Applying for positions out of state

N2IT

Just curious anything you should be aware of or do differently.

I am content now but I started thinking to really maximize your value and opportunities opening up to national searches could potentially lead to your end game faster.

Some items of concern

• Companies that you work and the state listed next to them
• Your address in the heading of your resume
• Education from schools not in that area. University of Illinois when you are applying in Oregon (EG)

Those are the risk that come to mind.

Any others to consider and how do you manage that? Stating in a cover letter your objective is to transition to city state xyz due to this reason oh and by the way I like your company? Of course I am kidding (a little) but in sincerity how do you do this?

PS Love my job but my 5 year plan is probably going to require this eventually. IMO 2 more years and it will be time to use this strategy.

Thanks!

MSP-IT

Planning on doing this next year with my wife. We're planning on looking at DC/NoVA and Denver intently, and possibly San Diego/San Fran depending on the jobs that would come up.

Ideally, I'd like to work with some recruiters and see if they could find some possible matches. They'd be a free resource and have most likely worked with out of state candidates before.

As far as not raising any red flags goes, I've thought of renting a P.O. box and getting local Google Voice number for my resume. I'd probably go as far as removing the locale of my employers. I think this could probably get you through the screening process. At that point in time, I'd be willing to travel if need be for in-person interviews.

N2IT

MSP-IT wrote: »

As far as not raising any red flags goes, I've thought of renting a P.O. box and getting local Google Voice number for my resume. I'd probably go as far as removing the locale of my employers. I think this could probably get you through the screening process. At that point in time, I'd be willing to travel if need be for in-person interviews.

These are really awesome ideas. Can't believe I didn't think of the Google phone #, I've had one before. The other items though are awesome, I love the PO Box idea. I'm not sure of the cost but having one or two well placed ones could bring you more hits IMO.

Thanks for sharing these great ideas.

petedude

MSP-IT wrote: »

Planning on doing this next year with my wife. We're planning on looking at DC/NoVA and Denver intently, and possibly San Diego/San Fran depending on the jobs that would come up.

It's coming to a point where it might be necessary to relocate to fast-track a career. (I'll come back to that in a second.)

California cities have a surplus of qualified IT folks for most high-end IT roles. I wouldn't suggest moving to Cali. Central time zone looks best to me, even including Texas.

You might almost have to move Midwest, get a pile of killer ticker file notes (aka tangible, specific wins/successes), bump up the resume, then go either West or East.

As to the how-- if there's a relative living near the desired endpoint, ask if you can use their phone number/address. You might even want to have a few small bills (e.g. credit cards) sent to that location so you can have the address turn up in a background check.

the_Grinch

Definitely work with a recruiter and tell them no contract jobs (unless you want them). A friend wanted Houston and she worked with a recruiter to setup all the interviews. Took awhile, but she got picked up and has been really happy.

MSP-IT

petedude wrote: »

California cities have a surplus of qualified IT folks for most high-end IT roles. I wouldn't suggest moving to Cali. Central time zone looks best to me, even including Texas.

Good to know about California. I'd still be considered a neophyte most places, so the less competition the better. Where would you recommend in the Midwest?

petedude

MSP-IT wrote: »

Good to know about California. I'd still be considered a neophyte most places, so the less competition the better. Where would you recommend in the Midwest?

I'd focus on Illinois, Kansas/Missouri, and Dallas/Fort Worth.

devils_haircut

Texas seems to be a hotbed for tech jobs right now: Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio...I used to live near Austin, and I honestly wouldn't mind moving back to Texas for the right price. But personally, I have my sights set on Seattle.

SteveLord

Texas has been hot for years. Even non-IT since you generally pocket more of your salary compared to California where you pay out the nose for everything under the sun.

MSP-IT

I need mountains or an ocean and preferably mild summers. What parts of Texas can offer that?

