IT Title Change and Future

Shecky · January 2013

Hi guys!

I started working at my company around 2007 as an IT Assistant title. I'm currently still working at the same company with the same title. About a dollar or so pay raise within the 5+ years I've worked here. Make about 25k a year after-taxes. During those 5 years, I've obtained some certifications. Here's a few to list: MCITP: EA, MCSE: S, MCSA: S, CISSP, CEH, Security+, and others. I have also received a ton of information here about WGU and ended up enrolling and graduating around 2011. Got my Bacherlors degree in Networks Design and Management. No pay raise there either, unfortunately. Now, it's the new year and I'm really looking for a change. This was my first and only IT job. And within those 5+ years, I've learned a ton and actually manage 20 office branches' servers, about 400 workstations, laptops, mobile tablets, etc. Pretty much a jack of all trades IT person. Now that I'm looking for another opportunity elsewhere, I don't think I can get anywhere with an IT Assistant title, much less salary wise. Before I leave, I was hoping to have my title changed, but I'm not sure if they would go for it. I was thinking along the lines of 'Systems Administrator'. What do you guys think?

Thanks so much!

lsud00d · January 2013

Dang...where are you located? On the surface you should be in the $50-70k range somewhere else, it's a new year so quit wasting your potential!

thegoodbye · January 2013

You've obtained the MCITP: EA, MCSE: S, MCSA: S, CISSP, CEH, Security+, and you only make 25 - 30k? Leave now and don't look back. Don't worry about the title. Put your resume out there and watch the fishies bite. I don't know where you physically reside, but if you were able to move, you could potentially expect a lot more... easily double or triple your salary.

Essendon · January 2013

Damn man, thats seriously underpaid for all the certs and experience you have. I know location may be a factor but $25k a year is underpaid anywhere. As for change of titles, it sure wouldnt hurt to ask. Hell, maybe not ask but really demand. You do all that work, have all those certs and still an IT Assistant! Maybe print out some job ads from around the area and show them the job titles, though that may give them wind of you thinking of jumping ship. Reassure them your not looking for a new job and that the print-outs are just there to support your statement. Feel for you bud, hope it pans out well.

Shecky · January 2013

@lsud00d: Los Angeles. That's exactly how I've been feeling. I felt like I've been wasting my potential for years, sadly..

@thegoodbye: Pretty much. Well, the thing that I'm worried about is that I won't be able to fetch a proper salary with an IT Assistant title. They'll just put me in another position that offers the same amount of money. Heck, I even applied for an IT Consultant position and told them how much I was making. They said I was a great candidate for the position, however, the starting salary (70k) was way over my current salary. They could not justify the salary jump, even though I was fully qualified and had the experience and skills to do the job.

@Essendon: Yeah, now that I'm thinking of getting my Masters degree in Information Security, I'll need extra money to help fund my schooling. And my pay is just not enough for living expenses, school payments, car expenses, etc. That's what I'm thinking of doing. But at this point, I just want a title change before I leave. Hopefully they can at least give me that so it can open a few doors for me when I start applying for other positions.

thegoodbye · January 2013

Do not tell any future job prospects how much you make currently. They will use that against you. As a hiring manager, if I saw your resume and you told me your current salary, I wouldn't hire you. Why? Because I'd think something is wrong with you to have such advanced certifications and to stay at your current role/salary amount for so long without moving on. Harsh? Yes, but I just asked a few colleagues and they all had the same opinion.

Be confident without lying about how much you make. You can easily deflect the money question and turn it into, "I'm looking for a challenging position that matches with my skills in the range of xxx - xxx."

Essendon · January 2013

thegoodbye wrote: »

Do not tell any future job prospects how much you make currently.

Excellent point and if they insist of you telling them your current salary, ensure have a figure in mind that's comparable with the kind that's offered in your area. Seriously underpaid man, seriously.

ptilsen · January 2013

I am in agreement with others. You should be making three times what you to, certainly no less than twice that. I would also not hire you if you told me you made that much. If I did decide to hire you, it would be for something below what I assume your skillset is, and certainly for less money than you deserve.

My advice in this circumstance is to either refuse to answer the salary question or to lie, if you're asked by a prospective employer. Believe me, I don't normally advise that, but in your case I really think it is better than telling the truth. Honestly (so to speak), I would probably lie about the job title, too. I think the chances of an employer hiring you for what you're worth, then checking on those two items and deciding not to hire you are far less likely than an employer being unwilling to hire you for what you're worth at all based on your title and salary.

I normally think that 100% honesty is the best call for an interview, but I truly think your current salary will wreck your chances if you tell it. I'm still kind of in shock that you have those certs and that salary. $250K would be less shocking than $25K.

Oh, I would also ask your current employer for a raise and a job title bump, even though you plan to quit. It's long overdue, and even a week or three of extra salary is a nice bump.

