Starting WGU MSISA 8/1

cyberguypr

Well, it's done. After toying with it for over a year I finally committed to the MSISA. As others have said here this is just a checkbox for my personal goals and it's neither required for my job nor expected to get me a raise, better job, etc. My sole goal is to finish this as quick as I can and spending as little as possible. Ideally one term, but absolutely no more than two.

Already completed EWB and am currently going through the degree plan seeing what each class is about. Although I intently dislike EC Council, I'll have to suck it up and take their stuff. I've been studying for the CEH for a couple of weeks now and basically find the material redundant due to my experience and skill set, so I'll talk to my mentor to see how soon I can take it. From what I read CHFI is not that hard either.

I've been through a lot of MSISA threads here but if anyone has any suggestions, tips, order of courses, etc., now is the time.

Thanks to all those who I hit up via PM to inquire about WGU and other colleges.

Shdwmage

You'll beat me through, I'm looking at 2 years, but I don't have anywhere near the certs you do.

exspiravit

MSISA in one-term... that's 30 credits in six months? Or, did you mean in one year and no more than two years?

cyberguypr

Correct, one six month term. It's been done before and although I will not obsess over it would love achieve it.

Keroseen

Half the battle is dealing with the half baked tasks and largely inadequate learning resources... Most of the tasks you'll be left scratching your head wondering who came up with them up with them; surely not someone who is actually in the security and information assurance field. But jump through the hoops, and meet the rubrics to the letter and you'll come out with a degree. Frankly, I think the program COS isn't mature enough for most of the classes offered- the exception being the overlapping MBA class of two that are part of the program. In any event, best of luck to you- you'll need it.

exspiravit

Wow, 30 credits in six months. That does not sound like a program worth taking if it can be gamed like that and also going by the comment previous to this one. But, I digress... personal opinion is personal opinion. I will talk my wife out of WGU now.

cyberguypr

How exactly is having a lot of expertise, dedicating a lot of time, and fulfilling all requirements gaming the system, especially when their major selling point is accelerating progress?

kurosaki00

Hopefully will start on that early next yr after taking CCNA Sec and Sec +
Exito!

Keroseen

electronbee wrote: »

Wow, 30 credits in six months. That does not sound like a program worth taking if it can be gamed like that and also going by the comment previous to this one. But, I digress... personal opinion is personal opinion. I will talk my wife out of WGU now.

I don't want to come off as though I'm knocking the school... It's just WGU uses a compentency based model. That is to say, you don't have to submit excellent, or even good work, just enough to be minimally competent in a specific field of study. With the pass or "did not pass" criteria for grading, the only way you can esentially fail to obtain a degree is if you outright quit. I jokingly refer to it as a "Masters Degree for Dummies." Ultimately, I think it reinforces a continual trend which consists of the "dumbing down" of America. Everyone can be "educated" on the cheap, and everyone can feel like a big winner at the end of the day. What's really happening though is that we're catering to the lowest denominator and in the process cheapening the value of a "real" education.

colemic

@kerosene what does a 'real' education look like to you, compared to WGU's methods? I would also argue that for any piece of paper, you only have to be minimally competent to get the degree... and sometimes not even competent if you consider that most traditional learning environments only teach theory, not practicality. It's a different focus.

That said, I kind of agree with you regarding the MSISA, even more so after completing my first 3 courses for the MSML degree... it wasn't as obvious in the MSISA, but I feel like there is an element missing, although I can't quite articulate what it is yet.

colemic

@cyberguypr, glad to see you take the plunge! I decided to take the 'academic' classes first to get them knocked out, and focus on the certs last, and it worked pretty well for me...

emerald_octane

electronbee wrote: »

Wow, 30 credits in six months. That does not sound like a program worth taking if it can be gamed like that and also going by the comment previous to this one. But, I digress... personal opinion is personal opinion. I will talk my wife out of WGU now.

Fun fact, many B&M schools will let you enroll in as many credits as you want (or atleast well above the "minimum" required for a full time load) BUT you're typically limited by what you can actually attend. If the courses are online, voila, no more scheduling conflicts.

Shdwmage

electronbee wrote: »

Wow, 30 credits in six months. That does not sound like a program worth taking if it can be gamed like that and also going by the comment previous to this one. But, I digress... personal opinion is personal opinion. I will talk my wife out of WGU now.

