computer security

Tech333

For a career in this field is a cs degree worthwhile?

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jt2929

You bet. Pretty much any IT related degree is worthwhile, then you get certs specific to security to move you along.

Cyberscum

It will take you further than anything else you can get in IT. If I was to do it all over I would have concentrated less on certs and more on a CS degree.

Although it takes a certain kinda person to sit through and pass calculus 2 classes. I am not he...Or he is not I... I was never any good at english as well.

philz1982

I'll put it this way. My biggest regret career wise, is that I got a degree in Business for my BS and not a CS degree. I could be leap years beyond where I am right now both in title and pay if I had gotten a CS degree.

dustervoice

It will be one of the best decisions in your life!!

danny069

You bet your bottom dollar it is, go for your Masters too, it will pay off in the end.

fuz1on

A sound computer science education is very useful in security - and necessary...IMHO.

TWX

philz1982 wrote: »

I'll put it this way. My biggest regret career wise, is that I got a degree in Business for my BS and not a CS degree. I could be leap years beyond where I am right now both in title and pay if I had gotten a CS degree.

I've had friends with the opposite experience- they got their Management Information Systems or Computer Information Systems degrees through the Business School and got further, faster, than those that got Computer Science or Computer Systems Engineering degrees through the Engineering and Applied Sciences school. They had easier curriculum and they learned the other kind of networking (ie, the human kind) and managed to parley their way up through the ranks faster in the workplace.

I've come to see the rather insidious nature of it; patronage is unfortunately at least as important as ability, and someone that can sell themselves even when they lack acumen will go further than someone that has the ability but doesn't know how to market it.

5502george

TWX wrote: »

I've had friends with the opposite experience- they got their Management Information Systems or Computer Information Systems degrees through the Business School and got further, faster, than those that got Computer Science or Computer Systems Engineering degrees through the Engineering and Applied Sciences school. They had easier curriculum and they learned the other kind of networking (ie, the human kind) and managed to parley their way up through the ranks faster in the workplace.

I've come to see the rather insidious nature of it; patronage is unfortunately at least as important as ability, and someone that can sell themselves even when they lack acumen will go further than someone that has the ability but doesn't know how to market it.

As far as the original question is concerned, did your friends with CS degrees have a hard time finding work? I doubt it.

philz1982

TWX wrote: »

I've had friends with the opposite experience- they got their Management Information Systems or Computer Information Systems degrees through the Business School and got further, faster, than those that got Computer Science or Computer Systems Engineering degrees through the Engineering and Applied Sciences school. They had easier curriculum and they learned the other kind of networking (ie, the human kind) and managed to parley their way up through the ranks faster in the workplace.

I've come to see the rather insidious nature of it; patronage is unfortunately at least as important as ability, and someone that can sell themselves even when they lack acumen will go further than someone that has the ability but doesn't know how to market it.

Based on my experience being a fairly extroverted person. You don't need a degree to learn people skills. You go to Toastmasters and networking groups and meet people. I would have my people skills regardless of my degree program. The nice part of a CS degree would be not having to teach myself programming while have a full-time job and kids. The business stuff is easy to learn, the people skills you either have or don't have, no degree will help you with that.

$bvb379

5502george wrote: »

As far as the original question is concerned, did your friends with CS degrees have a hard time finding work? I doubt it.

I second this. Got my undergrad in business, now I am teaching myself everything to get into the IT/Tech field. I have learned a lot on my own, don't get me wrong, but if employers don't see that CS degree or S.T.E.M degree in general then you better know someone to get in. I also would have learned what I am learning now when I was 18-22 rather than 26.

the_Grinch

Hands down go for the CS degree! As others have said, that was definitely one of my biggest regrets.

On a side note, welcome back Philz!

E Double U

philz1982 wrote: »

I'll put it this way. My biggest regret career wise, is that I got a degree in Business for my BS and not a CS degree. I could be leap years beyond where I am right now both in title and pay if I had gotten a CS degree.

You and I both.

$bvb379

TWX wrote: »

I've had friends with the opposite experience- they got their Management Information Systems or Computer Information Systems degrees through the Business School and got further, faster, than those that got Computer Science or Computer Systems Engineering degrees through the Engineering and Applied Sciences school. They had easier curriculum and they learned the other kind of networking (ie, the human kind) and managed to parley their way up through the ranks faster in the workplace.

