Anyone in here have an Air Force/military back ground?

taylorb91 · June 2015

Hello all, recently I have been realizing how limited of a market Las Vegas is to gain that vital experience to become a network/systems administrator, and have really been thinking about joining the military, specifically Air Force, and hopefully getting a job as a network engineer or systems admin to gain that experience. I would not be wasting my time while in, I would go for a degree and come out with certifications as well

Anyone have experience with Air Force or military in general? and What can you say about the experience you gained in this field while in? Is it worth it? Could you saw you owe your military experience to what you do as a civilian?

Any feedback would be appreciated!!

taylorb91 · June 2015

no one??

Phileeeeeeep651 · June 2015

I wouldn't trade my service time for anything in the world. It wasn't until I was in the Navy that I had any real interest in working in IT.

I will say this however, I was never just given the reins to any system or equipment, I had to work extremely hard and bust my ass just to be able to get CLI access to my ships routers. Not sure how things work in the Air Force but I would imagine it's similar. Just realize that you'll have to come in and do lower level jobs before you can do network admin/engineer roles, just as you would in the civilian world.

Was my Navy experience worth it? Of course, I'd do it again if I had to. I wouldn't say that with my current position I'd owe it to my military experience but it definitely helped while transitioning into the civilian IT market.

billoreilly · June 2015

The Air Force is a great way to get training and experience. I was stationed there at Nellis as a sys admin and my skills transferred right into a contracting job. Its the best decision I have ever made.

If you are serious about entering the Air Force then you should try and get a guaranteed job. Take the ASVAB and score high enough to meet the 3DXXX career field. Let the recruiter know that you want a guaranteed job or you wont join.

You can wiki the 3DXXX jobs and choose which one. I enlisted in 2001 and I was able to choose my job prior to signing the dotted line. Hopefully its still possible.

TranceSoulBrother · June 2015

I.T in the Army is a totally different animal than being an I.T guy on the outside.
First off, you are a Soldier (or a Sailor or an Airman....), so you will split your daily schedule between a thousand tasks, meaning, don't fool yourself in thinking that you will in the military, have a drill sergeant yell at you for some months, get to a unit, then be given free reign to a NOC with all kinds of routers or whatever.
Depending on your MOS (job), you will not see any routers/switches/cables or whatever because all that is contracted out to civilians or veterans. My Soldiers can't even create a user account without submitting a trouble/work ticket. You have to have an admin account to be able to do basic tech support stuff like joing a computer to the domain or whatever. Some know how to do that, but you have to a) comply with the DoD 8570 for baseline certs b) have training/admin access and that's reserved to the contractors on almost every base now.
You will receive some training, you will do some stuff if you stay in, but remember when I said that you have to split your day? You will be a Soldier, subject to physical training in the morning, various formations/taskings during the day, occasional vehicle/weapon maintenance, other training in the field that will keep you away from your books and certs. BUT....you can have time on your own to study and cert up, or there are opportunities to obtain them through unit funded classes, for example, I just got one of my Soldiers today in a 2 month training program with the local technical community college where he will get his A+/Sec+/CCNA. Some of my other guys got to be in a week long bootcamp to get their Sec+ or Net+. One of them even received his CEHv8 last year. Stuff like that can happen, depending on the unit.
Mind you, the military experience/training in addition to the certs can help tremendously. One of my Soldiers just got out last year with 5 years of military experience, A+/Net+/Sec+ and he's down in Atlanta now earning $85,000 for his first civilian job.
The rest of it is hard work like with everything else. For example, it's 9pm and I'm sitting in a bloody McD starting my study journey for CISSP. You gotta make trade offs in life.

Phileeeeeeep651 · June 2015

TranceSoulBrother is totally spot on. Not that you assume this but realize the military won't be a cake walk. You'll be pulled in 100 different directions all in one day. That's the nature of the beast, but if you work hard, know your job, and can deal with the other bs you'll do great. Just make sure you join the military because you want to join the military, all the training and benefits come second. You'll be a Airman, Soldier, Sailor or Marine first and whatever your job is second.

taylorb91 · June 2015

Air Force is something I've always thought about since I was in highschool, and I know it wouldn't be a cake walk. But really, all of that admin stuff is contracted out now days?? so then what do IT guys actually do in the military?? I've been reading up on 3d0x2 in the Air Force and it seems like they are trained to do system/network administration type work, so where does that put them now?
I would have no problem being an Airmen first, and my job second, but not being able to do what I know I would love at all just sounds depressing.
How did he land a high paying job with just certs and no experience if all of that is a no no and just for civilians to do?

taylorb91 · June 2015

@billoreilly What years where you stationed at Nellis?? What was your afsc?
I've been researching a lot into 3d0x2, not much information I can find, but what I have found seems like they don't do much in what they learned in tech school?

renacido · June 2015

I am retired from the Air Force, 20 years active duty, was in IT my entire career.

