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Career lesson learned...

Architect192Architect192 Member Posts: 157 ■■■□□□□□□□
Well, I hope I've learned something...

I have been with the same company for the last 14 years, working as a consultant. No promotions, basic 2% raise/year, some great mandates, some not so great. I am fed up with getting praises from my clients and no recognition from my employer. Should have left a long time ago, but as some/most of you know, it's hard to get out of the comfort zone. I would have had a much better salary for the past few years if I had left them and moved on. But the longer I stayed, the harder I felt it was to leave.

Well... I am quitting tomorrow. Hopefully for greener pastures! But not too long (a few years)... The moment I feel too comfortable, I am going to jump ship and start over. So those of you who are starting careers, keep that in mind. Businesses are there to make money. And so should you. You feel you don't get what you deserve? Move on! My parents were from the generation of "you get a job and keep it for life". I was sort of thinking like that, but the job market has changed a lot, and the benefits of staying long term are gone. Don't care for a gold watch at retirement :)

Peace all, and wish me luck on my new adventure!
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    Rocket ImpossibleRocket Impossible Member Posts: 104
    Good luck! It takes courage to leave a comfortable situation, but it's an opportunity to learn and grow!
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    abyssinicaabyssinica Member Posts: 97 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Thanks for the advice.
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    Asif DaslAsif Dasl Member Posts: 2,116 ■■■■■■■■□□
    14 years is a very long time to be with one company, which makes your decision even more brave. You've got to look out for number 1 these days and if you can earn more someplace else then go for it! You know what they say - a change is as good as a rest! I wish you luck!
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    NinjaBoyNinjaBoy Member Posts: 968
    Congrats on your move and good luck with your future :)

    On the flip side if you're happy with your current employer and get things back (development, promotions, etc), then stay with your current employer.

    I've been with the same employer for the past decade, they have treated me right (ok, at times it was bumpy, but it was sorted) and I get lots of opportunities to develop as well as having a good work/life balance. I could have gone elsewhere and earned up to twice the amount of cash, but I would have lost out weeks per year of time with my family...
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    The_ExpertThe_Expert Member Posts: 136
    Your story sounds almost like mine - worked in a place for 16 years and wasn't going anywhere in my career. Then one day, I decided to move on.

    Well, things have not always been easy - but I have grown more over the past 1.5 years than ever before. I've started certifying and working on things I would have probably never dared to before.

    I think we should all move on from time to time. Otherwise, we'll be stuck doing the same old things - getting the same old pay.

    Good luck to you!
    Masters, Public Administration (MPA), Bachelor of Science, 20+ years of technical experience.

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    shauncarter1shauncarter1 Member Posts: 40 ■■□□□□□□□□
    NinjaBoy wrote: »
    Congrats on your move and good luck with your future :)

    On the flip side if you're happy with your current employer and get things back (development, promotions, etc), then stay with your current employer.

    I've been with the same employer for the past decade, they have treated me right (ok, at times it was bumpy, but it was sorted) and I get lots of opportunities to develop as well as having a good work/life balance. I could have gone elsewhere and earned up to twice the amount of cash, but I would have lost out weeks per year of time with my family...

    I'm a proponent of career progression and new challenges. I definitely think the old days of you get a job and keep are gone away for the private sector. However, as NinjaBoy mentions there is another side to this as well. I would say your parents philosophy still applies for employers who have rather lucrative pensions. If your pension is simply a 401k plan than the highest bidder approach is sound.
    B.S. - Business Administration - 2004
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    UkimokiaUkimokia Member Posts: 91 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I am fairly young and inexperienced. I've only been in the work force for just over a year, but in my personal opinion chasing the money isn't always the best option in my opinion. Yes you should always try to look for new opportunities and potential for growth, but if you're comfortable where you are and your job offers you good benefits, good work/life balance, decent pay, and good co-workers I don't see a need to uproot yourself because you're "too comfortable" It may be because I'm highly sentimental, but I believe you should look for new opportunities and chance for growth within your current company. If you don't even look then you're really not giving the place you've spent so much time at a chance to give you something new.