Essendon · January 2013

I'd have suggested lying too, but didnt for the risk of getting flamed! (especially by the likes of Plantwiz)

Shecky · January 2013

@thegoodbye: That's EXACTLY what the hiring manager did! He asked me why I was still staying at my current job for that amount for money and why I haven't moved on yet. I told him because I needed a stable position to help pay for my student loans (BA @ WGU) at the time. And now, you're asking me why I haven't moved on? Why I'm not bettering myself? I'm here talking with you right now, aren't I? To move on and find a better opportunity? Come on. Of course, they did offer to pay me lower than all the other consultants if I considered joining their team, which made no sense whatsoever considering I'm doing the same amount of work for less pay than everyone else.

Thanks! I'll give that a try. But, how do you deflect the money question on those companies that require salary history? Or those company websites that require you put down your salary?

@Essendon: I've done that. But the problem is, my salary's not comparable with other positions in my area. A general PC technician makes 40k a year. And they don't even work on production servers! I have a figure in mind, but to them, what would justify, say for example, 60k for an IT Assistant? I think I really need a title change in order to be asking for those kinds of salary figures. It just sounds rediculous. Oh, and good luck on your cloud exam tomorrow!

@ptilsen: So, if the company I'm applying for wanted an exact figure, what do I say? I don't want to lie about how much I make. I can try deflecting the question as thegoodbye had suggested, but sometimes people just want a straight answer. And you're right, the consulting company I had applied to previously wanted to pay me way less than what I deserved and for doing the same amount of work as the other consultants. It's disheartening. Really disheartening.. What if the company was to call my current employer to verify my title and salary? They would catch me in a lie right then and there. Even if my employer doesn't give out my salary information, they still have the right to verify my job title. I haven't really thought about the situation this much considering lifes daily trials and tribulations. It's a new year, and I just want to exert my potential, rather than waste it and become defunct. The raise I received from last year was taken away with the new fiscal cliff tax rates of 2013. It's as if I never got a raise. It wouldn't have mattered so much, though. It was only a couple of cents. I don't even think they'll budge on the salary raise. But I'll ask about a title change. At the very least, I hope I can get this changed. It's been long overdue, indeed..

lsud00d · January 2013

Wait--you did say $25k after taxes, so you're currently around $33-34k? Even this is still severely underpaid but obviously not as jaw dropping as $25k...

If asked in an interview and you can't deflect, I would say you make $45k and I would put your range at $60-65k, IF your skillset matches your nice list of certifications.

thegoodbye · January 2013

Don't lie. Never lie. It will come back to bite you. Company's may call to verify your employment, but it's more rare for them to verify salary. Take a look at this guide for strategies to this question - What to Say When the Interviewer Asks How Much You Make - On Careers (usnews.com)

Essendon · January 2013

Isnt salary information confidential for privacy reasons in the US? I'd think it is, over here prospective employers cannot ask or will not be told how much you currently make.

thegoodbye · January 2013

You can refuse to specify your salary for confidentiality reasons, but I don't see anything illegal about an employer asking the question.

ajs1976 · January 2013

I wouldn't lie. Might be a reason for a new employer to fire you later.

If you can avoid answering the salary question, do it. If not try to give them a preferred range try that.

I'm finding that a lot of companies have HR rules that prevent giving you to much of an increase over what your previously position. Sometimes for both internal or external jobs.

I was recently told to look for increases in the 10-15% range.

Unfortunately, to get to what you should be making, you may have to jumps a couple of times. Get a new job with a increase and move on in a year for another increase then in a year move again.

I wouldn't go for the masters, it might make it look even worse.

petedude · January 2013

thegoodbye wrote: »

You've obtained the MCITP: EA, MCSE: S, MCSA: S, CISSP, CEH, Security+, and you only make 25 - 30k? Leave now and don't look back. Don't worry about the title. Put your resume out there and watch the fishies bite. I don't know where you physically reside, but if you were able to move, you could potentially expect a lot more... easily double or triple your salary.

Amen to this. If they're telling you they can't justify a jump in salary, try to negotiate a middle number.

Shecky · January 2013

@lsud00d: Yes, that's correct. So, I would have to lie to get what I want then? I feel pretty uneasy about this. And as I tell everyone else, those certifications come from a cereal box. I can show you what I can do rather than showing you pieces of paper.

@thegoodbye: How do you specifically suggest I get around this? If I'm honest, I won't get the salary I'm hoping for/deserve. If I lie, I'm digging myself in a proverbial hole. Either way, I'm screwed. The only way for me to get where I want to be job wise/salary wise is to jump around and work for another 10 years? Thanks for the link. Reading up on it now.

