Budget for SANS OnDemand out of pocket (no employer reimburse) How to do it

Hey all

So after taking my GPEN (without taking SANS training) and doing my GCIH now, I really want to take a SANS course to see what it is all about. That said, I am looking at either SANS 542 or SANS 660 for my course once I save up money and pay off my credit cards! That said, since an average SANS course is around $6k easy, how do you other IT pros who have paid for a SANS course out of pocket still manage to survive and live a comfortable lifestyle? Working entry level really sucks because they won't invest the money into you (at least where I work they don't).

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cyberguypr

Work Study program. $1,100 (changes a bit when courses go up). You get the physical class, books, mp3s, the On Demand version for 3 months, and the exam for one single price. I've done it five times, two of those self- funded. Best $$ I've spent in training.

jamesleecoleman

Save money and budget.

I plan on saving money and trying to stay hard core in my budget. I don't think I would qualify for work study.

cyberguypr

What makes you think you don't qualify?

docrice

In my earlier years, I paid much of it out of my own pocket. This was after a decade being in the general industry. This includes SEC502, 503, 504, FOR408, and possibly one other. My current and previous employers have sponsored a few.

My strategy - save up. I've sacrificed a lot elsewhere in life so I can afford training. There's also the GIAC cert renewals that come up periodically and since I hold 10 of them so far, those renewals are becoming frequent enough that going for the GSE is more justified considering the overall expense.

jamesleecoleman

I had checked the requirements a few years ago and there was something in there that I felt like wouldn't allow me to apply. So after that I haven't checked it out.

I just looked at it and I'm good. So I'll be saving money for it then.

TechGromit

kMastaFlash wrote: »

That said, since an average SANS course is around $6k easy, how do you other IT pros who have paid for a SANS course out of pocket still manage to survive and live a comfortable lifestyle? Working entry level really sucks because they won't invest the money into you (at least where I work they don't).

I guess you need to take a good look at cost vs reward. If you can land a better paying job because you have the Gxxx certification on your resume, it's money well spent. But if you want it to add to your resume and getting it probably isn't going to get you a better paying position, then it's probably not worth the sacrifice. I know if you want to work on Washington DC area, government contracting positions are big of GIAC certifications, pretty much anything you get is going to be a plus on your resume, but other areas of the country, especially jobs not government related, GIAC certs do not hold as much weight, but that's slowly changing.

jamesleecoleman wrote: »

I just looked at it and I'm good. So I'll be saving money for it then.

Good luck, Work study is getting very competitive. It's almost winning the lottery to get selected, but I've read people with no SANS course or GIAC certifications getting selected, and others with lots of both getting selected. Unless you can get an instructor recommendation, chances of getting selected are not good.

xxxkaliboyxxx

TechGromit wrote: »

Good luck, Work study is getting very competitive. It's almost winning the lottery to get selected, but I've read people with no SANS course or GIAC certifications getting selected, and others with lots of both getting selected. Unless you can get an instructor recommendation, chances of getting selected are not good.

I was one of those guys this year. No prior SANS courses or GIAC certs and got selected for 504 as a fill in. I'm actually taking my exam Tuesday. With that said, I got selected for 301 and turned it down, I'm pretty sure I'm blacklisted now.

Also to the OP, what about making a compromised with your job and going half and half or at least asking to take the boot camp and still get paid as a training code?

JoJoCal19

xxxkaliboyxxx wrote: »

I got selected for 301 and turned it down, I'm pretty sure I'm blacklisted now.

Pfffft it will take more than that to get blacklisted. I'm positive I am now. Had to drop out and get my employer refunded a Work Study fee for SANS Security East 2016 because I got a new job and was about to put in notice, then I had to withdraw from SANS 2016 (I was slotted for but not officially notified yet) when I started that new job because the guy who got me the job said it might not be looked at favorably taking a week off after being on the job one month (hindsight I should have went), and then that August I got selected for SANS Virginia Beach 2016 and notified with 10 days notice and had to decline. Pretty sure that bridge is way past burnt. Since then, I had one of my apps I wasn't selected for (SANS 2017), and I have Virginia Beach 2017 I'm waiting for.

TechGromit

xxxkaliboyxxx wrote: »

I was one of those guys this year. No prior SANS courses or GIAC certs and got selected for 504 as a fill in. I'm actually taking my exam Tuesday. With that said, I got selected for 301 and turned it down, I'm pretty sure I'm blacklisted now.