    If you've checked for in-house growth and development, the pay isn't enough for what you need, and the enviroment isn't the best, then in my personal opnion it is time to leave. Otherwise, I'd be more than happy to stay.
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    JockVSJockJockVSJock Member Posts: 1,118
    My parents were from the generation of "you get a job and keep it for life".

    This type of thinking is outdated and no longer applies to the 21st Century Work Force.

    I know, because this is how most of my relatives think.
    ***Freedom of Speech, Just Watch What You Say*** Example, Beware of CompTIA Certs (Deleted From Google Cached)

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    PlantwizPlantwiz Mod Posts: 5,057 Mod
    Well, you already have your mind made up, but I would challenge you and ask you how you have increased the bottom line over those past fourteen years?


    While I read about many touting (and no, no this thread, this is over the years here) that, 'never stay when you are getting paid 'x'', 'leave every two years for a new job', 'staying at the same employer is for those old folks' etc...

    What, as an employee have you done to make your employer be able to pay you additional money? And getting yearly raises is good, so you are at least trending in the right direction...albeit, not as quickly as you may like. Nothing wrong with leaving, especially if you have exhausted your abilities with this place and need something completely different. My comment is to help others reflect on where do they think the money comes from and how can an employer justify paying more to employees simply because the employee wants more pay? How as an individual have you improved the profitability? What have you done to increase your employers business to afford him/her to pay you $10k more per year? Are you covering more clients with more efficiency then you once did? Are you doing so in such a way that you are billing 10% more work than last year? Did you bring on additional clients, without losing good clients, that another tech was needed to handle all the extra workload? Or did you work to save the employer expenses from taxes, rent, utilities, etc.. To justify the extra pay?

    When we 'only' do our job, it makes it very difficult to receive additional pay for going "above and beyond". We are expected to do our jobs...that is part of the process. Being bored, is being bored. If you are in position to jump, then I suppose jump and good luck!

    If I did not enjoy what I was doing, I might wonder what else is out there, but there are many factors that go into pay. Smaller businesses have fewer ways to absorb expenses, so each employee needs to really pull their weight for the organization to be successful.

    I hope you find what you are looking for!
    Plantwiz
    _____
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    chopstickschopsticks Member Posts: 389
    I had the same exact experience just a few years back (I was with the same company for 10 years). After leaving, I realized the sky's the limit and my perspective is no longer the same since then. All the best to your new endeavor. icon_cheers.gif
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    no!all!no!all! Member Posts: 245 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Wow - I'm working as a consultant now, coming up on two years and already sick of it...

    Good luck with your future
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    TheEmperorTheEmperor Member Posts: 17 ■□□□□□□□□□
    This is where I am right now. I have been with the same employer for eight years, the pay and benefits are decent, they treat me like a "golden child" because I'm the only IT person locally, and great life/work balance, my co-workers are nice, so is my boss. But I don't see where I can move up in my position. We are a small company, everyone has their specific duties, I know mine and perform them well. I want to explore and expand my knowledge, I want to get into InfoSec, that's my passion, but at the same time, I have a family to support (a wife and two toddlers), I don't want to make my family suffer because I want to chase my dream. So I plan to earn more Certs to find a real IT job while still working here. I might have to give up family time if I can find a real IT job, that's a trade off I might not want to give up. I just want to share my thought. Thanks for reading.
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    Architect192Architect192 Member Posts: 157 ■■■□□□□□□□
    TheEmperor wrote: »
    This is where I am right now. I have been with the same employer for eight years, the pay and benefits are decent, they treat me like a "golden child" because I'm the only IT person locally, and great life/work balance, my co-workers are nice, so is my boss. But I don't see where I can move up in my position. We are a small company, everyone has their specific duties, I know mine and perform them well. I want to explore and expand my knowledge, I want to get into InfoSec, that's my passion, but at the same time, I have a family to support (a wife and two toddlers), I don't want to make my family suffer because I want to chase my dream. So I plan to earn more Certs to find a real IT job while still working here. I might have to give up family time if I can find a real IT job, that's a trade off I might not want to give up. I just want to share my thought. Thanks for reading.