@ajs1976: What do you suggest is a "preferred range"? You're right about the HR rules. That's why If I switch to another position, maybe I'll get up to 27.5k or something. Still undervalued and underpaid. Shaking my head...

So, work for another 10 years and make the same amount as college graduates make two years after graduation?

Masters might make my situation look worse? Please tell.

Thanks for chiming in as well. Just trying to get some POV's from everyone.

@petedude: What do you suggest is a middle number? And it seems unfair to be doing the same amount of work as everyone who gets paid more than me. EDIT: Your sig makes a lot of sense. That's basically me. How unfortunate. Haha!

lsud00d · January 2013

The bottom line is this:

1.) Future employers have no legal way of knowing what you end up making at your last job
2.) If you're not comfortable saying (or bluffing) how much you make during negotiations, then don't do it.
3.) Realize your salary is like the show Pawn Stars...they want to pay you the least amount possible, so bluffing *is* a viable tactic in salary negotiations in you're current situation if #2 falls through (again see #1)
4.) Again, on the surface, you are worth much more than what you are making so whatever it takes to get YOU the most money, do it. If you perform awesome at the new job, nobody will ever second guess you

IMHO bluffing your salary in an interview (which is 100% avoidable) is a card in your hand that should not make you lose sleep at night

boredgamelad · January 2013

There's no rule that says if you want to make 70k, you have to have been making 60k at your last job and 45k your last job before that and 30k before that. If you're worth it, you're worth it. Just because previous employers didn't see that doesn't mean prospective ones won't.

the_Grinch · January 2013

Now more then every job duties trump the title. I was a NOC/Helpdesk Tech at my last job, but I was doing System Admin/Engineering work. All the jobs I've applied for and gotten interviews for saw the duties and that was how I got the interview. Most companies know that IT job titles don't mean a whole lot anymore. Just list your duties, certs, and education you'll be fine. I also find it very rare that anyone asks what you currently make. I've only been asked once in almost four years of fulltime IT work.

forestgiant · January 2013

OP, kudos from a fellow WGU graduate!

Lots of good advice here for you, so I won't add another, but I wanted to share with you this story about how winning attitude can potentially take you farther than exaggerated job titles.

You appear a down to earth honest guy, so that's a very valuable asset. You are disciplined and hardworking so don't let a few "they" naysayers recruiters/hiring managers/sat-on-their-asses-all-day tell you what you are truly worth, especially in a large market like LA.

odysseyelite · January 2013

When they ask you about salary, tell them you currently have a NDA. That has always stopped them, sometimes they will ask the range but not ofthen and go straight to what I am looking for.

petedude · January 2013

@Shecky: If you really want the gig, and they won't offer you an advertised 60-70, ask if you could start out at 45-55. The way I see it, just about anything is a step up from where you're at right now. You could even check advertised averages for the post in question and tell them "I understand the low end of the national salary range is X, would that be a number you could work with?" or some such.

RoyalRaven · January 2013

You haven't wasted any time where you've been for the last 5, if anything, from what I gathered, you're doing more than most IT tech persons I know. Do whatever you can to go elsewhere. Reading that salary is a complete shocker.

With the resume, I'm going to suggest some good info I just got from a very successful IT person in regards to presentation...stick the title at the very end of your "experience" section and put all of the skills above it...like a menu for future employers to pick from. Downplay that title where you can if it's a sticking point. Just explain it when it comes up, but don't give it the spotlight. In the end titles are just that...in other words, just show what you can do. You'll get paid what you are worth then.

About7Narwhal · January 2013

FYI, your previous employer is only allowed to provide title and dates of employment. All other information is considered confidential and could be worthy of a lawsuit if they provide it and you can prove it cost you a job. At least that is how it is in Tennessee.

Iristheangel · January 2013

Shecky wrote: »

@lsud00d: Los Angeles. That's exactly how I've been feeling. I felt like I've been wasting my potential for years, sadly..

How do you live in Los Angeles and NOT be making more? I've heard of loyalty to your job but this is plain ridiculous. The first thing you should have done when the second year went by was to put your resume online and jumped ship at the first opportunity possible. I live in the same area as you and haven't actively looked for a job since August of last year but that doesn't stop me from getting at least 3 e-mails a day and 1-2 calls a day from various recruiters that saw my resume on Dice, Indeed, Hotjobs, Monster, etc. If you put your resume out there and aren't getting similar amounts of bites (even without actively applying for something) in THIS area, then you should probably post your resume and let us work some magic on it. It doesn't matter what your current title is. What matters is your job duties that you've performed, your certifications, and your education.

Also, as a rule of thumb, if you are not in the position you want to ultimately end up in or getting paid close to what you feel you are worth, you should NEVER stay longer than 2 years. At the 2 year mark, if they haven't promoted you or given you a decent raise, they aren't going to.

IT Title Change and Future

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