Am I right or am I wrong - 70-687

culpano wrote: »

On a practice exam provider I am now losing confidence with as some of the answers have incorrect info. Sorry I know everyone seems to be washing their hands of Windows 8 and these exams will be retired soon but I am trying to get them before they retire....

one question was what would I do to do apply a factory image and preserve files and accounts. It was a drag and drop buttons across to detail the steps.

i actually chose "Select Refresh your PC" as single option.

was told the answer was wrong and to run "shutdown /r /o" first.

Well correct me if I'm wrong but do you actually have to do this first ? Ok it will boot into recovery environment then do the steps to apply the image but this first step doesn't have to be initiated by the user surely ?

in aother question on File History one of the answers they gave was copying the data into C:\DOCUMENTS folder. I didnt choose this option as I know there is no such thing as C:\DOCUMENTS. if they'd said Documents library then I'd have chosen it.

Another question started with "a user wants to upgrade his Windows 8 Home Premium PC."

£700 I spent trying to learn this stuff.

Aah I give up

Hi,
Not knowing the entire question content will make it hard to offer a suggestions to whether that is right or wrong, but I would certainly say based on the info you have provided thus far that (shutdown /r /o) first." is a suspect answer.

Keep slogging at it dude, I know where you coming from in regards to passing an exam that is soon to be obsolete, I passed 70-687 a few months ago and I am about to sit 70-688!

Thanks for the encouragement. Losing the will to live at the moment ! I've hit a brick wall after putting in a mammoth amount of effort.
To be honest I've left this too late. I hadn't realised the exams were retiring until I'd bought the two exam refs, two MOAC lab books, Pluralsight and CBT Nuggets monthly subscription and two extra PCs. I cannot see me getting this and 70-688 before end of Nov at this rate. I may end up giving up and taking a bit more time over Windows 10. Been too much effort trying to fast track this after being out of the IT game for a number of years.

I understand most of the stuff but some of the stuff they test you on (based on the MeasureUp) is reference material (Powershell CMDlets) that people are supposed to memorise ???

Hi.

New to the forum and also working towards 8.1 certification before the exams are retired.

I did it knowingly for several reasons. I wanted to be 8.1 certified with the option to upgrade to 10 with a single test instead of two. Also, I wanted to have both 8.1 and 10 certifications on my CV at the end of the day. My reasoning is like you culpano, I have been out of the industry since mid-2013 and need it to have some semblance of credibility as a tech again.

I can also empathize with you. I started the journey in August of this year and I was a little nervous at the clock ticking. I had a rough time trying to stop myself from speeding through the training. I forced myself to slow down and really learn the material before moving on to the next topic and that made all the difference. I passed 70-687 on my first attempt.

I was not so successful at slowing down for 70-688 and failed that exam this past week.

Now I have set myself a new date to try again in early October. If needed, I can take the exam up to 4 more times before the retirement date as I have to wait 14 days after every failure to retake the exam so that went into my time line. Still, I will do my best not to utilize that many attempts! lol

With regard to the exam prep question, I'm with manc. Need more info to judge but seems like an odd solution. In my training materials for 70-687, I never saw a similar question/answer. CBT Nuggets and Pluralsight training is pretty good in my experiences with them. However, I used Skillsoft training (based in Ireland), the MS Exam Ref book (which I found most unhelpful of all my tools), the Microsoft Virtual Academy training, the Technet site for reference material and Google searches to find sites like this one. The combo seemed to work well for the first exam.

The Skillsoft training had TestPrep as part of the package as well. In the test prep, they had one question (at least) that marked wrong answers as being correct and right answers as being incorrect. I contacted them and challenged the validity of the answers and it turned out that I was right. At first I was upset that the material was wrong but then I realized that I needed to know the material and feel confident enough to challenge it. That was what I needed to trust my knowledge and verify that my studying was in fact working. Still not happy about it but I realize that it wasn't the end of the world. The training was still doing its job (though not in the intended way).

So what happened with 70-688 you ask? My exam had a load of questions on using System Center Configuration Manager 2012 R2 and Microsoft Intune to manage Windows 8 devices (including mobile phones). The exam title is "Managing and Maintaining" the OS but I thought this was a load of BS since those two systems are technologies that are NOT part of Windows 8. One is a server/database based application and the other is a cloud based service. How is that required knowledge to be proficient in the "Windows 8.1 OS"? Anyway, I digress.

