Is NET+/CCNA cert still sought after in the field?

Hey Techs,

I work with a school (mentioned on this forum before) that teaches IT profs that lack a bit of knowledge and certification in NET+ and CCNA and then provides the exams as well for free. I don't want to push too deep into it (unless Mods say it's OK to do), but I work alongside many of the instructors as we train, teach and go hands on with everything the students need to know to successfully pass the NET+ & CCNA, and start a great career in the field.

While we also then place those individuals in quality positions after, and have been successful, my question to you guys is:

Is NET+/CCNA certs enough these days? Or should I be pushing the org to provide even more training and education for a different cert.

Sec+ has been offered sparingly, but I want to make sure that the people we help and train have an even better chance of employment with the most sought after cert that's currently available.

Apologies if this isn't the right forum to ask and I greatly appreciate your help!

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Comments

networker050184

Enough for what? What point in their career are the students?

I'd probably drop the N+ if they are already getting the CCNA out of it. Seems like a waste to me.

ClabPS

I suppose the sort of job that they're normally placed in are mid-level positions. Data Center Tech, Network Eng. Desktop Eng, etc.

Their career paths vary as well. The courses are free because they're unemployed, so some of them have been out of the IT field for over 5-10 years, and others are still kind of new, but steadily working 3 years in jobs along the lines of IT support.

I imagine dropping N+ would be good, but I've seen far too many come in with the years of working experience but lacking N+ knowledge.

This is where the tricky part comes from me: I can possibly convince the org to move away from N+, and add another cert on top of the CCNA, but the numbers show that the people we service tend to do better with the NET+ (in terms of scores on CCNA and career placement afterward)

In the end, we'll have people who have been working in the field that's been let go because of the lack of certs and they take advantage of the program and are grateful for it, so that's good. But I want to ensure that we're constantly moving forward alongside the industry.

networker050184

If most already have some experience in IT CCNA and Sec+ seem like the better combo to me. Maybe some MS stuff as well, but I'm not the best to speak towards that side of the house cert wise.

ClabPS

Really appreciate your input though! Thank you!

Codeman6669

Keep the N+
some people want a field change, and sometimes the CCNA scares off people because well... probably subnetting lol
But if you dont have much IT expereince and you want to start getting there i think the N+ is the way to do it. Its completely obtainable with some good studying, but its only entry level. Should be used to see who grasps the concepts and who does not. The ones that succeed in the N+ should go to CCNA.

Perhaps use the certs for gauging. N+ for entry level, or limited experience. CCNA for those who have some experience IMO

Jon_Cisco

From your description I would say Net+ is better for the audience. However if you are having success then I would talk with the companies your placing with. They would be able to tell you where your candidates are lacking if you give them opportunity to do so.

ClabPS

Codeman6669 wrote: »

Keep the N+
some people want a field change, and sometimes the CCNA scares off people because well... probably subnetting lol
But if you dont have much IT expereince and you want to start getting there i think the N+ is the way to do it. Its completely obtainable with some good studying, but its only entry level. Should be used to see who grasps the concepts and who does not. The ones that succeed in the N+ should go to CCNA.

Perhaps use the certs for gauging. N+ for entry level, or limited experience. CCNA for those who have some experience IMO

Hi Codeman,

Thanks for the response!

A bit of back story, we have a couple of tracks that people can choose to study in:

An A+/NET+ course for people who have little to no experience (the one that many people who want to start a career in tech opt for)

A Software Testing (for the QA, Dev and Software Analyst seekers)

And of course the NET+/CCNA

One thing we do have in place in particular for the N+/CCNA course is that if someone doesn't pass the N+, they can't continue on in the class to learn/prepare/take the CCNA which is pretty much what you have in mind and makes sense. After they graduate and we're able to get them viable employment, they're able to come back for alumni services to learn more courses depending on whats available.

I suppose the real issue isn't that we're having hard time placing them, but rather ensuring that we're keeping on the right track in terms of what will be more sought after in the future from these same employers, or even new ones that we work with.

Jon_Cisco wrote: »

From your description I would say Net+ is better for the audience. However if you are having success then I would talk with the companies your placing with. They would be able to tell you where your candidates are lacking if you give them opportunity to do so.