    That was one of my issues, not wanting to put my family in jeopardy. My son is 18 now and has his own job so I'm less worried. Changing job is a calculated risk, but I was too chicken to do it, and it basically affected my health and self-esteem. To each his own, but if I had to do it again, I would have moved the minute I realized there is no growth for me there. Not just the $$... Challenges, being valued by the employer, etc...
    Current: VCAP-DCA/DCD, VCP-DCV2/3/4/5, VCP-NV 6 - CCNP, CCNA Security - MCSE: Server Infrastructure 2012 - ITIL v3 - A+ - Security+
    Working on: CCNA Datacenter (2nd exam), Renewing VMware certs...
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    Architect192Architect192 Member Posts: 157 ■■■□□□□□□□
    @PlantWiz, I agree with you but when you are already billing 100% of your time, you get customer evals that "exceed expectations" every time, what more can you do? Not about to work 60 hours a week for the same pay to MAYBE get something in return...
    Current: VCAP-DCA/DCD, VCP-DCV2/3/4/5, VCP-NV 6 - CCNP, CCNA Security - MCSE: Server Infrastructure 2012 - ITIL v3 - A+ - Security+
    Working on: CCNA Datacenter (2nd exam), Renewing VMware certs...
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    srabieesrabiee Member Posts: 1,231 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Most of the time, you have to move out to move up. Sad but true.

    Good luck!
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    PlantwizPlantwiz Mod Posts: 5,057 Mod
    @PlantWiz, I agree with you but when you are already billing 100% of your time, you get customer evals that "exceed expectations" every time, what more can you do? Not about to work 60 hours a week for the same pay to MAYBE get something in return...

    No disagreement there, but turn it around, how as an employer do you pay your employee more for doing the same amount of work they always have done? If no additional income is generated, how does the employer come up with the extra money to pay out more?

    Is the employer supposed to work 80 hours ((and I got to says this is frequently the case) so that more dollars are being collected to merely pay the operating bills), while the employees work 40?
    Plantwiz
    _____
    "Grammar and spelling aren't everything, but this is a forum, not a chat room. You have plenty of time to spell out the word "you", and look just a little bit smarter." by Phaideaux

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    'i' before 'e' except after 'c'.... weird?
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    erock139erock139 Registered Users Posts: 1 ■□□□□□□□□□
    (Registered just to respond to this.) Unfortunately, many places see IT in general as an expense/service rather than a product with an ROI. By and large. Sure, I can save my attorney a few minutes here and there which equates to money, but we're an expense rather than something that produces actual cash to a firm. At any rate, in my 8 years doing IT, unfortunately I've had to move every 18 months to 2 years to see the pay increases my job warrants, or the pay increases I deserve based on hours worked and experience. It's just the way it goes. You get the regular bump ~3%, maybe a bonus if you're working in NYC, but that's it. Those in IT that are comfortable where they are (especially if they've been there for a while) usually stay there. Directors, Managers, etc. It can be an easy life for them. The tech support and HD associates of the world have to move, request a 20% bump (at least) in salary and repeat until you've found the right mix of pay-to-hours-to-stress-to-family-life balance. All while being challenged. Often times I have found you have to leave to get your worth. Sad but true. Things change if you kids as well. Good look though.
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    UnixGuyUnixGuy Mod Posts: 4,567 Mod
    Plantwiz wrote: »
    ...
    ...What have you done to increase your employers business to afford him/her to pay you $10k more per year?...

    ...


    Honestly, I have zero sympathy for businesses. What have the executives done to deserve their bonuses?

    Wanna make everyone happier? take 1% of the bonuses of those executives and give it as raises to the employees. Or perhaps fly them executives in normal plane tickets rather than business tickets - problem solved.


    As an employee, follow your best interest. Businesses CAN afford to pay employees more money, it's just that decision makers in businesses (i.e. upper management) prefer to pay themselves the big bucks and then go and negotiate peanuts with employees, telling them tales about loyalty, financial crisis, cutting costs...etc.


    This is the thought process of a typical manager/executive: "This department made more profit this year, so I'll reward myself with a 20K bonus this year. If they work harder and earn me 5K more, I'll give them 2% raise...ok hold on I'll research the market rates and see if I can get away with paying them less..."


    Zero sympathy.