I signed up for a free trial of Microsoft Intune and spent a lot of time trying to set it up so I could work with it to study and guess what ... the service has changed so much that there are parts of the exam that asked questions about functionality that no longer exists in the product!! In particular, managing Windows Updates within Intune is no longer an option but I had at least one question on that very subject in my exam. That was beyond frustrating when there are only 39 questions in the exam. So, now I am setting up SCCM in my test environment, looking for historical support documentation for Intune and starting my studying all over again. Oh joy.

Anyway, wish me luck and I look forward to reading any updates on what you decide to do. I like the idea of brothers in arms doing battle to gain the MCSA cert. Gives me encouragement not to give up knowing I am not the only one in the struggle.

Fritz

PS Sorry for the long post. Needed to get that off my chest.

Hi FritzG, I admire your dedication. It's hard work is this. Much much harder than the NT4 days. I am now even more despondant about the 70-688 after what you've said. My 70-687 exam in on 23rd Sept and I am not really that confident. If I did miraculously scrape through I have only 6 weeks to study for 70-688 as I am away ten days in USA in November. Add to this the fact I have to acquire and setup SCCM, Intune, Office 365 and just get it all working ready I think this is beyond my reach. I my just have to be content with half an MCSA if I do get 70-687. Congrats on your success in the first exam and as you have already taken 70-688 you should have plenty of time to get that by end Nov. Gary

culpano wrote: »

Thanks for the encouragement. Losing the will to live at the moment ! I've hit a brick wall after putting in a mammoth amount of effort.
To be honest I've left this too late. I hadn't realised the exams were retiring until I'd bought the two exam refs, two MOAC lab books, Pluralsight and CBT Nuggets monthly subscription and two extra PCs. I cannot see me getting this and 70-688 before end of Nov at this rate. I may end up giving up and taking a bit more time over Windows 10. Been too much effort trying to fast track this after being out of the IT game for a number of years. I understand most of the stuff but some of the stuff they test you on (based on the MeasureUp) is reference material (Powershell CMDlets) that people are supposed to memorise ???

I found myself not trying to memories as many Powershell cmdlets but to try and remember what each does, in my mind it made things a little easier to remember, otherwise it was getting impossible as there are SO MANY! I decided a long time ago that I would take my time and do what I could as I young family which consumes alot of time in the evenings and weekends, tried avoiding setting targets but rather give myself 3mths study time for each cert, maybe longer depending on the number of objectives for a particular cert.

If you haven't already review the skills measured page for this exam, I found this kept me on track rather than running away reviewing material that was'nt on this list.

Hope the above helps.

FritzG wrote: »

Hi.

New to the forum and also working towards 8.1 certification before the exams are retired.

I did it knowingly for several reasons. I wanted to be 8.1 certified with the option to upgrade to 10 with a single test instead of two. Also, I wanted to have both 8.1 and 10 certifications on my CV at the end of the day. My reasoning is like you culpano, I have been out of the industry since mid-2013 and need it to have some semblance of credibility as a tech again.

I can also empathize with you. I started the journey in August of this year and I was a little nervous at the clock ticking. I had a rough time trying to stop myself from speeding through the training. I forced myself to slow down and really learn the material before moving on to the next topic and that made all the difference. I passed 70-687 on my first attempt.

I was not so successful at slowing down for 70-688 and failed that exam this past week.

Now I have set myself a new date to try again in early October. If needed, I can take the exam up to 4 more times before the retirement date as I have to wait 14 days after every failure to retake the exam so that went into my time line. Still, I will do my best not to utilize that many attempts! lol

With regard to the exam prep question, I'm with manc. Need more info to judge but seems like an odd solution. In my training materials for 70-687, I never saw a similar question/answer. CBT Nuggets and Pluralsight training is pretty good in my experiences with them. However, I used Skillsoft training (based in Ireland), the MS Exam Ref book (which I found most unhelpful of all my tools), the Microsoft Virtual Academy training, the Technet site for reference material and Google searches to find sites like this one. The combo seemed to work well for the first exam.