I also worked in a number of Joint (combined Army/Navy/AF/Marine) units and retired from the Joint Staff at the Pentagon. So I got to see how the AF contrasts from the other branches in how we progress and what we can do in IT.

Generally speaking, the Air Force is a great way to obtain IT skills as long as you go into it with a guaranteed job as a 3D0XX (there are several AFSCs in this group but they comprise most of IT) or 1B4XX (cyber defense ops).

Where the services differ from my perspective is that the Navy IT's have a far narrower scope of what they get to do. On a ship since SPAWAR handles the majority of it, and on shore the higher-level engineering and admin work is done by NMCI. Sailors also get stuck doing low-level crap while warrant officers and commissioned officers get the cool jobs (like Cyber Warfare Engineers).

The Army IT guys (MOS 25X) have had a lot of their technical duties carved out into defense contracts or civil service jobs, leaving a lot of 25B's to do tier-1 crap and take care of all the "collateral duties" (property custodians, counting computers, safety, readiness, blah). Even highly skilled and experienced NCO's and SNCOs basically act as "COTARs" basically babysit the contractors doing the cool stuff for twice the salary as the NCO signing off on their performance award.

The Air Force (I know I'm biased but all of this is experience I've had myself) delegates more technical work to enlisted far more than the other services. It is the norm in most places for an NCO in his mid-late 20s working as domain/enterprise admin, managing the core infrastructure, vulnerability scanning a network segment, etc. Junior Airmen will be doing technical work under the supervision of NCOs, actively in training and advancing in proficiency.

This is a cultural difference that sets the AF apart from the other branches. The AF has always been the more technician-oriented, retention-based, career-focused enlisted force of all the branches. In the Navy the officers are gods, the warrants do what they please, the chiefs are the jock fraternity, the Petty Officers are the blue collar workers and the junior sailors are the illegal immigrants picked up in front of Home Depot before they went underway. The Army and AF are more similar to each other except that the Army is much more mechanistic and directive in leadership style, more authoritarian than the AF. The Marines are somewhere between the Navy and Army culturally but will the smallest budget, fewest bodies, and not to forget every Marine's primary job is Rifleman.

I've worked with rock-star genius technicians from all the services, sometimes to my surprise. One of the sharpest and most capable IT guy I worked with was an enlisted Marine who looked like the off-the-shelf standard issue jarhead but the dude knew his stuff. I worked with an Army NCO and several Air Force NCOs who were lights-out awesome, the highly-paid contractors would seek out to troubleshoot or find the root cause of a problem. I worked with a Navy LT who was an IT ninja and also a cool guy (extremely rare combo especially for a Naval Officer). Aaaaaand I worked with plenty of dumbasses and from all the branches too.

I have the utmost respect for all my fellow servicemen of all branches, these are just my observations from my 20 years in uniform FWIW.

taylorb91 · June 2015

Thanks for the response Renacido, Do you know how it is now days in 2015? I would hate to go into the Air Force hoping to get awesome experience as a 3d0x2 in some type of administration position and end up doing help desk type crap for my entire career...
Air force does seem more technically focused which is why I would want to enlist...but if the air force is how Trancesoulbrother says it is for Army then it wouldn't be ideal at all. If that was the case I would try going for something in medicine or something.

renacido · June 2015

I retired in December 2012 so it hasn't been that long.

As a 3D0, what you'll get to do hands-on depends somewhat on literally where you are. Generally you want to be at a NOSC (Network Ops and Security Center), at the MAJCOM or Air Force level because there you have wider variety of positions, and the NOSCs manage the core infrastructure, active directory, and perimeter defense systems. If you are at Wherever AFB (including Nellis) working in a typical Comm Squadron, you will have more limited range of duties, and depending on the base more of less of your colleagues may be civil servants or contractors.

