of situations where fluffing your resume doesn't hurt you. Obviously there are or people would stop doing it. I think "getting past HR" is a huge reason to do it, especially if HR is as ridiculous as ours is. They'll put requirements of 3 and 4 years for what is essentially entry level desktop support and require documented experience with a specific application, and if it's not there they bounce you. So I can definitely see why you might just include things you don't have just to get past the initial screening (though I've not done it, and supposedly if you are caught doing that you are sort of blackballed).

N2IT

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Who you know is still very, very important.

I think it's still the most important thing, as for as getting a job.

CodeBlox

N2IT wrote: »

I think it's still the most important thing, as for as getting a job.

Very true. There's a guy who works on the helpdesk with me who "knows someone in the NOC" and said he'd speak to him about me possibly going over there. Well, today he finally told me that they "have no openings". Another guy who also works on the helpdesk also knows someone who knows someone who works in the NOC and he had his person talk to them. Do you know what they told him? There are openings and to apply... Who you know does matter a lot. I was pretty upset when I heard that. Man, it kinda ruined my day. Oh well, hopefully I can find something off of this contract very soon.

blargoe

I have been interviewing people for our service desk this week. We had one guy who put on their resume that they had advanced networking skills and had worked with routers and switches. He was not able to articulate the difference between a router and a switch, or even communicate the purpose of a switch or a router... and his "good troubleshooting skills" consisted of google and asking a server admin.

If you don't know it, don't put it on your resume.

CodeBlox

lol, just curios. What kind of responses did he give to your questions about routers and switches?

Syntax

I think it's acceptable to "study up" on things you have put in your resume... I've done things in the past that I currently don't do now (or rarely do)... And I would say many things (not all but many) in the networking world are "use or lose" knowledge. At least have the foresight to do that and it should get your further during the technical interview process. People who list these skills they have and go into the technical interview unprepared are destined for failure.

70P6BV8

Hello,
I am new to this sight but am not new to the IT/Computer field. I have found myself having to go back and read some programming stuff just to renew my knowledge. I have been out of the "hands-on" for over a year and am still looking for work. I feel that if you are going to say what you have on your resume, then mean what you say. I tell the people that interview me that it has been a year since I have had my hands on IT work but that I continue to read and keep myself up to date on technology.
I am attempting to take my A+ and Network+ within a month so I can have these 2 under my belt. I am not a spring chicken and am having to really bear down on reading and testing.
Just my 2 cents worth.

N2IT

@BLARGOE

Sounds like he copied someones resume and tried to pass it off as his own. CLOWN!

BTW We need a clown emoticon.

MAC_Addy

N2IT wrote: »

BTW We need a clown emoticon.

I 2nd this vote.

MAC_Addy

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

I don't care if someone puts class or lab experience on a resume, as long as they can back it up. Hell, when I go to interview, I take my diagrams and layouts of my home lab with me. Now, to be fair, my home lab is a fully functional enterprise network, which isn't common for most people. But due to NDA's and out of respect for operational security for former employers, I can't exactly bring in the diagrams and layouts of the work I've done in the past.

I accurately represent my knowledge *and* my experience on my resume. I don't put anything on there that I can't speak to in detail or at length.

It's very tempting when you're starting out to turn your resume into a creative writing exercise to make yourself look better than you really are. If you want to make yourself better than you are, you need to actually put in some work. I'm amazed at the number of folk who want to spend precious little of 'their' time learning skills that will help them in their job. Alot of what I do for fun, most people would want to be paid for. I don't do it just because I'm a big fat nerd, I do it also because it's an investment in myself.... I spend some time up front in order to get paid down the road.

With the availability of so many forms of unix, the availability of Microsoft Technet, and the cheapness of hardware, it has never been more affordable to acquire advanced skills, folks just need to make the commitment to actually *do* it. This is part of the reason that I'm so hard on folks that should have been English majors instead of IT professionals.

I do exactly the same, and the one time that I didn't take my diagram they actually wanted to see it - other times people just looked at it and they INTERVIEWER didn't actually know what it was about... Good thing about that interview where I didn't take my diagram is that there was a whiteboard behind me, I kindly asked if I could use a pen to draw out what I had and how it was setup. Though, this didn't lead me to a NOC job, this did lead me to an IT manager position - I proved my skills on network design and able to draw/document network designs is probably what put me ahead. The person that interviewed me for the job had never seen anyone actually willing to draw out anything on a whiteboard, he was very impressed.

Now, getting on to the subject of people 'spicing' up their resume when they haven't had much or any real world experience. Now, if you're just starting out your resume isn't going to look very impressive. But, you can make it look appealing when you put that they're currently in school, or if you're studying on a specific certification. I know a lot of people would frown upon people listing "currently studying" but when I read through resumes and people don't much experience - their currently studying field helps them stay in the pile and possibly even a phone interview.

Even though I have over 10 years experience, certifications and I'm still studying, I will continue to list my next certification goal to show that I'm eager to learn. I'm very passionate about what I do and I bring a lot of knowledge to an interview. I think a lot of people want to skip the helpdesk stuff and go straight into a Systems Administrator role, I know this because I wanted to do the same, it doesn't work that way so please do not lie or "fluff" up your resume.

I interviewed someone for a basic network technician position. They had CCNP listed on their resume, but not CCNA. I thought to myself, "OK, perhaps he listed CCNP since it's higher than CCNA he wouldn't list it", boy was I wrong. We had setup a phone interview, me and HR. I asked him basic questions on cabling and troubleshooting, he said that he had never made a cross-over cable and has never needed to, he also couldn't answer a question about what cable you needed to connect from a switch to a switch - though, to give him credit that a lot of newer switches will work with a regular straight-through cable I kinda let him off the hook... I then asked him (since he's a 'CCNP') if he knew how to configure router on a stick... he said that he'd never heard of it. I then proceeded to ask him when he got his CCNP, how long did he study and which route did he take? He said that he studied for about 4 weeks and took the exam at his local college. I asked him, which exam did you take first? He replied, the CCNP? I also asked if he had any other Cisco certifications, he said "no, I went straight for CCNP". I then didn't want to continue to any further and put his resume in the shredder.

CodeBlox

hahaha, man, I can answer all of that stuff! As you said with the newer switches, they can use either as I believe Auto MDIX kicks in. My 2950s do not support auto mdix so it's required that I use crossover cables that I have made

Went to lowes and bought a few hundred feet of cable and a crimper tool just to practice making cables.

bigdogz

MAC_Addy wrote: »

... I then asked him (since he's a 'CCNP') if he knew how to configure router on a stick... he said that he'd never heard of it. I then proceeded to ask him when he got his CCNP, how long did he study and which route did he take? He said that he studied for about 4 weeks and took the exam at his local college. I asked him, which exam did you take first? He replied, the CCNP? I also asked if he had any other Cisco certifications, he said "no, I went straight for CCNP". I then didn't want to continue to any further and put his resume in the shredder.

router on a stick... Can I have sprinkles?

I work for a MISP/Telco and we have to use this term from time to time. We then have to explain it to most customers which is not a big deal. I can understand your frustration. I know of a friend that is going for his CCDA without going for his CCNA. If he has a cabling question I will not help him.