The Skillsoft training had TestPrep as part of the package as well. In the test prep, they had one question (at least) that marked wrong answers as being correct and right answers as being incorrect. I contacted them and challenged the validity of the answers and it turned out that I was right. At first I was upset that the material was wrong but then I realized that I needed to know the material and feel confident enough to challenge it. That was what I needed to trust my knowledge and verify that my studying was in fact working. Still not happy about it but I realize that it wasn't the end of the world. The training was still doing its job (though not in the intended way).

So what happened with 70-688 you ask? My exam had a load of questions on using System Center Configuration Manager 2012 R2 and Microsoft Intune to manage Windows 8 devices (including mobile phones). The exam title is "Managing and Maintaining" the OS but I thought this was a load of BS since those two systems are technologies that are NOT part of Windows 8. One is a server/database based application and the other is a cloud based service. How is that required knowledge to be proficient in the "Windows 8.1 OS"? Anyway, I digress.

I signed up for a free trial of Microsoft Intune and spent a lot of time trying to set it up so I could work with it to study and guess what ... the service has changed so much that there are parts of the exam that asked questions about functionality that no longer exists in the product!! In particular, managing Windows Updates within Intune is no longer an option but I had at least one question on that very subject in my exam. That was beyond frustrating when there are only 39 questions in the exam. So, now I am setting up SCCM in my test environment, looking for historical support documentation for Intune and starting my studying all over again. Oh joy.

Anyway, wish me luck and I look forward to reading any updates on what you decide to do. I like the idea of brothers in arms doing battle to gain the MCSA cert. Gives me encouragement not to give up knowing I am not the only one in the struggle.

Fritz

PS Sorry for the long post. Needed to get that off my chest.

Your experience has thrown my confidence a little and its disappointing to hear that the 70-688 exam contains questions for material that has now changed, I suspected this might be the case thou, as I was working my way through he 70-688 reference book I got to the section on Intune and noted that the step by step did not match the Intune portal, so I found myself reading the book anyway and then fumbling my way through the process on the Intune portal, this area is probably the area that is going to be my undoing during the exam!!! I read somthing on the exam T&C's that you contest a failure and even questions, would this be an idea for you?

Thanks.

Cheers manc. I am now reviewing all the questions in the question bank and they are littered with errors. I am carefully checking them against Technet but it seems a strange way to do things, checking Technet because I think some of the test exam provider info is incorrect. One of the questions gave a choice for recovery after failed startup and the answer the gave was use last known good configuration. That is simply a pile of rubbish. Another explanation they gave to a question was "picture passwords can only be used on a touch screen device". Again another load of nonsense.

Gary, Manc,

I know the feeling of losing confidence. After my success with 70-687, I was hopeful to pass on my first go round at 688. Alas, it was not meant to be. I thought about challenging the question on managing Windows Updates via Intune but then I put on my "Microsoft logic" hat and thought that would go nowhere.

Microsoft: "You take an old exam, you will be tested on old objectives. The fact that it is an evolving cloud product that does not have historical versions available is irrelevant. There are study materials covering the product out there that should enable one to learn the necessary skills to pass the exam."

That is basically what the Skillsoft training mentor told me when I asked them about the differences in the Intune training vs. the Intune product site on Microsoft. That said, I think I will submit a challenge and at least make them tell me they won't discount that question from the exam or the exam itself ... just in case I failed by the value of just one question (which I do not think is the case).

On another note, while I don't advocate the reliance on test **** as a means to pass a test, I think in this case I would make an exception due to the time constraints and exam injustices (it really irks me that I am being tested on SCCM & Intune for a desktop OS exam). I have found that many test **** sites that are free have good questions but answers identified as being correct are quite often questionable. I have found these types of resources to be one of the better tools for study as I am required to research wrong answers and rule them out by my own judgment. I learn more figuring out what is wrong than learning what is right! lol It also helps me to focus on actual subject matter that has a much better chance of actually being on a test. Just do a search on "Microsoft Questions & Answers" if you think it can help you too.

Manc, in my opinion, your way is the correct way to study for these exams. Blowing through it in weeks instead of months leaves very little retained. I also believe that these exams are meant to be complimentary to actual real world experience with the products. Unfortunately, hiring managers and human resource departments incapable of judging technology skills have made them a measuring stick for how qualified a candidate is. These days, you can't even get an interview for a decent opportunity without at least a couple of these on your CV.