Yea the NET+ is a great way to gauge how people who either have been out of work for some time, or have years of experience, but not truly relevant to what the course demands, manage.

I think I'll set up a meeting with the Job Dev Team and discuss if they've had these conversations with the partners to see what they're future demands look like.

What might be the biggest problem is that we're providing everything free of charge and aiming to help people in underserved communities find great employment in a great field. Admittedly, a lot of these people won't be savvy right off the bat so having those entry level training/certs is necessary to help a wider range of folks, but there are many gems who latch on to the technology right away and can excel quickly. NYC is a large place so finding them can be a bit tricky, but when we do, I want to make sure I'm giving them the best opportunity possible to succeed.

Again, thanks so much for the insight and responding to my queries everyone - truly appreciate it!

NetworkNewb

Sorry CompTIA but I don't think the Network+ is even worth anyone's time. From someone who has recently taken the Network+ and CCENT, the CCENT will help you understand networks ALOT more. I can't imagine even someone having an entry level networking position with just the Network+. It just doesn't go very deep into how a network actually works. Where the CCENT does. There is also a lot of overlap between the tests, the CCENT just goes deeper while still going over the very basics as well.

ClabPS

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Sorry CompTIA but I don't think the Network+ is even worth anyone's time. From someone who has recently taken the Network+ and CCENT, the CCENT will help you understand networks ALOT more. I can't imagine even someone having an entry level networking position with just the Network+. It just doesn't go very deep into how a network actually works. Where the CCENT does. There is also a lot of overlap between the tests, the CCENT just goes deeper while still going over the very basics as well.

Hi NetworkNewb,

I think the CCENT is great in what it offers, but we're providing the Net+/CCNA because of the range from entry-mid tier positions. With the program structured the way it is, I think it works better to see people who are able to grasp NET+, work with pre-CCNA training and then move onto the CCNA training/cert exam.

Ideally, we would try and do NET, CCENT, CCNA and so forth, but that would go beyond funding and time unfortunately (and might end up being redundant along the way - but funding might be based on certain requirements)

To be perfectly fair, the rate of success with individuals going through the current program of NEt+/CCNA has been tremendously high with great starting positions, so as such it hasn't proved to be a problem.

I think sometime in the next couple of months I'm gonna see if I can host an event relating to the program and Cisco and general and invite Cisco professionals/enthusiasts so we can have a cool in person convo about the tech and the best ways it can be introduced to people who are interested, but lack the resources to learn it.

Grateful for your input Net, I'm actually going to ponder that over with one of my coworkers to see how much of a shift would it be if we included CCENT in there somewhere. Outside of alumni services of course.

crazboy84

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Sorry CompTIA but I don't think the Network+ is even worth anyone's time. From someone who has recently taken the Network+ and CCENT, the CCENT will help you understand networks ALOT more. I can't imagine even someone having an entry level networking position with just the Network+. It just doesn't go very deep into how a network actually works. Where the CCENT does. There is also a lot of overlap between the tests, the CCENT just goes deeper while still going over the very basics as well.

Really i dont see why you wouldnt offer the CCENT. Taking the combined test is much, much harder than the split test. I took the combined test because my proffessor told me it was easier to take 1 test than 2 and he was wrong i failed. Im taking ICND1 next week and i feel 10 times more confident than i did last time.

techfiend

I'd start in the middle, on CCENT, and if it's too difficult to grasp step back to N+.

ClabPS

techfiend wrote: »

I'd start in the middle, on CCENT, and if it's too difficult to grasp step back to N+.

Hrm...a method of gauging and dropping back to the earlier course. Seems feasible. Wonder if some of the funders would go for that, but ideally it would allow individuals to at least obtain training, certs and job placement even if not at the higher end of what we currently offer.

Good stuff and really appreciative!

networker050184

I just don't see what return you are providing the student giving them a N+ and CCNA. Once they have the CCNA that N+ is irrelevant. If they need to learn the fundamentals then teach them that but seems like a waste of everyone's time and money to bother with the actual certification. The goal is to get a job right? N+ isn't really going to help with that in my opinion.

