Job Requirements getting out of control?

daviddws

Ok. Is it just me, or have job requirements reached a new level of ridiciulous? Pick almost ANY type of IT position, and many of the requirements would take a lifetime of learning to meet.

For most of my working career I was encouraged to apply even if I didn't meet all the requirements, because the company would generally train or give you the opportunity to learn it quickly.

This seems to be an old-fashioned idea, because now you have to meet ALL the requirements with x amount of years.

Am I the only person who sees this?

Techguru365

definitely are! Plus every position is for a senior personnel, with 10+ years experience. Where are we suppose to get that experience if no one wants to take the time to nurture new talent?

networker050184

If I actually had to know 100% of everything listed on job apps I would have never gotten a job in my life.

ScrawnyRonnie

I recently saw a position listed for tier 1 service desk support. They are looking for someone with 5-9 years experience + 4 years of Remedy experience...

Why would anyone with 5+ years want to work a first line help desk job?? (Unless they are simply in desperate need of a job)

JoJoCal19

You're right in that nowadays a large number, if not most companies want people to walk in the door ready to go. The days of OJT are over. I mean you can still get "entry level" jobs, but even in those entry level jobs you need to have a good knowledge base and be able to show the employer you at least have the knowledge and can get hands on experience at the job.

GarudaMin

You mean like ...Ideal candidate has 5-10 years of experience in Windows Server 2012 administration...

or

...Must have 10+ years of experience with networking, must have active CCNP or CCIE, pay range $40k - $60k, location - major city in USA...?

N2IT

Market is flooded, supply and demand.

JasminLandry

Even if jobs are asking for ridiculous requirements, to me it doesn't mean it's impossible to get the job. Generally what they ask for is the ideal candidate but most of the time there is no ideal candidate so they'll simply hire the best one out there.

roch_greg

I've noticed this too. What really gets me is some listing will have lengthy requirements which many either overlap or are from dissimilar disciplines. Like a job listing for a Network Administrator or Engineer that has a CCNP requirement then right after that 5 years of programming experience.

I have begun to call these listing the "kitchen sink" approach where the company is just throwing everything in.

Thexzeno

N2IT wrote: »

Market is flooded, supply and demand.

Is the market really flooded?

networker050184

Flooded with people, not flooded with qualified people from my experience. We get hundreds of resumes for an open position. Still takes months to find one person qualified, much less a good fit.

jvrlopez

Took a look around today and saw "CCNA/CNNP/CCIE or Linux+ required. Pay $40000"

datacomboss

I saw one with CCNP and CISSP desired in a JOAT role for $60,000.

fredrikjj

If all you do is look at "official" ads, you'll get a bias towards higher level positions because that's where it's worth spending money on that kind of process.

cyberguypr

Also keep in mind that sometime you have a low level manager or an HR drove writing the copy for the posting. Doesn't necessarily mean what the ad says is what they are actually looking for.

darkerz

Hiring Manager to HR;

"We want a CCNP level network person - guy or gal who's been involved with intermediate level ospf and bgp, some switching, it would be nice if they at least used vSphere & vCentral once in their life and some basic management"

HR to Job Boards;

"CCNP LEVEL NETWORK ENGINEER 5-9 YEARS EXPERIENCE"
"CCNP OSPF NETWORK DESIGN AND TROUBLESHOOTING"
"IN DEPTH BGP NETWORK DESIGN AND TROUBLESHOOTING"
"EXPERT LEVEL VSPHERE MANAGEMENT AND OPERATION ENGINEERING"
"PROVEN EXPERIENCE IN VCENTRAL ARCHITECTURE AND DEPLOYMENT"
"NEEDS TO KNOW C++, PYTHON, PERL, RUBY, TCL AND ASP.NET"
"EXCELLENT EXPERT EXPERIENCE IN SWITCHING HUBS, SWITCHES, REPEATERS, STP, MST, VTP, NEXUS"
"STARTING PAY 60,000, MULTIPLE CCIE PREFERED"

N2IT

I think it's completely flooded. Just last year this time in my market, it was flowing with positions of all types. Analyst, Engineers, Technicians, etc. Now it's trending downward a quite a bit. In fact I have completely swore off looking for jobs this year. I'll wait to 15 to begin to look.

RouteMyPacket

networker050184 wrote: »

Flooded with people, not flooded with qualified people from my experience.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

OfWolfAndMan

networker050184 wrote: »

Flooded with people, not flooded with qualified people from my experience.

I agree 100%. I think a few things go into that: Willingness and motivation to learn and grow (Which, assuming they have several years experience, will help you tell if they actually cared from their quality of work), knowing the right people (Not necessarily having the skills though, and in some cases, faking it until you make it), and, a most common ethic among a good number, doing just enough to get by. IMO, it boils down to wanting to always do better and continuously improve yourself. If you have no experience at all however (Or think you're entitled for no reason), that's a different story.