    For guys with families...stagnation is more dangerous for your family than you moving. Plan your move carefully, and go do whats best for you and your family. I worked in different countries and in different jobs, you are responsible for your own life. Man up.
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    Architect192Architect192 Member Posts: 157 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Plantwiz wrote: »
    No disagreement there, but turn it around, how as an employer do you pay your employee more for doing the same amount of work they always have done? If no additional income is generated, how does the employer come up with the extra money to pay out more?

    Is the employer supposed to work 80 hours ((and I got to says this is frequently the case) so that more dollars are being collected to merely pay the operating bills), while the employees work 40?

    Well, when the market pays for example 100K$ for the same position, and you're earning somewhat below that, it's not a matter of bringing in more $ to justify your increase. It's simply being fair and ensuring retention by matching what the competition offers for the same skillset.

    I'm pretty sure they weren't selling my services for less than the guys earning 10-15K$ more for doing the same job... And that the clients find just ok... Ensuring customer satisfaction and return business IS increasing the bottom line. I was sent on many mandates for 2-3 weeks and ended up upselling myself and working there for months (and in one case 2 years)...
    Current: VCAP-DCA/DCD, VCP-DCV2/3/4/5, VCP-NV 6 - CCNP, CCNA Security - MCSE: Server Infrastructure 2012 - ITIL v3 - A+ - Security+
    Working on: CCNA Datacenter (2nd exam), Renewing VMware certs...
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    Architect192Architect192 Member Posts: 157 ■■■□□□□□□□
    UnixGuy wrote: »
    Honestly, I have zero sympathy for businesses. What have the executives done to deserve their bonuses?
    ...
    Zero sympathy.

    I'm 100% with you here!
    Current: VCAP-DCA/DCD, VCP-DCV2/3/4/5, VCP-NV 6 - CCNP, CCNA Security - MCSE: Server Infrastructure 2012 - ITIL v3 - A+ - Security+
    Working on: CCNA Datacenter (2nd exam), Renewing VMware certs...
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    PlantwizPlantwiz Mod Posts: 5,057 Mod
    So, why not go out on your own?

    The above situation is regarding small business owners with a few techs, not some global corporation.

    I have seen the books on a number of these small businesses, and those making a million or less, by the time they pay staff, taxes, rent, misc normal expenses (equipment and replace equipment employees lose or damage) and even training...the owner doesn't bring home tens of thousands more then their techs and they get all the headaches.

    Even I mentioned if the position has been outgrown, time to move forward, but simply putting the screws to the small business owners because you have done a good job for a number of years, well, take the risk on your own. Not every business has unlimited deep pockets to pull out of.
    Plantwiz
    _____
    "Grammar and spelling aren't everything, but this is a forum, not a chat room. You have plenty of time to spell out the word "you", and look just a little bit smarter." by Phaideaux

    ***I'll add you can Capitalize the word 'I' to show a little respect for yourself too.

    'i' before 'e' except after 'c'.... weird?
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    UnixGuyUnixGuy Mod Posts: 4,567 Mod
    Plantwiz wrote: »
    So, why not go out on your own?

    .....


    Because we are already on our own! I think of myself as an independent consultant, even though I'm a full time sysadmin...my employer don't owe me a full time job and I don't owe them anything either. It's simple business, I get paid for my work. They make profit off me (indirectly). If they don't need me, they will stop paying me. If I leave, they will find someone else.


    Small business or large massive corporations - I don't see a difference. Small business => profit goes to one person or to few people. Large Businesses => profit goes to share holders or whoever.


    If a small business owner can't make much money, well too bad! I'll move on. They can try to make more money off another cheaper resource and continue to be the boss.


    We don't put screws to small businesses, if the said small business depends on one single person then I think this is poor business planning and they will not survive anyway. If the said small business can't make profit off you, they will fire you.


    We both agree that 'someone thinks they did a good job then they deserve a raise' is a bad strategy.


    My point is, if you can make more money somewhere else (while keeping in mind things like work/life balance, and long term personal goals) then you have yourself to blame for not doing what's best for you and your family. No one else will ever do what's best for you.
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    ccnpninjaccnpninja Member Posts: 1,010 ■■■□□□□□□□
    UnixGuy wrote: »
    Because we are already on our own! I think of myself as an independent consultant, even though I'm a full time sysadmin...my employer don't owe me a full time job and I don't owe them anything either. It's simple business, I get paid for my work. They make profit off me (indirectly). If they don't need me, they will stop paying me. If I leave, they will find someone else.