Serving overseas, especially at places where civilian/contractor positions are difficult or expensive to fill (Korea, Okinawa, Turkey, Qatar, etc) you have FAR fewer non-military personnel doing IT, so there you typically have equal or even more opportunities to do the cool technical work than guys at a regional NOSC just because you are cheaper than GS/contractors in those locations.

Not sure what the landscape looks like today for 1B4's, it's a new AFSC that I played a role in developing (the AF was way behind the times in cyber defense until fairly recently, all the services for that matter). I can only imagine that they are consolidated at the MAJCOM/AF NOSC level.

Hope this helps, any other ?'s just ask.

OfWolfAndMan · June 2015

I just recently separated from the Air Force. I was a 3D1X2, basically the closest thing you'll get to a network/long haul circuits type gig. It was great but I have my nitpicks. Mainly an issue with promotion method, people snaking out of PT tests and quarterly awards for the guys who have no time working and all the time to volunteer. 3D0X2 is more of a sys admin job and the duties vary depending on station. 1B4 is a computer hacker for the government type job, and from my talks with these guys, most of them are miserable. I'd make sure you really know you're sure before treking into that realm.

The Air Force does house some of the more technically inclined people, but there are still plenty of special kids to nullify that argument. My outlook is if you don't mind being told what to do, staying fit, going to school, dealing with customers that think they know IT because they browse the Internet, enjoy traveling at a distance for periods of time, and want to learn how a network works from a DoD perspective (And from a more advanced one), the Air Force is a great option.

taylorb91 · June 2015

@OfWolfAndMan staying fit, going to school, dealing with angry people, all sounds alright to me, just not the traveling, but the potential experience outweighs that for me! What type of work did specifically you do as a 3d1x2? Did your skills translate into the working civilian world?

@Renacido Excuse my lack of knowledge but when you say NOSC and MAJCOM are those specific bases where that type of work is mainly done?
I would definitely want to be based where networking/system administration has a strong, strong concentration. seems like that is limited though.

By the way sorry if this isnt the right section to be posting this in lol

renacido · June 2015

3D1X2's aka "Tech Controllers", they administer network infrastructure as in long-haul circuits, MPLS, routers, NIPS, link encryption devices (for tunneling classified networks across long-haul or less-secure paths). Basically network engineers but they also deal with military/gov't specific stuff (bulk crypto devices).

Sorry about the acronym soup.

MAJCOM - Major Command, basically HQ of a major mission area (Air Combat Command, AF Space Command, etc) or overseas theater of operations (US Air Forces Europe, Pacific Air Forces, etc). At the base where headquarters for a MAJCOM resides, there is a MAJCOM NOSC. The highest echelon is Air Forces Cyber (24th AF) at Lackland AFB TX, which is also known as the AFNOSC.

As far as networking and sys admin, you sometimes get to do some of both if you're in the right location but more often 3D1x2's are the network guys and 3D0x2's are the systems guys and 1B4's are the security/infosec guys.

Robertf969 · June 2015

I'm getting out now 25U, which is like the jack of all trades in the Signal Corps of the Army. If I could do it all again I would have gone 25N (Network Nodal Systems tech) or 25B (IT Specialist). But if anything look into 25D which is a new MOS in the Army (Cyber Network Defender) these guys are coming out of the school house with 4-7 SANS certs and they will all make 6 figures the day they step out of the Uniform and into Civilian Clothes.

If you like Security there are options just have to be persistent. If you like Networking I would go Air Force, these guys are not lying when they say our (the Army service members) hands are quite tied with what we are actually allowed to do thanks to all the contractors making the real money.

SaSkiller · June 2015

from my talks with these guys, most of them are miserable. I'd make sure you really know you're sure before treking into that realm.

Why are they miserable? 1B4 is retrain only right?

MrAgent · June 2015

Prior Navy IT here. The only thing I would differently would be to go CTN instead of IT. Security is way more interesting than working in radio/ADP. Though when I joined ITs handled all the security and CTN was not a rate.

jvrlopez · June 2015

I was a 3C0X1/3D0X2 from 2008 through 2012. The training and experience were invaluable and helped me out a lot. If you join the 3D field, you should be mandated to apply for and achieve a Top Secret clearance.