Gary, I also see that you and I are part of the old guard that actually know what "NT4" is. I would question though whether or not the stuff today is actually harder. More complex yes, but back then, "plug & play" meant plug it in and play with it until you get it to work. Put one of these hot shot new age techies on one of those machines without access to Google and they would be useless. Would they even know what a dip switch is?

How about you Manc? You ever work with NT4?

I'll post an update after I challenge the question with Microsoft (if I still can).

Fritz

Good luck with that Fritz. You are pobably fighting a losing battle though. Yep I agree it is much harder than it was in the NT4 days because they are asking people to delve into Technet resources for everything. If the real test is similar to the sample tests provider I'm using then it's going to be impossible. In nearly all professions the person has a general mastery of the material and if required will simply refer to the reference material. A doctor will give an initial diagnosis of something but could refer to reference material. Same with a lawyer, an aircraft engineer and a computer specialist. Look I know how to use storage spaces, can build OSs from scratch, multi boot etc, can use DISM to service images, inject features, can set up networks, install servers, can join computers to a domain, setup DHCP, Use Hyper-V, setup file history, system recovery options etc. What I can't do is memorise hundreds of GPO settings and Powershell commands. Why would any specialist need to do this ? He knows the basics, he just needs to refer to thr manual for further detail.

Wow Gary. I would be asking for my money back on that product. Those are simply just wrong and misleading.

A word of caution to you with how you use Technet to verify an answer. In one example, I was researching the difference between using the Powershell command "Lock-BitLocker" and the command line "manage-bde -lock" command in how to prevent a user from accessing data on an encrypted hard drive. Technet lead me to believe that manage-bde was the right answer but further research in my test environment and more searches showed that the right answer (for study purposes) was the BitLocker powershell command ... even though both answers do the same thing. This is probably because Microsoft wants everyone to use Powershell as their de facto command line language (and you kind of have to if you plan on being a Microsoft guy). I had to make an educated guess that this was the correct "Microsoft exam" answer as both are "technically" correct.

Here is the Technet page I used to reference that topic and how it can be confusing without trying to be.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj647767.aspx

Fritz

Gary,

Hence my disdain for certifications throughout my career and ambivalence towards those who use test **** to pass an an exam ...

What choice do we have in this day and age with ridiculous exams like this? I can't let it get me down or I'll give up. lol I like technology and the decent pay that comes with it too much for that.

Fritz

I'm using MeasureUp which is one of the official Microsoft practice exam testers. The reason for my other post on the upgrade to Win 8.1 question is even such a basic question is throwing doubts in my mind. There is enough to learn without different sources giving conflicting answers for stuff. The green MS exam ref book contradicts some of the MS stuff. Delving deeper into technet sometimes doesn't give the definitive answer ! Upgrade paths from 7 to 8 is one example. Some says apps go across some say not. Storage spaces - the green book says you can use USB flash drives. You can't I've tried it ! What happens if this is an option for a question ? There is too much contradictary information out there. Anyway it won't change much I suppose i'll either pass or fail. I'll just take the exam and see how I fare.

The luck of the draw I suppose.

Good luck to us all I say.

Fritz

Cheers. Another of the questions started...."A user wants to upgrade his Windows 8 Home Premium PC" !!!!

Oh dear !!!

lololol

Hi Fritz, Just run through another 50 question practice exam. One of the questions was best way to get a user setup for accepting remote Powershell CMDlets. The only answer that seemed correct to me was "use Easy Connect". I would have used that to take the user machine over and run an elevated Powershell session and run "Enable-PSRemoting" or run "Winrm quickconfig" at elevated command prompt (not really that straightforward). Turns out I was wrong. The "correct" answer they gave was get the user to run "Winrm /qc". For one thing there is no such command syntax. Secondly the user would have to be admin so it wouldn't work anyway ! Sorry to bang on about this but if anyone is using these test banks to try to learn the stuff then they may be being led down the wrong path. It's ok saying just review Technet but their explanations need to be correct in the first place or there is no point in producing these test exams. The product is LITTERED with errors ! Rant over !

ps Actually in some ways it's enforcing the knowledge but in a very strange way.