I'm not really sure why you're so sour on this. Regular colleges work the same. If you do minimal effort, you will receive minimal reward. You can graduate most colleges with a C average. Wouldn't this be considered just getting by? People learn differently, some people seem to need a very structured environment where you go to school. Other people thrive off of being able to get as much done as quickly as possible.

Myself, I have issues with regular schooling. I think it is a huge waist of money. I pay for teachers that have never been out in the real world doing this work and practice theory. Sure, I'm certain schools like WGU have the same type of thing, but I'm only paying a fraction of what the other person is. When it comes to traditional college I read the books in the first month of the class and then I'm bored out of my mind because I feel like I'm not learning anything. With WGU I can finish the course, and take the final test, or certification. Then I'm done, and then I can immediately enroll in a different course and not have to wait for the semester to start anew thereby waisting more of my precious time.

We all have our biases, and clearly yours is against schools like WGU, and clearly mine is against 4 year universities.

Mr. Meeseeks

emerald_octane wrote: »

Fun fact, many B&M schools will let you enroll in as many credits as you want (or atleast well above the "minimum" required for a full time load) BUT you're typically limited by what you can actually attend. If the courses are online, voila, no more scheduling conflicts.

But you are still confronted by deadlines and not being able to access all the material from the start. "Oh I have a final that week that I will have no internet access" Guess you're ****ed. I can access material for any class in my degree plan RIGHT NOW. And good luck trying to enroll in more than 16 or 24 units in a single term/semester...

22306

i believe that B&M schools are waste of time and money

exspiravit

Fun fact: I went to an online MSIA program from a B&M school: Capitol College. I could have gone to UMUC or GMU, etc, but with my kid and work and dogs and the DC area traffic I had to go with something that would work for me. Personally, I think an "online-delivery" is *WAY* harder than attending in person. You have to keep on top of it as it is a lot easier to push it to the side and hope to make it up earlier. I also don't see the reason to drive 45 minutes, sit in a classroom, and watch an instructor click through PPTs during discussion. Adobe Connect is basically the same thing. To each their own.

A MS degree from Capitol College requires a 3.0 to pass. If you get a C in a class and that class is a pre-req you will have to re-take the class. Hopefully you will get an A somewhere else to offset that C. Capitol College is a CAE school so I take that and the fact that I got a 4.0 with extreme pride.

Personally, getting an A is not going to require that much more work than a B. So, the fact that a school is doing pass/fail at 70% makes me wonder, why? I guess one us just wants the "resume candy". To each their own.

colemic

Well, how exactly would you grade a course that is tied to a certification exam? The grade from the cert? That would make no sense at all, because even the cert doesn't care as long as you meet the cutoff score. Everyone likes to act all smug about the B&M school they attended/attending, but WGU is filling a need that isn't being met by traditional schools. Happy for you that you got a 4.0 - what value does that have to you outside of school? Is it on your resume? How much do you think people care about your GPA? Or is it the 'resume candy' (that you look down upon) that matters to you as well? Pot, meet kettle...

And CAE status? I have not seen one single person care. EVER.


From NSA Centers of Excellence

Fun fact: Why should my school become a Center of Excellence?

Benefits to Academia:Colleges and universities designated as Centers of Academic Excellence in Information Assurance Education will receive formal recognition from the United States Government, along with the associated prestige and opportunities for publicity. This recognition will be in the form of an official Government certificate. Centers of Academic Excellence in Information Assurance Education are eligible to apply for scholarships and grants through both the federal and Department of Defense Information Assurance Scholarship Programs. Designation as a Center does not carry a commitment for funding from the National Security Agency.

Benefits to the Nation:The National Security Agency, and other Federal Departments and Agencies: the program is intended to assist in meeting national demand for a cadre of professionals with information assurance expertise in various disciplines. These professionals will enter the workforce better equipped to meet challenges facing our national information infrastructure. Centers of Academic Excellence in Information Assurance Education may become focal points for recruiting individuals with information assurance expertise. The Centers may also create a climate and foci to encourage independent research in critical information assurance areas.