The military was good in regards of work, responsibility, training, and the individuals I worked with.

I didn't like the inane and minuscule regulations that made up a majority of my responsibilities and the bureaucracy in place for decision making, but it's the military and it as a small price to pay.

Blackout · June 2015

The Navy has an excellent Networking program. If you look at the navy side look at the Rate CTN.

bpenn · June 2015

I am in the Air Force Reserve currently and owe a tremendous amount to them for the opportunities I have been given. I only work part-time as an enlisted technician (I am a 3D1X1 - Client Systems Administrator (Help Desk)) and I was able to get a clearance, A+, and numerous other skills. If you dont want to go active duty, the reserve is great way to get the skills you need and serve your country. I plan to stay in at least 20 years (4 years in now).

OfWolfAndMan · June 2015

SaSkiller wrote: »

Why are they miserable? 1B4 is retrain only right?

Yeah it's retrain and some additional requirements such as Cyber experience and a special test, but most of them I've talked to hate their job. Makes sense why it's a in demand career field

networker050184 · June 2015

There are a lot of people in this industry with military backgrounds. It's one of the only ways for a young person to get hands on tech experience, money for a degree and a security clearance to boot. I certainly owe a lot of my success in the civilian world to the foundation set during my time in the military.

billoreilly · June 2015

taylorb91 wrote: »

@billoreilly What years where you stationed at Nellis?? What was your afsc?
I've been researching a lot into 3d0x2, not much information I can find, but what I have found seems like they don't do much in what they learned in tech school?

My old AFSC was 2E2X1 which was consolidated into one of the 3DXXX jobs (not sure which one). I was trained on crypto systems, PCs and networks. There is always that chance that what you are trained on will not be exactly what you do. I saw a lot of good info from the other posts that covered what you need to know. You can always get out of the military after 4 years and use the GI bill to continue your education. Then you will have experience and a degree, jobs will come.

SaSkiller · June 2015

Yeah, I wouldn't mind going into a reserve component, but my experience is over the level of most of the things I could enlist into, then I would have to wait to retrain, assuming I was permitted to do so, and you'd need to have a slot at your local unit for the new job, and your mobility is restricted...

sr20eric · June 2015

So here's my experience and opinion...this is a bit much but it is what I've done. To answer your question up front....did the military help me with my current IT career? No, not at all. However, every Veteran's Day I get a Honey Baked Ham with 2 sides on dry ice in the mail from my employer....so that's cool! Take from this what you will.

Air Force Experience:

I did 4 years in the Air Force from 2003-2007. I was a 2A5 (Comm Nav Maintenance Tech) on the E8C (JSTAR) Aircraft in the 116th AMXS at Warner Robins, GA. I worked with Radios (UHF, VHF, HF), SatComm, Color Weather Radar, and some other proprietary stuff on the jet. I was ages 20-24 during my enlistment. I deployed a few times and went TDY once.

All in all, I had a great time. I loved the people I worked with and I had a great schedule (4 10 Hour Days). I worked with mostly Guard and Contractors (AFETS). I had it very easy compared to buddies I talked to from basic and tech school.

The experience you're going to have will vary widely on the base and people you work with. Your AFSC/MOS (Job) will also determine your schedule and duties. The people are what makes the experience great, good, or crappy.

I did not do any "IT" work while enlisted. The IT work I did was on my Aircraft and wouldn't really translate into what we know as "IT" today.

I did use the GI Bill to go to school for a few years towards an IT degree when I got out but I never finished my degree.

If I had to do it all over again, I would not have joined. I joined to procrastinate another 4 years of my life until I could decide what I wanted to do with my life. So if you already know what you want to do, there are better/faster ways to get into IT than joining the military.

Current Role/Experience:
When I left the Air Force I did Pest Control for 5 years (Good Money) until I landed in my current job in IT (Through a referral from a friend who works at the IT company).

July will make 2 years I've been at my IT job. I work for an MSP (Managed Service Provider) for small to mid sized companies in our area. I came in with 0 experience other than I had been building my own personal PCs since I started PC gaming in 2003. I had half an IT degree and I knew my way around Windows but that was it. I also had a recommendation from a good friend who had been with the company for a few years already. This helped immensely, plus they saw the salary cut I was taking leaving pest control to come work Help Desk. It was a total career move. This and the recommendation sealed the deal.

