Realistically how hard is CCNP if you are not working in Networking?

As the title says I'm working in IT right now, (Data Center Technician) but not networking. I have a CCNA and I'm trying to find a networking job, but it has proven difficult. I want to keep learning though so I don't forget stuff, but I here the CCNP is pretty hard to pass if you don't work with networks everyday.

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Daniel333

Jackace wrote: »

As the title says I'm working in IT right now, (Data Center Technician) but not networking. I have a CCNA and I'm trying to find a networking job, but it has proven difficult. I want to keep learning though so I don't forget stuff, but I here the CCNP is pretty hard to pass if you don't work with networks everyday.

Took me over a year to earn the CCNP: routing and switching with mild networking in my work. So I would say.. hard. I recommend earning a couple CCNA level certs first.

Jackace

Daniel333 wrote: »

Took me over a year to earn the CCNP: routing and switching with mild networking in my work. So I would say.. hard. I recommend earning a couple CCNA level certs first.

so something like CCNA: Security would be a better option?

NetworkVeteran

Jackace wrote: »

so something like CCNA: Security would be a better option?

Yes, and arguably much more valuable to an entry-level candidate.

mattau

I've never worked in a networking position. I did my CCNA and its impossible to find a networking job straight up. So I decided to start CCNP and look for a level 1 helpdesk job and crawl my way up somehow. I am a believer in if you keep studying then eventually something will come up. vs being stagnant and waiting for something with your current credentials.

Previously I had no other knowledge of anything computers so I am about as rookie as it gets starting from scratch.

I have heard many people doing it in a year or even less, but for my own journey so far..

I passed the ccnp route exam recently and I spent bout 11months studying for just that one exam whilst working full time aswell.

I am expecting around 2 years to finish the whole thing. From where I am now even just beginning switch, I realise ( in a good way ) that CCNA is nothing compared to what you learn in CCNP. You actually learn how stuff works and am really glad I am doing the NP now.

As for the quote - ccnp is too hard to pass if you dont work on networks for your job. Id so no way that is not true at all. Sure it would be easier but if you go through the material and are prepared nothing is too hard. It's just hard in the fact it takes alot of commitment and personal time to dedicate to passing it. ( and most people dont understand why you spend every day studying it - ugh )

kmcintosh78

Impossible???No.
Extremely hard? Yes.
Unless you have the funds to set up an up to date home lab, virtual labs are limited.
But, remember, the Cisco test is passed daily by those that have the ability to memorize books.
But it can be done.

SuppahMario

I agree with all of what the person above me said.
It's not impossible but it would be really hard to do. Imagine learning how to do surgery without ever being a doctor first. Certs are good when combined with experience but you'd be better off trying to get a lower level job (look for a small company or a start up) where you can put in the time and experience and show them you can grown and learn in the position and soon enough you'll get to working on the big stuff.

djfunz

I decided to not pursue the CCNP at all until I start working in a Networking position. It'll look a bit silly in my opinion to gain such an advanced cert without any practical experience. CCNA is entry level and for that reason I decided to attain it without a Networking job first. Plus you're much more likely to find a NOC position with a CCNA than without it.

Regarding forgetting all the learned material, that's what reading other sources and labs are for. I'm currently reading Network Warrior and find it to be a great refresher. Also, practice configuration using GNS3.

Daniel333

I don't know too many people who start in networking. For the most part every one I know who networks professionally started as a Server admin and sorta slowly branched into it.

There are few companies that want just a networking guy, or server guy or desktop guy anymore.

Today alone I did the following
1) grabbed jboss threads for a ecom server and worked with a dev team to get them grab the exceptions
2) Developer a user interface for a monitoring application
3) Wrote a Powershell script to manage wireshark and capture failing AD events for a forest trust
4) Helped with an Exchange migration/design
5) Installed disks in a SAN
6) troubleshoot a CentOS server that wouldn't boot
7) Setup vlans on a Cisco switch to trunk to ESX.

Worked on a monitoring plan for a Telephony system
9) Conducted an interview
10) Wrote a SQL backup job

Nothing in there makes me a networking guy.. or a desktop guy or a server guy. It's all sorta one in the same once you get over the hurdles.

When you are just starting out round your skills out. Because you can't force yourself in. You have to adapt and go with the flow of where the market takes you.

I still think the winning entry level combo is this
Strong Microsoft Office skills, MCSA: Security, CCNA: Security, Linux+
Toss in some scripting language experience (perl, bash or powershell)

Do your time in a helpdesk, move to a NOC, then snag your admin spot inside a year. from there you can start to control your fate.

Danielh22185

I am in the same boat as you are bud. Currently I work in help desk and am trying to get my start in networking too. I have found it extremely difficult to find a job in the field too. I also have a CCNA but I am not stopping there. I would implore you to keep going. The more certs you can achieve the easier it may be to get your start and climb the latter at a quick pace. If you end up getting a CCNP and then later on get the job I would think you could move up a lot faster considering your experience obtained just by studying for the cert. I believe CCNP is on a level where you cant just study text and pass the test, you have to have real world experience and that can be done without the job too. Yes, I believe it would be easier to pass the test if you are working in the industry along with your studies but I would never claim it as unobtainable. I think the only limitations we have are ourselves, if you want it bad enough you will find a way to achieve it.