I've come to see the rather insidious nature of it; patronage is unfortunately at least as important as ability, and someone that can sell themselves even when they lack acumen will go further than someone that has the ability but doesn't know how to market it.

Second paragraph is on point as well. I have two mentors who have been in the business for quite some time and they have told me the same thing. Technical skills can be taught to those who are willing to learn. Would you send the guy who sits in the corner, is an amazing programmer, but does not know how to communicate effectively when in a business meeting? No, you send the guy who is half as good but with phenomenal people skills.

Cyberscum

$bvb379 wrote: »

Second paragraph is on point as well. I have two mentors who have been in the business for quite some time and they have told me the same thing. Technical skills can be taught to those who are willing to learn. Would you send the guy who sits in the corner, is an amazing programmer, but does not know how to communicate effectively when in a business meeting? No, you send the guy who is half as good but with phenomenal people skills.

To Philz1982 point,

People skills can also be taught with little to no effort. And seriously, how many people in IT sit in the corner and cannot communicate with anyone? Maybe less than 5%

Think about it...

Would it be easier to teach someone how to speak in public/commutate or teach them advanced calculus and High-Performance Scientific Computing?

masdrobeda

I have CS degree and I found out that purely programming all day is not my game. This is the reason that I am about 2 years into IT field and I am going towards either Linux admin or Security. By the way, what field of IT do you think I can take the most out of my CS degree?

CS degree is kind of hard but you learn how to learn high level stuff. I think this is one of the reasons why I can get certs quite fast.

I did up to Calc 4 and its something that you just get used to the difficulty

LeBroke

Cyberscum wrote: »

It will take you further than anything else you can get in IT. If I was to do it all over I would have concentrated less on certs and more on a CS degree.

Although it takes a certain kinda person to sit through and pass calculus 2 classes. I am not he...Or he is not I... I was never any good at english as well.

I thought they were fun... Try analytical chemistry instead for an extra dose of sunshine and rainbows. It's like linear algebra except the numbers are all weird and 20 digits with sigfigs, you aren't taught to do any of the math, and in the end you're still judged for properly calculating the margin of error rather than getting an answer close to correct on your experimental results.

$bvb379

Cyberscum wrote: »

To Philz1982 point,

People skills can also be taught with little to no effort. And seriously, how many people in IT sit in the corner and cannot communicate with anyone? Maybe less than 5%

Think about it...

Would it be easier to teach someone how to speak in public/commutate or teach them advanced calculus and High-Performance Scientific Computing?

I said communicate effectively...please re-read. I also understand your point, however, you are also talking about a very specific skill set that may not be required or necessary for you to be an asset to a company. The point I was trying to make is that there is more room nowadays for soft skills in the IT environment. I will be the first to admit that I will never be a master programmer or anything like that.

Cyberscum

$bvb379 wrote: »

I said communicate effectively...please re-read. I also understand your point, however, you are also talking about a very specific skill set that may not be required or necessary for you to be an asset to a company. The point I was trying to make is that there is more room nowadays for soft skills in the IT environment. I will be the first to admit that I will never be a master programmer or anything like that.

At any rate the point is to be as well rounded as possible in todays environment so I get your point as well.

I still feel that the OP has a much better change of getting into security through a CS degree.

But at this point we have no idea what goals and aspirations the OP has for a career other than "I want to be in security," so its all a moot point.

TWX

5502george wrote: »

As far as the original question is concerned, did your friends with CS degrees have a hard time finding work? I doubt it.

They found work, but their positions were more often eliminated and they had to go through the process all over again compared to the ones with the CIS/MIS degrees.

Robertf969

I dont have a degree and I work in security, dont listen to the naysayers! Get your degree in underwater basket weaving!

On a more realistic note, a lot of sound advice here, I only have an Associates degree so I learned, or should I say am still learning, the hard way. If you do choose to go the security route be prepared to be a lifelong learner im sure a CS degree will give you a strong foundation though.

UnixGuy

philz1982 wrote: »

I could be leap years beyond where I am right now both in title and pay if I had gotten a CS degree.

Philz welcome back to TE!!