So there's the benefit of being a CAE school.

da_vato

colemic: thank you very much for that very powerful reply. I couldn't agree with you more.

electronbee: WGU grades on a 80% pass or fail, not to say that is a significant difference and I can assure you that not everyone is accepted to the program. So there is proof of establishing and upholding standards.

anoeljr

Keroseen wrote: »

I don't want to come off as though I'm knocking the school... It's just WGU uses a compentency based model. That is to say, you don't have to submit excellent, or even good work, just enough to be minimally competent in a specific field of study. With the pass or "did not pass" criteria for grading, the only way you can esentially fail to obtain a degree is if you outright quit. I jokingly refer to it as a "Masters Degree for Dummies." Ultimately, I think it reinforces a continual trend which consists of the "dumbing down" of America. Everyone can be "educated" on the cheap, and everyone can feel like a big winner at the end of the day. What's really happening though is that we're catering to the lowest denominator and in the process cheapening the value of a "real" education.

Yea this comment doesn't really make sense to me either. I went to the both a community college and then a B&M before going to WGU, and you get out of it what you put in. There are plenty of people just barely doing enough work to pass classes in all schools. You can't just single out WGU like that.

datacomboss

As a graduate of big state U, I think it doesn't matter unless you plan to become a tenured professor/researcher at some prestigious university or think tank. I've worked right along side high-level managers who got MBAs from the likes of Northwood, Capella and Devry. If I didn't have professorial aspirations, I would not have hesitated to get my graduate degree from WGU.

emerald_octane

da_vato wrote: »

I can assure you that not everyone is accepted to the program. So there is proof of establishing and upholding standards.

What's even funnier is that people get *upset* when they are not accepted into WGU. Someone had a thread here about a year ago complaining that they were denied entry. "This school isn't that prestigious how dare they deny me!"

exspiravit

colemic wrote: »

Well, how exactly would you grade a course that is tied to a certification exam? The grade from the cert?
That would make no sense at all, because even the cert doesn't care as long as you meet the cutoff score.

Dunno, what actual college course is tied to a cert? The two usually serve different purposes although a pipeline of courses can help one pass a cert. One thing I keep in mind when it comes to either, is there a deliverable or lab practical tied to it? I like Cisco certs and the like in that regard.

Everyone likes to act all smug about the B&M school they attended/attending, but WGU is filling a need that isn't being met by traditional schools.

It's the 30 credits in six months that made me worry about the quality of the program. Not that it's an online school. I love online education and it' the future. It's the quality of the instructor and not that it's a B&M vs online.

Happy for you that you got a 4.0 - what value does that have to you outside of school? Is it on your resume? How much do you think people care about your GPA? Or is it the 'resume candy' (that you look down upon) that matters to you as well? Pot, meet kettle...

Yes, correct, resume candy that I am very proud of. And, I like to mention it, not to be smug, but because it wasn't easy and I am impressed with myself that I pulled it off in 12 months. It's a combination of pride and exhaustion, I like to think of it like an "academic ****". Only matters to the person that had it.

And CAE status? I have not seen one single person care. EVER.

This might depend on your metro area. In DC, this does matter and I have seen both USAJobs and contractor jobs specifically list that the applicant attended a CAE school (Similar to them wanting to see that you have an ABET/STEM engineering degree.) Which, if you think about it, makes sense as a MSIA from a CAE school is geared towards the Federal market. DHS/NSA basically guide the curriculum. So, in a Fed heavy area like DC, yes, people do care about CAE, they sometimes do care about GPA. Outside of an area like DC or in the commercial world it probably won't matter one bit and might even work against you. I worry about this.

But, really, it's the ability to take 30 credits in six months. That caught me off-guard and I know that I latched onto this and degraded the school. When, in all reality, I am sure this is not normal and most people take 18 months or so, which is normal. Also, I don't know your schedule, you might have a fantastic job that allows the flexibility to accomplish the MS in six months. Which would be great way to do it as you'll be fully immersed in the program. Plus, you have much more certs and probably experience than I do. For me, my MS was extremely intensive and I almost did not make it, mentally that is.

da_vato

electronbee: your point of view is totally understandable. I have only heard of one person achieving the MSISA from WGU in 6 months, he admittedly was out of work and was able to focus entirely on his course work.

I am currently enrolled in the same program and will have completed in 12 months but the program is designed for 2 years. Some classes were right in line with what I do on a daily basis so the research was not that intensive (for me) in those particular classes.