Indeed. It would be pretty easy for Microsoft to catch someone who is blatantly just memorizing loads of test bank answers in hopes of seeing the question on the exam without actually knowing the subject matter. Pick that "winrm /qc" answer on the test and bam! ... your exam score has been disqualified!

I never care about what answers or explanations they give validating their answers. I only care about the topic question and subject matter.

To me, it is the best way to study. I am certain you now know the correct syntax for the "winrm" command, where it needs to be run, that it needs elevated privileges (can't be run without local admin credentials) and I bet you now also know at least a couple of the switches that you can use with the command (none of which are /qc). All from one incredibly wrong answer. lol

Still, rant on my friend. I do not blame you at all.

FritzG wrote: »

On another note, while I don't advocate the reliance on test **** as a means to pass a test, I think in this case I would make an exception due to the time constraints and exam injustices (it really irks me that I am being tested on SCCM & Intune for a desktop OS exam). I have found that many test **** sites that are free have good questions but answers identified as being correct are quite often questionable. I have found these types of resources to be one of the better tools for study as I am required to research wrong answers and rule them out by my own judgment. I learn more figuring out what is wrong than learning what is right! lol It also helps me to focus on actual subject matter that has a much better chance of actually being on a test. Just do a search on "Microsoft Questions & Answers" if you think it can help you too.

Manc, in my opinion, your way is the correct way to study for these exams. Blowing through it in weeks instead of months leaves very little retained. I also believe that these exams are meant to be complimentary to actual real world experience with the products. Unfortunately, hiring managers and human resource departments incapable of judging technology skills have made them a measuring stick for how qualified a candidate is. These days, you can't even get an interview for a decent opportunity without at least a couple of these on your CV.

How about you Manc? You ever work with NT4?

Fritz

Time will tell if my approach is successful or not but I do agree that the cheer amount your expected to recall for just one exam MS topic is insane! How you could study for a dozen of the buggers at the same time is beyond me.

**** is a no no for me, there are all sorts of MS pitfalls surrounding **** so I have steered clear, I do use Transender and Measureup which have proved invaluable be it quite an expensive choice considering they cost as much as the exams themselves and the exams are being retired! There should be some sort of discount made when test exams begin to reach retirement!

Not having these type of certs to put onto a CV is the reason for taking them, it just opens up far more doors having them.

Yes I have worked with NT4 and do recall how much effort was required to set it up with new hardware, I recall having to manually setup I/O and IRQs for ISA slotted parallel ports! I even remember working the BNC networks, god those connectors, tee pieces, terminators and length of coax cable was a nightmare! Crazy now that you mention it I even remember working with SCSI hard drives with the huge 48pin connectors which required you to manually set IDs on the drives and insure correct termination was applied, god I bet I am showing my age now!

Decided the other night that even if I fail this exam I will take up the free second shot and try and get as many retakes as I can prior to the exam retiring in the Nov, I dont intend to sit the Windows 10 exams, not in the short term anyways, hopefully it wont come to this thou!

You will have to keep us posted on contesting the questions and exam, be interesting to see what the result is.

Wow, the memories. My friends, we are like fine wine - increasing in value and prestige with age. lol

Regarding the exam question challenge, I was too late. The policy states you only have 3 days from the date you took the exam to submit a challenge so I missed my window. Hopefully there is no next time but if there is ...

Edit: I re-read their policies and it would have done no good to challenge anyway.

"Note: Item challenges will not be reviewed for exams that will be retired within 6 months."

It also states that the only result of identifying a bad question is to get a free re-take. They do not re-score the exam in any cases. So with that said, don't fail the exam is the key takeaway. lol

As all three of us are banging away at this, please feel free to PM me with any questions or just to vent if needed. I find trying to help someone is a great way to reinforce knowledge as well. Also, I personally feel good when I know I am helping someone out. That was the silly idea I had when I thought this career would be a good fit for me. I get to help people and get paid for it? Turns out that it wasn't exactly how I imagined it (feeling appreciated by those I assist is mostly a pipe dream) but even with that, I don't regret my decision.

Anyway, time to carry on.

Manc, Yes I'm with you there on the NT4 messing about. When I was doing Windows 95 MCP I was forever pluggin in video cards, modems etc to test plug and play and seeing lots of blue screens !