    Small business or large massive corporations - I don't see a difference. Small business => profit goes to one person or to few people. Large Businesses => profit goes to share holders or whoever.


    If a small business owner can't make much money, well too bad! I'll move on. They can try to make more money off another cheaper resource and continue to be the boss.


    We don't put screws to small businesses, if the said small business depends on one single person then I think this is poor business planning and they will not survive anyway. If the said small business can't make profit off you, they will fire you.


    We both agree that 'someone thinks they did a good job then they deserve a raise' is a bad strategy.


    My point is, if you can make more money somewhere else (while keeping in mind things like work/life balance, and long term personal goals) then you have yourself to blame for not doing what's best for you and your family. No one else will ever do what's best for you.

    Wise man
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    BradleyHUBradleyHU Member Posts: 918 ■■■■□□□□□□
    JockVSJock wrote: »
    This type of thinking is outdated and no longer applies to the 21st Century Work Force.

    I know, because this is how most of my relatives think.

    that, and also the fact that a lot of companies have no loyalty to their employees. if they think you or your dept are costing them too much, they'll drop you like a bad habit....

    the most I've stayed with a firm is 2yrs 5months...i can't see myself staying anywhere for more than 5 years at the most, unless I'm sky-rocketing to C-level position...

    and all this talk about pension....very few places have pensions anymore, its all 401K(and you'll be lucky if a company matches over 3%), 403b, etc....
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    N2ITN2IT Inactive Imported Users Posts: 7,483 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Good luck! I wish you the best, 14 years is a LONG time.

    Keep us posted on your successes!
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    chopstickschopsticks Member Posts: 389
    Speaking about it, I'm now in this company for almost 3 years, I think it's again time to move on. Loyalty is a myth of the past.
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    ExpectExpect Member Posts: 252 ■■■■□□□□□□
    Researches claim that in order to get into better positions and not get stuck (in terms of salary) is to move jobs every 2 years. that's how it works today.
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    tkerbertkerber Member Posts: 223
    It's sad but true. Loyalty doesn't get you anywhere anymore and with inflation rates rising high, I definitely don't see myself at any company for more than a couple of years as well, unless they compensate me accordingly

    It truly is sad the way companies treat people nowadays, so I have no mercy dumping them and going elsewhere. My dad is 60 and about to retire next year as a Metallurgical Engineer. 43 years he worked at his company, and he said he's so glad to be out of this crazy work force of 60 hour weeks and treating people like machines. It's also amazing to think I've already had more than twice as many jobs as he has and I've been in the work force for 3 and a half years.
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    LinuxRacrLinuxRacr Member Posts: 653 ■■■■□□□□□□
    This thread is full of greatness.

    Let's just say that the wise advice given in this thread has vindicated my decisions over the past few years. I have learned to trust my intuition more when things don't feel right, and seek or create other opportunities. As a result I was able to gain key skills and insight that I wouldn't have if I would have stayed put. Also if I would have stayed put, my number would have eventually come up for surplussing. I just recently became a contractor again after 14 years, and I am no longer afraid of the stigma associated risk that being a contractor brings. It helps that I'm on my wife's benefits. :) Also, the gains in skills and knowledge are worth the risk to keep me employable.
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    Architect192Architect192 Member Posts: 157 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Well, the move is made, I just finished my first week at the new place. Leaving was much easier than I thought, as I was at peace with my decision. Having to adjust from being a consultant to an "internal" employee is kind of tough though... I keep referring to "yours infrastructure" and "your network" etc... It's funny. I have to take ownership of it now, instead of working on someone else's stuff lol

    So far I'm happy with the move, it's not perfect (never is) but it's definitely a step up. I have to prove myself yet again but that shouldn't take too long.

    Good luck to anyone out there thinking of doing the same. Leaving the comfort zone isn't easy! I just wish I did it sooner :)
    Current: VCAP-DCA/DCD, VCP-DCV2/3/4/5, VCP-NV 6 - CCNP, CCNA Security - MCSE: Server Infrastructure 2012 - ITIL v3 - A+ - Security+
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