Officially Formed My LLC Today!

the_Grinch

I finally pulled the trigger and setup my LLC today! Got my mailbox on Monday and completed all the work required to incorporate (thank you Master's program for my Business Organizations course)! Wrote up my Operating Agreement and had a professor look at it to make sure I wasn't too far off the mark.

While I wrote up my operating agreement to allow for any work that was legal in my home state and the US I am going to be focusing on drone photography. Still need to buy my drone and pick up insurance, but I am a licensed drone pilot. I've reached out to a few real estate agent friends and their interested in getting pictures of their properties so I suspect I'll have some steady work. Also will be doing DroneBase work, not a lot of money to be made there, but experience is experience.

I also suspect that I'll get IT work from time to time since that's where I came from and am typically helping people with those issues anyway. I'll post updates as I go along if people are interested.

jamesleecoleman

Thats awesome!!!

Congratulations!

TechGromit

Watch out for Hawks and Bald Eagles. They see drones as potential competition and will attack. Just takes a good hit from an attaching bird and your pricey drone is scrap when it crashes into the ground.

--chris--

Very cool man! Congrats! I read up on this awhile back, it seemed like a fun way to make a few extra bones. Has it progressed beyond that?

Nyblizzard

This sounds super exciting. Thinking of picking it up as a hobby

Bjcheung77

For those that didn't know what LLC stands for, it's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company

LeBroke

And here I thought making gravy-in-a-pack was a worthy accomplishment.

Congrats!

shochan

Yeah, I love those drone races inside of arenas...pretty dang coolio! I heard the DJI drones are pretty solid.

DatabaseHead

Forming an LLC is super simple, I recommend anyone who performs a service do this..... A 5 year old can do it.

@shochan agreed those drivers are incredibly skilled. I used to run RC cars back in the day at over 40 MPH's and it took years to get even half way functional.

UnixGuy

Well done mate!

the_Grinch

TechGromit wrote: »

Watch out for Hawks and Bald Eagles. They see drones as potential competition and will attack. Just takes a good hit from an attaching bird and your pricey drone is scrap when it crashes into the ground.

Really funny that you said this! When I was going through training there were a bunch of large birds flying in the area. I wasn't really close to them, they were probably at about 200 feet or so and I was at about 100 feet. But low and behold down they swoop at me! After two tried the whole flock flew away and then landed. I suspect that fact that I didn't move (I was stunned that it was happening) is why they took off, but definitely taught me a lesson!

the_Grinch

Thanks all!

As far as how much you can make it really does depend. For DroneBase it appears to be about $25 per job completed and results accepted by them. I haven't done one yet, but my understanding is typically they don't reject what you submit. At the same time you won't get paid unless they can sell the pictures. Once you prove yourself a bit if they get a request for pictures and you're in the area typically (or can get there) they pay a lot. It appears this can be rare though so I wouldn't bank on it. Also you are on your own for insurance and that wouldn't be a risk I'd want to take. Thus you figure $1300 for a drone and between $600 to $800 a year for insurance. There is a company that offers insurance for the hour you are working, but it runs about $10. Factor in your gas, drone and insurance...probably won't make a living with DroneBase.

If your willing to hunt for your own business then that is where you will make money. The market seems pretty open at this point and I've seen prices range between $350 to $1000 for 10 to 15 photos and a one minute video. When I brought up the idea of drones for real estate in Feb to a buddy of mine who is an agent he sorta laughed and said he hadn't heard about people wanting drone photos of real estate. Fast forward to two weeks ago and he's asking if I was up and running because he had a friend who was looking for someone.

As for establishing an LLC, DatabaseHead is very correct a five year old could set one up. Without having any background in it, a little research and probably an hour of your time would be all it takes. That said you will definitely want to be careful. Every state has different laws/regulations in regards to LLC's and you'll want to review them. Why? Because your beholden to those laws/regulations. As with a lot of legal items most states use a standard for their LLC laws with just some subtle tweaks. Where all this comes in is if you lack an operating agreement. Your operating agreement can allow you to set the terms on how your LLC operates. Without it you are stuck with whatever the LLC laws and regs in your state say. This truly probably only effects you if you have more than a single member, but I still drafted an operating agreement because one never knows. The last thing you want is for something to go wrong, lack an operating agreement and end up doing something that allows for the piercing of the veil (legal speak for making you personally responsible instead of having limited liability, which is why you setup the LLC in the first place).

This is not legal advice, just a friendly business heads up!

Dojiscalper

Very nice!! My former boss'es son was working on getting through the drone and private aircraft licensing. I wonder if you can find work on the freelance sites yet?

NotHackingYou

Congratulations! I wish you much success. Please do update this thread as you go - a lot people are cheering for you.

DatabaseHead

NotHackingYou wrote: »

Congratulations! I wish you much success. Please do update this thread as you go - a lot people are cheering for you.

I second.

After rereading my post it was brash. My intent was to inform people it's easy, I've done it. If I can do it you can!