Fritz, aah I've given up questioning the test exams, I've just done extra work to try to find out the info. I am aware that is what I should be doing anyway but the wrong info is casting doubts.

There is a rather big gotcha with the Windows 8.1 stuff in that that are some extremely subtle differences between 8 and 8.1 that even the official MS material, CBT nuggets etc havent picked up on. One being upgrade paths and what settings retained and another one video resolution requirements to snap an app.

It has certainly been picked up by MeasureUp and it actually needs a really deep delve to find the definitive answer. I think this is a bit of a "aah we are trying to catch you out" which shouldnt be the aim of the game.

The stuff is hard enough to learn without that !

The only reason I was going to do it was because of the verifiable and stark difference but in reality, it was probably going to be for naught anyway.

I found the Skillsoft training to be pretty good with making distinctions between the 8 and 8.1 (although it did keep the outdated content in the Intune module). The video resolution snap requirements was actually one of the topics they covered and made mention of the difference in updated content.

Test question creators probably take joy in trying to create "gotcha" questions. lol

FritzG wrote: »

Wow, the memories. My friends, we are like fine wine - increasing in value and prestige with age. lol

Regarding the exam question challenge, I was too late. The policy states you only have 3 days from the date you took the exam to submit a challenge so I missed my window. Hopefully there is no next time but if there is ...

Edit: I re-read their policies and it would have done no good to challenge anyway.

"Note: Item challenges will not be reviewed for exams that will be retired within 6 months."

It also states that the only result of identifying a bad question is to get a free re-take. They do not re-score the exam in any cases. So with that said, don't fail the exam is the key takeaway. lol

As all three of us are banging away at this, please feel free to PM me with any questions or just to vent if needed. I find trying to help someone is a great way to reinforce knowledge as well. Also, I personally feel good when I know I am helping someone out. That was the silly idea I had when I thought this career would be a good fit for me. I get to help people and get paid for it? Turns out that it wasn't exactly how I imagined it (feeling appreciated by those I assist is mostly a pipe dream) but even with that, I don't regret my decision.

Anyway, time to carry on.

Tried PM'ing you earlier but nothing is apprearing within my sent items box, will re-send the PM but do let me know if you receive something or not.

Thanks.

manc wrote: »

Tried PM'ing you earlier but nothing is apprearing within my sent items box, will re-send the PM but do let me know if you receive something or not.

Thanks.

I was not getting notifications of any PM's but I went and checked just now. Will reply shortly. Sorry mates.

Update: Sat for 70-688 yesterday (October 16th) on the free retake offered until the end of the year and failed it by 22 points (got a 678 out of 700 needed to pass). That hurt so much more than failing miserably like I did the first time. lol

I went back to the site to check on the exam retirement date (as having gotten so close made me rethink ditching it completely) and not sure if I am seeing things but it looks like the retirement date has been moved out to July 2016 instead of the November date I saw earlier? I sent them an email to verify this info. I have become OCD about having an MSCA instead of just MCP/Specialist. I guess I just hate to have wasted the effort studying for this exam without a proper return on investment.

There is NO logic to this ideology but if it has moved out to July, I will try again before then. If not, I'll be moving on to other certifications instead and settle for the MCP I already have when I passed 70-687.

FritzG wrote: »

Update: Sat for 70-688 yesterday (October 16th) on the free retake offered until the end of the year and failed it by 22 points (got a 678 out of 700 needed to pass). That hurt so much more than failing miserably like I did the first time. lol

I went back to the site to check on the exam retirement date (as having gotten so close made me rethink ditching it completely) and not sure if I am seeing things but it looks like the retirement date has been moved out to July 2016 instead of the November date I saw earlier? I sent them an email to verify this info. I have become OCD about having an MSCA instead of just MCP/Specialist. I guess I just hate to have wasted the effort studying for this exam without a proper return on investment.

There is NO logic to this ideology but if it has moved out to July, I will try again before then. If not, I'll be moving on to other certifications instead and settle for the MCP I already have when I passed 70-687.

Gutted for you pal, but you are very close, I would resit straight away while its still fresh in your mind.

Your not wrong FritzG about the retirement reschedule, says my end that the retirement date is now 31st July 2016!!!

ManC