Interesting dilemma. You know I'd more than happy to do a work study for 301 if they gave me the course materials for another course I really wanted, but I don't think it works that way. I might even do it if they promised me a work study for a course I really wanted in the future, but I doubt you can bargain with SANS. I guess the only way I'd agree to do a 301 work study is if in the future, my employer will not pay for me to take any more SANS courses and my certifications were up for renewal. This way with a 301 work study I'd get the course credits to renew one Certification and pass the exam to renew the other one.

Cuse0311

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

Pfffft it will take more than that to get blacklisted. I'm positive I am now. Had to drop out and get my employer refunded a Work Study fee for SANS Security East 2016 because I got a new job and was about to put in notice, then I had to withdraw from SANS 2016 (I was slotted for but not officially notified yet) when I started that new job because the guy who got me the job said it might not be looked at favorably taking a week off after being on the job one month (hindsight I should have went), and then that August I got selected for SANS Virginia Beach 2016 and notified with 10 days notice and had to decline. Pretty sure that bridge is way past burnt. Since then, I had one of my apps I wasn't selected for (SANS 2017), and I have Virginia Beach 2017 I'm waiting for.

How long after you put in an application does it take to hear back?

JoJoCal19

Cuse0311 wrote: »

How long after you put in an application does it take to hear back?

It's not a question of how much time after the app until you hear back, but how long before the event you hear back. After you apply it says it could be 4-6 weeks before the event. The issue is last year and maybe part of this year, they were notifying folks (myself included) like 10-14 days beforehand. I'm not sure if they've gotten their situation fixed or not.

wolf9081

I just got selected for SANS Security Awareness in Nashville with only about 2 weeks notice. Since I just started a new position a month ago, I respectfully declined. But I was able to recommend someone in my office for it and they are doing SEC566. Apparently, they are having a hard time filling the work-study positions for this summit.

TechGromit

That will be my strategy when I apply for a work study, be very flexible location wise. If I have to pay for hotel and meals, how much really does a plane flight cost? $500 max?

Danielm7

TechGromit wrote: »

That will be my strategy when I apply for a work study, be very flexible location wise. If I have to pay for hotel and meals, how much really does a plane flight cost? $500 max?

Even if it is $500, you've got at least 5 nights at a hotel, which depending on the area might be 500-1000+ easily. Then food, which sure, you'd be eating at home anyway but you likely wouldn't be going out every meal, so possibly a couple hundred there, plus the $1100 work study cost, it'll add up really quickly, especially if you don't get picked for the course you REALLY wanted vs one they just needed to fill.

My concern right now, I'm applying again for one that is the next state over, I can drive, family is nearby to crash but if I get something like CISSP prep or one of the other courses I don't need, the company will still reimburse but they'll probably shoot me down for any other training for the next year+ because of it.

TechGromit

Danielm7 wrote: »

Even if it is $500, you've got at least 5 nights at a hotel, which depending on the area might be 500-1000+ easily.

My point was I'll be staying at the hotel anyway, so I already factoring those costs in. Yes the ideal work study is in the city you live in, so you just commute daily to the SANS event, but other than one Philadelphia event they had last year (and didn't repeat this year), no matter where it is, I'll have to get a hotel anyway, so the additional cost of a flight is negligible in the grand scheme of things. I guess the ideal event for me would be at a Hilton Hotel, I have enough Hilton points to get 3 or 4 days free, that would certainly help. I plan on hitting up work to see if they will pick up the expenses (including the work study costs), it's fairly cheap, even Global Knowledge courses they pay for are at least 2k with their discount.

This year it's a moot point. Work paid for SansFire 2017, which is in 2 weeks.

Danielm7 wrote: »

... you've got at least 5 nights at a hotel...

Actually it's more like 7, you have to get there the day before the event to unpack and help set up, and 6 days of classes. If you travel a lot for work, you could try and use venues where you have hotel reward points. For example The event in Virginia Beach is at the Hilton Virginia Beach Oceanfront, at 57,000 points a night, I could get 5 days free with the number of points I have. Or the event in Chicago, Palmer House Hilton at 46,000 points a night, I could stay 6 nights free. Fortunately SANS don't appear to be loyal to any one specific hotel chain brand, so there should be a brand that you have points in if you travel for work. So shop around, look for the best value for the points you have for the different SANS events available.