ClabPS

Hey Networker-

Sorry for the late reply (bit of vaca time on my end)

That's the thing - I suppose we're always looking for the best way to train individuals and get them placed. One reason I could think of is that the NET+ is a good way to gauge someones skill before they go for the CCNA training. So if you don't pass the NET+, you can't continue on. However, CCNA isn't exactly a cake walk, so if someone who passes the NET+ does NOT pass the CCNA after 2 tries, then at the very least they have their NET+ and we can still find a career opportunity for them. (And eventually have them come back as alumni where we might be able to get them additional training after hours after they've started working)

That's just my personal thinking, but I'm also always looking for new certs to offer, new training curriculum and looking to hear back from current employer partners what they might be looking for over the next couple of years as the industry advances further.

In any case, I'll be going back and forth with business developers, instructors, and maybe even funders about what we need to start making available but also ensuring that the people want to service are able to achieve success through us.

Hondabuff

Network+ is general networking and covers the basics that you must know. CCNA is vendor specific and teaches you Cisco Routing and Switching. Network+ always was and should be the prereq to CCNA. Being certified in both, I can attest to the validity of having done the Network+ before starting my Cisco career path.

Hondabuff

Raizo wrote: »

If you are NOT planning on going for a track cert, then head straigt into CCENT/CCNA. I'm basically in the same boat as you, and have signed up for the CCENT/CCNA classes already. I've done a little research and found that basically, if you can pass the CCENT exam, you can pass the N+ with just a little studying. The certs have "elective" portions on their exams, one of which is satisfied with passing 2 of the compTIA exams but not the Cisco exams, so that's something to thing about should you plan to head in that direction in the future. free cell phone tracker I'd take the classes for the CCENT/CCNA, and take the N+ exam halfway through. 2 birds, one stone, and 1/4 of the way towards the MCSA cert.

Your going to be a pretty worthless Network Engineer with a CCNA when you cant identify the difference between a LC and SC ends of a cable. CCNA does not teach you the fundamentals of networking. Cisco assumes you know what is an SFP is before you start the course. CCENT and CCNA build off Network+. Not sure why that new students think that because you passed the CCNA you automatically know the content of Network+. If you basing it off of "Cert Status" yes CCNA holds more weight then Network+ for job recruiters. But a CCNA with Network+ is more valuable in the real world when it comes to network knowledge.

Here is the outline for Network+

Lesson 1 - Welcome to CompTIA Network+ 2009 Training
 Lesson 2 - Basic Networking Fundamentals
 Lesson 3 - Network Media
 Lesson 4 - Network Topologies
 Lesson 5 - OSI Model
 Lesson 6 - TCP/IP
 Lesson 7 - TCP/IP Protocols
 Lesson 8 - Network Devices
 Lesson 9 - Routing
 Lesson 10 - Wireless Networking
 Lesson 11 - Networking Command Line Tools
 Lesson 12 - Network Performance Optimization
 Lesson 13 - Network Tools
 Lesson 14 - Network Monitoring
 Lesson 15 - Documentation
 Lesson 16 - Troubleshooting
 Lesson 17 - Network Security

CCNA Outline

[h=3]1.0 Operation of IP Data Networks[/h]
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1.1 Recognize the purpose and functions of various network devices such as routers, switches, bridges and hubs

1.2 Select the components required to meet a given network specification

1.3 Identify common applications and their impact on the network

1.4 Describe the purpose and basic operation of the protocols in the OSI and TCP/IP models

1.5 Predict the data flow between two hosts across a network

1.6 Identify the appropriate media, cables, ports, and connectors to connect Cisco network devices to other network devices and hosts in a LAN

[h=3]2.0 LAN Switching Technologies[/h]
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2.1Determine the technology and media access control method for Ethernet networks

2.2 Identify basic switching concepts and the operation of Cisco switches

2.2.a Collision Domains
2.2.b Broadcast Domains
2.2.c Ways to switch
- 2.2.c Store
- 2.2.c [ii] Forward
- 2.2.c [iii] Cut through
2.2.d CAM Table

2.3 Configure and verify initial switch configuration including remote access management

2.3.a hostname
2.3.b mgmt IP address
2.3.c IP default-gateway
2.3.d local user and password
2.3.e enable secret password
2.3.f console and VTY logins
2.3.g exec-timeout
2.3.h service password encryption
2.3.i copy run start