Anyway back to my original point. Keep us posted, this endeavour sounds extremely exciting!

NetworkNewb

Bjcheung77 wrote: »

For those that didn't know what LLC stands for, it's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company

Pretty sure he setup a Lovely Large Couch. Not sure why everyone switched topics to his drone business... But hope the couch works out for you!

the_Grinch

DatabaseHead wrote: »

I second.

After rereading my post it was brash. My intent was to inform people it's easy, I've done it. If I can do it you can!

Anyway back to my original point. Keep us posted, this endeavour sounds extremely exciting!

I didn't find your post to be brash. You were most definitely correct it is a very easy process. I'd counter that my post was not meant to make you believe you were being brash or over simplifying the process. In most cases, as a one man shop, your risk is going to be very low and merely filing the paperwork will be more than adequate. My addition was merely to further some knowledge I had gleaned to others and perhaps foretell any pitfalls that might be encounters.

Again I appreciate the outpouring of support and will definitely keep everyone updated!

Freelancing I believe is going to be the bulk of this business and the industry as a whole. You figure there is a pretty low start up cost:

$150 cost for the exam
$125 (depends on your state) for LLC registering
$30 a month for mailbox (again depends on where you go)
$600 to $800 for drone insurance
$1600 for drone and extra batteries
$60 to $100 a month for cell phone (needed for drone and business)

$3000 gets you started and depending on how many jobs you can get going I suspect you could make that back within a few months. I figure the following industries will be wanting drones to assist in their work:

Real estate - pictures and films of properties to be sold

Insurance - I've heard that tow trucks in a state started carrying drones to take pictures of accidents prior to the removal of the vehicles and selling that footage to the insurance companies

Inspections - powerlines, towers, fields, basically anything a helicopter was used for previously

Deliveries - this part is a bit sketchy for right now as the FAA needs to make some changes to make it viable and there needs to be some advances in tech, but as of right now the regulations do allow for deliveries

And I'm probably missing somethings. As previously stated, DroneBase is basically the Uber of drone photography.

TechGromit

the_Grinch wrote: »

$150 cost for the exam
$125 (depends on your state) for LLC registering
$30 a month for mailbox (again depends on where you go)
$600 to $800 for drone insurance
$1600 for drone and extra batteries
$60 to $100 a month for cell phone (needed for drone and business)

$3000 gets you started and depending on how many jobs you can get going I suspect you could make that back within a few months.

While I think drones are pretty neat, I do feel they can be misused for invasion of privacy. Kinda gives me a great idea for business of my own. Get a Falcon and train them to attack drones in the sky. Sell my services to people who hate drones.

$1,600 to buy a drone.

The look when my falcon attacks and destroys your drone in the sky, Priceless.

the_Grinch

TechGromit wrote: »

While I think drones are pretty neat, I do feel they can be misused for invasion of privacy. Kinda gives me a great idea for business of my own. Get a Falcon and train them to attack drones in the sky. Sell my services to people who hate drones.

$1,600 to buy a drone.

The look when my falcon attacks and destroys your drone in the sky, Priceless.

There are definitely privacy concerns and they should be addressed. But in regards to your falcon, been tried and found not to be viable. Obviously the government has a vested interest in finding means by which to defeat drones. They have tested falcons and found that if they aren't hungry they won't attack them. Or if they just don't plain feel like doing it. Spend you time, money and effort developing a technology driven method (that doesn't break the law) to takedown drones and you'll have no issues getting customers.

On the flip side any helicopter or plane can fly over your home and do whatever it likes. Google Earth is taking pictures and while they are a bit behind fact is they are looking into your backyard with ease. Obviously drones are real time and can definitely look into your windows, but I don't see them being any more invasive than other technologies currently available. On the legal end, at the very least, you are covered up to 83 feet. Whether your local police department knows that or cares would be an entirely different story.

jibtech

the_Grinch wrote: »

On the legal end, at the very least, you are covered up to 83 feet. Whether your local police department knows that or cares would be an entirely different story.

I believe US v Causby set the limit at 365 feet, not 83 feet. No recompense was ordered below 83 feet, as no flights had occurred at those levels. The court did decide that flights above 365 feet were permissible given the public right of air transit.

That said, the courts have frequently sided with the landowner, declaring that flights below 500 feet constituted interference with the landowner.

Side note: I race sailboats offshore, and there are three pilots on board who love to discuss this at length. One of those pilots was also involved in the NASA project to identify appropriate separation schemes for UAVs. I am not an expert, but I have been forced to spend several days in close proximity with people who are.

NetworkNewb

I definitely think it is annoying when my neighbor flies their drone over my house... The only reason they are more invasive in my opinion is because I know it is someone just messing around with a drone for fun over my house and they fly alot closer than any plane or helicopter ever would.