I started at Help Desk and worked that for an entire year while I learned what a domain was, how to change a password on a domain account, simple MS Office Suite troubleshooting, spam filter/mail flow issues, hand held device setups (email), etc etc. All the easy stuff for you IT guys, for me this was tough because I learned everything as I went. This took an entire year because I was starting at ground zero. In that time I took and passed my Network+, Server+, Security+, Windows 70-680, and Windows 70-685. All paid for by the company with training days/time provided. Your mileage may vary.

Then I went from Help Desk to Junior Sys Admin for 6 months. I learned about AD Structure, basic Firewall and Network stuff, and started to get my feet wet with Group Policy and Exchange.

I did that for 6 months and moved into a regular Sys Admin role and have been doing that the past 6 months. I've basically just gone deeper into what I was already doing but I don't ask for help as much

I'm due to take my 70-410 during June when I get it scheduled.

In my opinion, if you don't have a degree, the money to go to school for a degree, and don't plan on being in management in foreseeable future then get on a Help Desk somewhere and start logging hours. Do everything you can to learn. Decide which certifications you want, save your money, take them and pass them on the first try. Start building a career/resume.

JUMP at every opportunity to work on a special project, after hours work, onsite work, anything you can get your hands on. Learn it, remember it, write it down, read it, read everything, ask questions, ask people to show you how to do something. Build a black book of things you know how to do with instructions on how to do them. Write everything you do that is outside of your job's technical scope down so you can use it for bullet points on performance/job reviews.

If you have zero experience, expect to sit on Help Desk for at least a year minimum. Again, your mileage may vary depending on aptitude and open positions. If you have the aptitude and your technical abilities have grown and people notice, expect to be promoted to a higher/more technical position. If you end up sitting on Help Desk longer than a year...and you don't see any hope of promotion even though your technical abilities have grown...and you've taken and passed the CompTIA trinity (A+, N+, Sec+)....focus focus on your next round of certifications...depending on what you want to do...so maybe Cisco stuff (CCNA) or maybe Windows ( Going Desktop vs Server would be completely up to you and your comfort/technical level.)

In 2 years if you can't get off the help desk (not because of your own lack of abilities) or you just can't work at the place for some other reason, part ways with great experience, a bunch of certifications, a badass resume and a great attitude.

That's how I did it, so it can be done. I haven't had to leave my current employer and I plan to work and move up as long as the Lord sees fit.

Take from all that what you will

SteveLord · June 2015

Just wanted to toss in that ALL military enlistments are 8 years long total. Active vs reserve can vary, but a lot of civilians don't seem to realize this.

OfWolfAndMan · June 2015

SteveLord wrote: »

Just wanted to toss in that ALL military enlistments are 8 years long total. Active vs reserve can vary, but a lot of civilians don't seem to realize this.

What he really means is you enlist for 4-6 years (Let's say active), and once your time is up, there's an eight your obligation, so let's say you were in for four years, you are put into inactive Reserve for a remaining four. Unless you are called back during a time of war, there's really nothing else you do with it.

Honestly though, considering the state of the US military's lacking budget, I don't foresee them pulling many people back unless it's voluntary, with the exception of special areas.

DeezyFF · June 2015

Best 4 years of my life. It seriously set me up for success with job experience, security clearance, and GI Bill for college after. A lot of the people I have worked for after the military have a preference of hiring veterans with experience. But it was honestly a great experience taught me a lot as a 19 year old kid.

Also the friends I made while in service are some of the best I've ever had. Do yourself a favor and enlist with a MOS that is something you like to do.

Krimm90 · June 2015

I was a technical controller in the Marine Corps and i learned quite a bit during my time in. My third year i was sent to work in a NOC and while the civilian contractors handled server administration and some of the more major networking functions, it was still a great place to learn. While there i learned all about routing and switching. To become 8570 compliant i was sent to Net+ and Sec+ courses and had the certs paid for and later i also had my CCNA paid for by my unit (didn't have to use my education benefits). In my CCNA course there were several airman and soldiers so I'm pretty sure you could get it as well as long as your job would benefit from it.

With that being said there are a lot of other things you will have to deal with in the military as previously mentioned. The higher in rank you go the more responsibility and "extra" tasks you will have to do.

Anyone in here have an Air Force/military back ground?

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