2.4 Verify network status and switch operation using basic utilities such as

2.4.a ping
2.4.b telnet
2.4.c SSH

2.5 Describe how VLANs create logically separate networks and the need for routing between them

2.5.a Explain network segmentation and basic traffic management concepts

2.6 Configure and verify VLANs

2.7 Configure and verify trunking on Cisco switches

2.7.a dtp (topic)
2.7.b auto-negotiation

2.8 Identify enhanced switching technologies

2.8.a RSTP
2.8.b PVSTP
2.8.c Etherchannels

2.9 Configure and verify PVSTP operation

2.9.a Describe root bridge election
2.9.b Spanning tree mode

[h=3]3.0 IP Addressing (IPv4/IPv6)[/h]
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3.1 Describe the operation and necessity of using private and public IP addresses for IPv4 addressing

3.2 Identify the appropriate IPv6 addressing scheme to satisfy addressing requirements in a LAN/WAN environment

3.3 Identify the appropriate IPv4 addressing scheme using VLSM and summarization to satisfy addressing requirements in a LAN/WAN environment.

3.4 Describe the technological requirements for running IPv6 in conjunction with IPv4

3.4.a dual stack

3.5 Describe IPv6 addresses

3.5.a global unicast
3.5.b multicast
3.5.c link local
3.5.d unique local
3.5.e eui 64
3.5.f auto-configuration

[h=3]4.0 IP Routing Technologies[/h]
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4.1 Describe basic routing concepts

4.1.a packet forwarding
4.1.b router lookup process
4.1.c Process Switching/Fast Switching/CEF

4.2 Configure and verify utilizing the CLI to set basic Router configuration

4.2.a hostname
4.2.b local user and password
4.2.c enable secret password
4.2.d console and VTY logins
4.2.e exec-timeout
4.2.f service password encryption
4.2.g Interface IP Address
- 4.2.g loopback
4.2.h banner
4.2.i motd
4.2.j copy run start

4.3 Configure and verify operation status of a device interface

4.3.a Serial
4.3.b Ethernet

4.4 Verify router configuration and network connectivity using

4.4.a ping
- 4.4.a extended
4.4.b traceroute
4.4.c telnet
4.4.d SSH
4.4.e sh cdp neighbors

4.5 Configure and verify routing configuration for a static or default route given specific routing requirements

4.6 Differentiate methods of routing and routing protocols

4.6.a Static versus Dynamic
4.6.b Link state versus Distance Vector
4.6.c next hop
4.6.d ip routing table
4.6.e Passive Interfaces (how they work)
4.6.f Admin Distance
4.6.g split horizon
4.6.h metric

4.7 Configure and verify OSPF

4.7.a Benefit of single area
4.7.b Configure OSPv2
4.7.c Configure OSPv3
4.7.d Router ID
4.7.e Passive Interface
4.7.f Discuss multi-area OSPF
4.7.g Understand LSA types and purpose

4.8 Configure and verify interVLAN routing (Router on a stick)

4.8.a sub interfaces
4.8.b upstream routing
4.8.c encapsulation

4.9 Configure SVI interfaces

4.10 Manage Cisco IOS Files

4.10.a Boot Preferences
4.10.b Cisco IOS Images (15)
4.10.c Licensing
- 4.10.c Show license
- 4.10.c [ii] Change license

4.11 Configure and verify EIGRP (single AS)

4.11.a Feasible Distance/Feasible Successors/Administrative distance
4.11.b Feasibility condition
4.11.c Metric composition
4.11.d Router ID
4.11.e auto summary
4.11.f Path Selection
4.11.g Load Balancing
- 4.11.g Unequal
- 4.11.g [ii] Equal

[h=3]5.0 IP Services[/h]
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5.1 Configure and verify DHCP (IOS Router)

5.1.a Configuring router interfaces to use DHCP
5.1.b DHCP options (basic overview and functionality)
5.1.c Excluded addresses
5.1.d Lease time

5.2 Describe the types, features, and applications of ACLs

5.2.a standard (editing and sequence numbers)
5.2.b extended
5.2.c named
5.2.d numbered
5.2.e Log option