MrBishop

Jackace wrote: »

As the title says I'm working in IT right now, (Data Center Technician) but not networking. I have a CCNA and I'm trying to find a networking job, but it has proven difficult. I want to keep learning though so I don't forget stuff, but I here the CCNP is pretty hard to pass if you don't work with networks everyday.

If you're looking to for to work in a data center, they usually look for people with CCNP and/or CCDA/CCDP so you can go either route. In my journey towards my CCNP I had gone through the Cisco academy years ago and only went for my CCNA even though I've taken the BSCI course also. Now, I've dedicated myself to get my CCNP and will reach that goal in a few weeks. I would suggest that if you want to go for your CCNP, you get INE's CCNP training material and setup a virtual lab to practice along with your studies. Best of luck!

NetworkVeteran

Daniel333 wrote: »

I don't know too many people who start in networking. For the most part every one I know who networks professionally started as a Server admin and sorta slowly branched into it.

Most people I know in a high-level networking positions started directly in networking in some fashion. More precisely, about 85% of them never admin'd server or workstations.

There are few companies that want just a networking guy, or server guy or desktop guy anymore.

In any major metropolitan area you will find hundreds, sometimes thousands of places clamoring for network guys. Only the smallest of companies need a jack-of-all-trades. As the teams who support the infrastructure expand past a few people, you begin to want networking specialists and server specialists. As the teams expand further you begin to want specialists in various domains of networking such as voice, security, or routing protocols. The number of companies who can support an expert-level specialist is somewhat smaller, but the demand outstrips the supply by a wide enough margin that the pay for expert-level networking professionals who can understand business demands is very high.

This week I worked on large-scale BGP and IPSec issues. Can't remember using a server, except that I suppose someone I've never met in IT helped to ensure my Outlook was running smoothly.

I'm a network guy through and through.

I still think the winning entry level combo is this
Strong Microsoft Office skills, MCSA: Security, CCNA: Security, Linux+
Toss in some scripting language experience (perl, bash or powershell)

My pick would be: CS/EE + CCNA. Start with a good salary and avoid those helpdesks.

waragi

Ccnp does include a tshoot exam , how many certifications include a trouble shooting portion? , which implies one has to be able to go past just memorizing the book and practically analyse a problem and fix it which means the end result is someone who can be of use from day one in any network.
The starting point to these end certification would seem irrelevant .
The amount of resources free and paid to help ccna/ccnp newbies is staggering , I believe that anybody with the motivation can become a ccnp , the howtonetwork.net site proves this.
A shoe salesman and a Bobby make for a excellent site and the pass rate proves the content .
Time to stop now before my rambling consumes another 10 lines.

Jackace

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

My pick would be: CS/EE + CCNA. Start with a good salary and avoid those helpdesks.

I wish I could have done that, but sadly it is becoming harder and harder to do it. Most companies seem to want there people to spend at least a couple years in helpdesk or NOC unless you already have experience.

Thank you all for your insights. I wish I could avoid the desktop support and help desk stuff, but sadly I'm right in the thick of it and want out asap. I passed the CCNA recently and just want to do what I can to land a job in networking. I will probably move on to the CCNA:Security first because it doesn't sound like it will take as long to get, and then I will work on my CCNP.

VAHokie56

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

Most people I know in a high-level networking positions started directly in networking in some fashion. More precisely, about 85% of them never admin'd server or workstations.

In any major metropolitan area you will find hundreds, sometimes thousands of places clamoring for network guys. Only the smallest of companies need a jack-of-all-trades. As the teams who support the infrastructure expand past a few people, you begin to want networking specialists and server specialists. As the teams expand further you begin to want specialists in various domains of networking such as voice, security, or routing protocols. The number of companies who can support an expert-level specialist is somewhat smaller, but the demand outstrips the supply by a wide enough margin that the pay for expert-level networking professionals who can understand business demands is very high.

This week I worked on large-scale BGP and IPSec issues. Can't remember using a server, except that I suppose someone I've never met in IT helped to ensure my Outlook was running smoothly.

I'm a network guy through and through.

My pick would be: CS/EE + CCNA. Start with a good salary and avoid those helpdesks.

I agree with vet. Both companies I have worked for have had at least 4 dedicated network guys at all times. I never really touched a server ether while getting into networking...I went desktop support --> network team

Jackace

VAHokie56 wrote: »

I agree with vet. Both companies I have worked for have had at least 4 dedicated network guys at all times. I never really touched a server ether while getting into networking...I went desktop support --> network team

This is the route I am hoping to take. I'm in desktop support now and hoping the next jump is into networking.

mboogie

That will be your best decision. I am network administrator and the most I do with servers is to make sure I ping them. If you desire to go the networking route just keep on your studies and keep open ears for that networking position.

kmcintosh78

I second the responses about a separation of areas.
In the Small business world, I can see where a single person can be managing all aspects. But, once outside that scope, they are defined positions.
I will never have to touch a Server. Where I work, I am the Network Engineer. I will start managing the Firewalls, but will only make changes once the security guys request it, unless it is a break/fix.

Mstavridis

Blah small business world is annoying (I am in it right now) I manage the network, but I still need to cover the gaps of the windows admin with users computer break/fixes, password resets and stuff. The owner is always asking why isn't this or that project done. I want to tell him off, but what can you do.