Everyone’s mileage will vary and it would seem your no exception. If my memory serves me correctly the MSIA at Capitol-College is a two year program (and congratulations on your accomplishments within your program).

daviddws

Someone at my work recently finished this degree. He said some of the certifications were tough but it was worth it. The only thing I found odd was that if he turned a paper or two in and it was not up to snuff, they would return it to him to try again. This never happened to me in Graduate school. I received a grade and that was that.

colemic

@electronbee BTW congrats on finishing your degree, I hope I haven't given you the impression that your degree doesn't have value - it very much does. It's a huge accomplishment, and one should be proud of... just not at the expense of mine.

For the MSISA at WGU, (at least mine) I had classes that culminated in earning certs - CCENT, CEH, CHFI, and GIAC 2700. There's no other way to grade, except pass/fail.

CAE - while it appears to have value to your job market, to the majority of the country (outside of DC), it just doesn't mean a whole lot.

It took me a smidge over two years to complete mine... working on my second one now, to zero out my GI Bill (free education never hurts)

30 credits in one term - keep in mind that it's a 6-month term, not 4ish month like a traditional school... and if one had the time, there's no reason why they can't complete it in that timeframe, especially if you can work 4-6-8+ hours a day on it. That's what makes it so great - compared to a traditional classroom, you simply eliminate all the 'dead' time and days in between lectures, etc. It's just incredibly efficient. It's not perfect, but it does fill a need that b&m's don't seem interested in addressing.

I seriously considered Capitol... the expected cost was what turned me off, didn't have enough GI Bill money left to cover it. Even considering a doctoral program (if they would have me); that's a few years away though. Hopefully WGU's MSISA will continue to become more respected and appreciated, to where it can be used as a gateway to doctoral-level programs. Here's to hoping!

IMO the stigma w. my degree comes from it being online - I know first hand the coursework itself isn't easy. (Just ask anyone who had to take JFT2).

colemic

daviddws wrote: »

Someone at my work recently finished this degree. He said some of the certifications were tough but it was worth it. The only thing I found odd was that if he turned a paper or two in and it was not up to snuff, they would return it to him to try again. This never happened to me in Graduate school. I received a grade and that was that.

And the good thing about that, it forces you to meet the standard. And if it's doesn't, you do it until it is. I understand the point you're making, it's really 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of another. Both methodologies work. WGU's is more competency based, like I would expect in a real work environment. If I submit something to my boss that not's good enough, I get to do it again.

Mr. Meeseeks

electronbee wrote: »

It's the 30 credits in six months that made me worry about the quality of the program. Not that it's an online school. I love online education and it' the future. It's the quality of the instructor and not that it's a B&M vs online.

I'd like your opinion on this scenario.

"Bob" has been in IT for 25 years. He has kept up on trends and increased his knowledge hand-over-fist to the point where he is knowledgeable in most IT niches and could be considered an expert in many of them. Bob regrets never getting a college degree. Does it make sense for Bob to waste half his expected time at a B&M university, 2 or more years, taking classes on subjects he is extremely knowledgeable of?

exspiravit

Mr. Meeseeks wrote: »

I'd like your opinion on this scenario.

"Bob" has been in IT for 25 years. He has kept up on trends and increased his knowledge hand-over-fist to the point where he is knowledgeable in most IT niches and could be considered an expert in many of them. Bob regrets never getting a college degree. Does it make sense for Bob to waste half his expected time at a B&M university, 2 or more years, taking classes on subjects he is extremely knowledgeable of?

Oh man... that's a tough one. I did 8 years in the Navy as an Electronics Technician, so I have a lot of experience in telecommunications and edge networking. Guess what I got my BS in? Telecommunications Engineering. Sometimes I regret it as I felt it was a waste of time as I learned very little but it did formalize my experience and I'm a legit engineer. Looking back, I should have gone for a cyber security/IA related degree. Hind-sight is always 20/20 though.

If "Bob" has the certs to go with the experience, I'd suggest a degree in management like MIS.

The purpose of my MSIA was to solidify the patch-work knowledge that I picked up over the years and hopefully get a related job that blends my DoD centric telecom/network knowledge with IA in someway/somehow. Maybe in the fall that will happen once my CISSP endorsement goes through.