--chris--

darkerz wrote: »

Hiring Manager to HR;

"We want a CCNP level network person - guy or gal who's been involved with intermediate level ospf and bgp, some switching, it would be nice if they at least used vSphere & vCentral once in their life and some basic management"

HR to Job Boards;

"CCNP LEVEL NETWORK ENGINEER 5-9 YEARS EXPERIENCE"
"CCNP OSPF NETWORK DESIGN AND TROUBLESHOOTING"
"IN DEPTH BGP NETWORK DESIGN AND TROUBLESHOOTING"
"EXPERT LEVEL VSPHERE MANAGEMENT AND OPERATION ENGINEERING"
"PROVEN EXPERIENCE IN VCENTRAL ARCHITECTURE AND DEPLOYMENT"
"NEEDS TO KNOW C++, PYTHON, PERL, RUBY, TCL AND ASP.NET"
"EXCELLENT EXPERT EXPERIENCE IN SWITCHING HUBS, SWITCHES, REPEATERS, STP, MST, VTP, NEXUS"
"STARTING PAY 60,000, MULTIPLE CCIE PREFERED"

Its been a long day of desktop support.

This made me chuckle. Thanks


I've been applying to positions that have all sorts of requirements. Two have called back for interviews out of the 25-30. Just how it goes I think.

boobobobobob

I think it tends to be bigger companies or staffing agencies that have these odd requirements. Because like people said it's HR making these posts not anyone in IT. You just need to hit some of the requirements and your resume will get pushed up.

kohr-ah

Maybe they find other companies that have the same jobs and copy and paste it in.
Uh lets see. Linux.. that sounds cool.. ok we need a linux person.
CCIE [Googles It] "Oh he** yeah we need one of those! Heck if they have 2 that is twice the awesome"
a little of this.. little of that.. ok we are good to go and [< POST >]

phoeneous

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

The days of OJT are over.

Disagree 100%

stylezunknown

If you were a hot chick with a hot body you wouldn't have this problem. sorry just joking. In all seriousness I agree with most of you, however I think these crazy "required qualifications" are just scare tactics to keep away from having to sort through 9 million+ applications. Just apply anyway if you feel you fit to the actual role.

stylezunknown

GarudaMin wrote: »

You mean like ...Ideal candidate has 5-10 years of experience in Windows Server 2012 administration...

or

...Must have 10+ years of experience with networking, must have active CCNP or CCIE, pay range $40k - $60k, location - major city in USA...?

hahahaha 5-10 years of experience in Windows Server 2012 administration... Impossibru!

petedude

N2IT wrote: »

I think it's completely flooded. Just last year this time in my market, it was flowing with positions of all types. Analyst, Engineers, Technicians, etc. Now it's trending downward a quite a bit. In fact I have completely swore off looking for jobs this year. I'll wait to 15 to begin to look.

4Q is usually when hiring goes nuts. You might not want to wait until 15.

kihun

looking at this makes me want to cry..

JoJoCal19

phoeneous wrote: »

Disagree 100%

Feel free to disagree. True entry level positions where people are brought in and trained from scratch are on the endangered list, quickly heading for extinction. There's far more candidates than jobs at the lower level and experienced folks are willing to take what would normally be entry level jobs, just to have an income. Employers know this and are hiring as such.

LionelTeo

3 Years Experience - CISSP required
2 Years Experience - CISSP required
1 Years Experience - CISSP required
No experience - but CISSP required

How do people get them????

adam220891

phoeneous wrote: »

Disagree 100%

I would say it's becoming more scarce. I was fortunate....work with very supportive people and have learned tons. Was even told that I was not expected to be worth the investment for the first six months. I do, however, believe that the company was willing to take someone like me in order to save money and build loyalty.

It's hard for me to say I fully disagree with hiring people with experience...there's so much I didn't know, even after getting the A+, N+, and an MTA in Networking. I also have an AAS in CST. I would say, if I hadn't gotten those certs and done some labbing at home, I would not have been nearly prepared enough for the role that I entered. Even with all that, however, I've learned a ton every day.

apr911

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

You're right in that nowadays a large number, if not most companies want people to walk in the door ready to go. The days of OJT are over. I mean you can still get "entry level" jobs, but even in those entry level jobs you need to have a good knowledge base and be able to show the employer you at least have the knowledge and can get hands on experience at the job.

I disagree. There are still plenty of places offering on the job training but you have to bring a value to the company in someway for the company to truly consider.

At my current company, I moved over from a SysAd role in Windows to a Network Admin role with no experience. I brought value in the form of an existing employee with a good history, work ethic, demonstrated ability to learn quickly and the fact that I could still double as a SysAd when called for.

Still at my current company, we routinely hire people with little experience and train them up. They bring value in the willingness to learn and they generally take pay that's 30% lower than what the position would pay a seasoned person in the same "Jr Admin" role. We do this so much in fact that there is now an ongoing argument between management and the "Sr Admins" to stop or at least slow the practice. Management wants to continue because it looks good on their budget sheets to get 3 to 5 people for the same annual amount as 1 or 2 experienced or senior level admins. The Sr Admins want to stop it or slow it down because the headcount increase is causing the perception of "you have more heads, you can do more work" when in reality the Sr Admins workload is now doubled or even tripled because the new heads are next to useless and need to be trained by the Sr Admins all while the Sr Admins maintain the current (and increasing) work flow.


Really when it comes right down to it, you need to bring something to the table to be wanted and worth the investment on OJT. Too often people enter IT thinking its a road to a quick 6 figure paycheck and its not. Its a meritocracy and some hot-shot who's never touched a production network in their life isn't getting anywhere near my network until they've proven themselves capable and in the meantime, they better be willing to pay attention, learn and not expect to make what I make.

I still receive regular OJT for things that both fall under my purview as a Network Admin and for things that dont (recently received OJT for RedHat because I requested it). But then I have brought value to the company in the past and continue to bring value now and in the future by being able to apply that OJT to my everyday position regardless of if it falls in my purview or not.