5.3 Configure and verify ACLs in a network environment

5.3.a named
5.3.b numbered
5.3.c Log option

5.4 Identify the basic operation of NAT

5.4.a purpose
5.4.b pool
5.4.c static
5.4.d 1 to 1
5.4.e overloading
5.4.f source addressing
5.4.g one way NAT

5.5 Configure and verify NAT for given network requirements

5.6 Configure and verify NTP as a client.

5.7 Recognize High availability (FHRP)

5.7.a VRRP
5.7.b HSRP
5.7.c GLBP

5.8 Configure and verify syslog

5.8.a Utilize Syslog Output

5.9 Describe SNMP v2 and v3

[h=3]6.0 Network Device Security [/h]
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6.1 Configure and verify network device security features

6.1.a Device password security
6.1.b enable secret versus enable
6.1.c Transport
6.1.c.1 disable telnet
6.1.c.2 SSH
6.1.d VTYs
6.1.e physical security
6.1.f service password
6.1.g Describe external authentication methods

6.2 Configure and verify Switch Port Security

6.2.a Sticky mac
6.2.b MAC address limitation
6.2.c static/dynamic
6.2.d violation modes
- 6.2.d err disable
- 6.2.d [ii] shutdown
- 6.2.d [iii] protect restrict
6.2.e shutdown unused ports
6.2.f err disable recovery
6.2.g assign unused ports in unused VLANs
6.2.h putting Native VLAN to other than VLAN 1

6.3 Configure and verify ACLs to filter network traffic

6.4 Configure and verify ACLs to limit telnet and SSH access to the router

[h=3]7.0 Troubleshooting [/h]
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7.1 Troubleshoot and correct common problems associated with IP addressing and host configurations

7.2 Troubleshoot and resolve VLAN problems

7.2.a Identify that VLANs are configured
7.2.b Verify port membership correct
7.2.c Correct IP address configured

7.3 Troubleshoot and resolve trunking problems on Cisco switches

7.3.a Verify correct trunk states
7.3.b Verify correct encapsulation configured
7.3.c Correct VLANs allowed

7.4 Troubleshoot and resolve ACL issues

7.4.a Verify statistics
7.4.b Verify permitted networks
7.4.c Verify direction
- 7.4.c Interface

7.5 Troubleshoot and resolve Layer 1 problems

7.5.a Framing
7.5.b CRC
7.5.c Runts
7.5.d Giants
7.5.e Dropped packets
7.5.f Late collisions
7.5.g Input/output errors

7.6 Identify and correct common network problems

7.7 Troubleshoot and resolve spanning tree operation issues

7.7.a Verify root switch
7.7.b Verify priority
7.7.c Verify mode is correct
7.7.d Verify port states

7.8 Troubleshoot and resolve routing issues

7.8.a Verify routing is enabled (sh IP protocols)
7.8.b Verify routing table is correct
7.8.c Verify correct path selection

7.9 Troubleshoot and resolve OSPF problems

7.9.a Verify neighbor adjacencies
7.9.b Verify Hello and Dead timers
7.9.c Verify OSPF area
7.9.d Verify interface MTU
7.9.e Verify network types
7.9.f Verify neighbor states
7.9.g Review OSPF topology table

7.10 Troubleshoot and resolve EIGRP problems

7.10.a Verify neighbor adjacencies
7.10.b Verify AS number
7.10.c Verify load balancing
7.10.d Split horizon

7.11 Troubleshoot and resolve interVLAN routing problems

7.11.a Verify connectivity
7.11.b Verify encapsulation
7.11.c Verify subnet
7.11.d Verify native VLAN
7.11.e Port mode trunk status

7.12 Troubleshoot and resolve WAN implementation issues

7.12.a Serial interfaces
7.12.b Frame relay
7.12.c PPP

7.13 Monitor NetFlow statistics

7.14 TS EtherChannel problems

[h=3]8.0 WAN Technologies[/h]
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quickman007

Hondabuff wrote: »

Network+ is general networking and covers the basics that you must know. CCNA is vendor specific and teaches you Cisco Routing and Switching. Network+ always was and should be the prereq to CCNA. Being certified in both, I can attest to the validity of having done the Network+ before starting my Cisco career path.

I second this. Learn the N+ material even if you don't take the exam.