Pretty sure there are signal jammers that people are able to make to take em down. But they may also be illegal if you get caught with one... Doesn't bother me enough to actually try to take the drone down though.

the_Grinch

jibtech wrote: »

I believe US v Causby set the limit at 365 feet, not 83 feet. No recompense was ordered below 83 feet, as no flights had occurred at those levels. The court did decide that flights above 365 feet were permissible given the public right of air transit.

That said, the courts have frequently sided with the landowner, declaring that flights below 500 feet constituted interference with the landowner.

Side note: I race sailboats offshore, and there are three pilots on board who love to discuss this at length. One of those pilots was also involved in the NASA project to identify appropriate separation schemes for UAVs. I am not an expert, but I have been forced to spend several days in close proximity with people who are.

I haven't seen a court going with the limit at 365 feet and you'll see this case referenced often. I've done a lot of research in regards to the airspace topic and have discussed it with many attorney's. General consensus, for now, is that above 83 feet is allowable or at least is a grey area until more precedent is set (which for sure you are going to see). Interpretation of the Causby case, for now, has been at 84 feet and above pilots are good to go.

Really amazing thing is, if the government had just paid the man for his chickens and not annoyed him with night flights, we'd be in a different place.

the_Grinch

NetworkNewb wrote: »

I definitely think it is annoying when my neighbor flies their drone over my house... The only reason they are more invasive in my opinion is because I know it is someone just messing around with a drone for fun over my house and they fly alot closer than any plane or helicopter ever would.

Pretty sure there are signal jammers that people are able to make to take em down. But they may also be illegal if you get caught with one... Doesn't bother me enough to actually try to take the drone down though.

This is where hobbyist will kill it for the commercial guys. Or you will find that government coming down harder on the hobbyist. Staying as far as possible from neighbor's property is my number one goal (when working or just flying for fun). Don't want to damage their property, hurt people or damage my drone. Zoom is your friend So I definitely see your frustration!

TechGromit

jibtech wrote: »

I believe US v Causby set the limit at 365 feet, not 83 feet. No recompense was ordered below 83 feet, as no flights had occurred at those levels. The court did decide that flights above 365 feet were permissible given the public right of air transit.

That said, the courts have frequently sided with the landowner, declaring that flights below 500 feet constituted interference with the landowner.

LOL, FAA rules state you can't fly over 400 feet and local laws say you can't fly under 385. Good luck keeping you drone in that 15 feet sweet spot.

the_Grinch

TechGromit wrote: »

LOL, FAA rules state you can't fly over 400 feet and local laws say you can't fly under 385. Good luck keeping you drone in that 15 feet sweet spot.

Ha, you are definitely 100% correct about that! There have been towns that have said you can't fly below 500 feet. I do know there is at least one case in the courts due to a town making that specification (no below 500 feet). This is why I am fighting for people being responsible and for lawmakers to also be responsible. We do need laws and regulations, but not ones that crush an entire industry. There is definitely a happy medium that can be reached to make lawmakers, pilots and the public "happyish".

On a different note I've already received two requests for work to be done! Don't have a drone yet, but hoping to fix that very soon!

eric.thomas

What drones are you looking at??

the_Grinch

Trained on a Mavic Pro and that's what I am going to buy.

the_Grinch

Lots of great news today! First, I purchased my drone. I financed, though I am pretty sure I'll have about 90% of the cost already. All told: $1600 for the drone, insurance (just on the drone), two extra batteries, extra propellers, charger for all batteries, a car charger (which I found doesn't work) and a bag. Extra propellers are definitely a must as in training I turned on Speed Mode (which disables the safety features) and crashed. Overall the drone handled it well, I sort of glided into the ground, but two of the propellers chipped. It still flew, though it wobbled for a bit, but I changed them out anyway.

The other good news is a friend, who is a real estate agent, spoke to his team lead and she is interested in getting photos of their properties. They are a decent sized firm so I think I have a great shot at a steady stream of income. I'm also toying with the idea of discounting my rate as I suspect I'll be getting a fair amount of business from them. I did some test shots of my sister's house and felt like overall it went well. My phone typically crashes with video and that caused me to have about 45 seconds of the drone just hanging in the backyard. I did order a business phone though which should be much better with the DJI app.

So far so good! I still have to get two jobs done, but just waiting on my drone.

the_Grinch

Got my first paying gig! A friend is a photographer and the couple wants drone footage of their wedding. It just so happens that the venue is right by my house. The interesting thing is the venue was trying to argue that due to the near by airport that a drone couldn't fly there. My buddy explained that I was a licensed drone pilot and would know where I could or couldn't fly. Now, since the venue is in my town, I knew I could fly there (especially since I actually live closer to the airport than the venue is). I did go over and confirm on the maps that I was good to go just to ensure what I already knew.

Also, I just upgraded my propellers to the low noice one's DJI just released. Definitely reduces the noice, though if they weren't so cheap I probably would advise against them.

NetworkNewb

Now just don't screw up your first gig!! no pressure!!

(congrats too!)