JockVSJock

N2IT wrote: »

These are really awesome ideas. Can't believe I didn't think of the Google phone #, I've had one before. The other items though are awesome, I love the PO Box idea. I'm not sure of the cost but having one or two well placed ones could bring you more hits IMO.

Thanks for sharing these great ideas.

You can rent a PO Box from the UPS store to get a local address. However I believe that at one time you were working high up mngt wise, correct? Typically if you have enough value, companies will relocate you on their dime.

devils_haircut

MSP-IT wrote: »

I need mountains or an ocean and preferably mild summers. What parts of Texas can offer that?

You mean you don't like flat, barren ground, trees that reach a whopping 6' tall, and summers that are so hot and dry the grass turns brown in May?


Yeah, that's the only thing keeping me from moving back to Texas. Here in the Midwest we have that thing called seasons, with Fall and Spring being my favorites.

N2IT

@ Jock I wouldn't call it high level management, more like program manager. I managed several operational teams and some project groups.

Now I am Business Analyst who acts as a PM.

tprice5

MSP-IT wrote: »

They'd be a free resource and have most likely worked with out of state candidates before.

No such thing. If you are hired on via a recruiter and leave prior to completing your one year, you will likely have to repay the prorated fee the recruiting agency charged the company. That's how it worked at my previous employer anyways.

apr911

Ive seen a lot of these suggestions before and I just dont know...

I suppose its possible Im missing out on prime opportunities on account of my out of state resume but I got my current job in Texas while living in Pennsylvania with a PA Resume and Phone number and Ive interviewed for several out of state positions in at least a half dozen different states on both coasts and elsewhere (WA, DC, GA, NY, NC, PA, VA, TX, IL) with my Texas Resume and Pennsylvania Phone (never changed my cell to Texas).

I just dont think it matters that much anymore, especially phone numbers since its so easy to have and a maintain out of state phone numbers now with cell phones, google voice, skype, etc. There's also the fact that I applied for these positions so I knew full well going in that it was not in Texas which I think the companies recognize. Most of the time one of the 1st things that comes up is why I want to leave Texas, what it would take to get me to leave Texas, am I aware the job is not located in Texas or some variation thereof.

The only thing the Texas Resume seems to impact is the recruitment offers I receive. Im constantly getting contacted by recruiters looking to fill positions in San Antonio or Austin or Dallas. The first 2 are almost certainly because of my location in San Antonio but for the last one its hard to tell if I am receiving those recruitment attempts on account of already being in Texas or just because Dallas seems to be a hotbed at the moment.

There is some 300 miles between San Antonio and Dallas... I also dont receive nearly as many Houston offers and its 100 miles closer so Im more inclined to believe its due to the IT boom occurring there.


To me, putting a local address or phone number on the resume is being a bit untoward and putting you at just as much of a disadvantage as it gives an advantage. Its hard to "fake" residency and all too easy to find out your true residency via background checks, speculation based on current employer's location, social media or any number of other methods. If a company thinks you're local and later finds out you're not before you've had the opportunity to tell them, it can reflect badly on you.

There is also the possible legal implications... Many companies receive tax breaks from their state and/or city based on job creation. Some of these breaks come with strings attached that require the company to hire a certain percentage locally and/or prove they couldnt hire locally if they are unable to meet the quota's set. Companies will likely take a very dim view of you endangering their tax status by not being forthcoming about your location. Similarly, some companies also receive state/city issued grants for workforce training and/or other purposes. These grants usually come with similar strings attached that are often even more stringent than the tax status.

Finally, even if you manage to pull off the charade and never told the employer you are not local (or even if you did tell them) you are likely to now have to finance your own relocation (including the loss of any relocation services that may have helped you get on your feet in the new city finding Doctors, apartments, etc.) as well as travel to interviews. Both of which are expensive propositions and can be especially costly if the company wants to bring you back for multiple rounds.

Then again, this is all based on my experience and as someone who has held multiple senior level roles in multiple departments/os's/skillsets, I may just be in high-enough demand that the employers look the other way when it comes to the fact I am out of state.

I guess if there was a place I really wanted to go and I was not in a position capable of commanding relocation benefits and was looking at non-salaried, jr admin or helpdesk type roles where a company is unlikely to want to bring in talent when local talent will do, I would consider the idea of putting a local address and phone number on my resume.

For any higher level position though, I almost always rule it out as it has been my experience that a company that is unwilling to explore at least a national candidate pool for a position is unlikely to find the talent they truly need and/or pay salaries competitive on a national level.

tprice5

Apr911 nailed it. I was about to comment on the fact that you would be forfeiting all relocation allowances as well.

It all just seems so completely unnecessary to me. I've never thought that I wouldn't be considered for a position based on my location.

EDIT: The previous statement was referring to locations within the States. Obviously applying to somewhere in the UK or Australia might not be as easy due to immigration concerns.

apr911

tprice5 wrote: »

EDIT: The previous statement was referring to locations within the States. Obviously applying to somewhere in the UK or Australia might not be as easy due to immigration concerns.

Immigration issues just further up's the downside of listing a local address and phone number. Though for international, I would consider getting a local number just so the company can reach me and I can reach them without having to call international which is expensive.

If you are authorized to work in the country, that may change things a bit but you could also include a list of countries you are authorized to work in on your resume. Also, that's usually a question that gets asked during the application process anyway (Are you authorized to work in country? Do you require visa sponsorship?).

Even if you are authorized to work in the country you are applying in without sponsorship, I would still consider making it well known where in the world I am located due to time zones...

Even within the US time zones can play a major part in setting up interview schedules. Living in California (or worse Hawaii or Alaska) while claiming to be on the East Coast could result in getting a 5 or 6 am phone call from the company thinking now is the ideal time to call since its the start of business hours/working day. Or the reverse, a West-coast/Hawaii/Alaska based company calling you at 8pm or later because its closer to the end of the business day for them.

jibbajabba

apr911 wrote: »

Immigration issues just further up's the downside of listing a local address and phone number. Though for international, I would consider getting a local number just so the company can reach me and I can reach them without having to call international which is expensive..

If a company has problems in calling you on an international number because it is expensive, then maybe it is not the right company to begin with - I'd be worried if they are able to fund my salary in the long run

tprice5

jibbajabba wrote: »

If a company has problems in calling you on an international number because it is expensive, then maybe it is not the right company to begin with - I'd be worried if they are able to fund my salary in the long run

Cost of phone call yeah, but you can't fault a company for not wanting to deal with all the red tape of sponsoring an employee.

apr911

jibbajabba wrote: »

If a company has problems in calling you on an international number because it is expensive, then maybe it is not the right company to begin with - I'd be worried if they are able to fund my salary in the long run

That may be true but Id consider that more of a professional courtesy than for the actual cost saving benefit to the company.

It doesn't take much to set up a number and you're not unnecessarily increasing the company's costs which is likely to be appreciated and you're going the "extra mile" as it were both of which will likely reflect positively on you. For such a minor thing, requiring very little effort, the benefits can be significant.

There's also the fact that calling from the local number means you aren't paying international rates which allows you to follow-up with the team/hiring manager/HR dept. via phone instead of relying on them to follow-up with you and/or doing it all through email.

While email is often the preferred way of communicating and documenting things today (the hand written thank you note is quickly dying), the human interaction of talking on the phone still cant be beat (except by in person conversation). You can convey much more with a call than you can an email.

LinuxNerd

Excellent advice offered in this thread ^

I think an additional potential way to approach this, should the situation lend itself to this strategy, would be to focus on particular areas a few weeks at a time, or even a month. For example, if Seattle is #1 on your list, find a furnished short-term rental and spend a couple weeks in Seattle looking for gigs, so on and so forth for each area.

Of course, this would require being able to have this mobility. But it is a potential strategy for those with remote positions, contract work, or those in between jobs.