When pay is rarely disclosed. How do you avoid seeking jobs below your pay grade?
mxmaniac
Member Posts: 49 ■■□□□□□□□□
It always has seemed goofy to me that pay levels are such a taboo subject. Rarely disclosed in the beginning, and usually not negotiated until an offer is made.
However a major problem is, in general, different companies can have radically different pay levels, even for the same title. I've worked in a position before where I was making about $36 /hr with one company, when other companies were paying around $12 /hr for basically the same title/responsibilities. Trying to use salary research sites would seem ineffective, when some companies simply pay much higher or lower than the averages for the same title.
Is there a polite, and professionally accepted way to basically say right off the bat "Hey, I'm interested, but before I even consider taking a day off and coming in for an interview, I need to know were on a similar page, and your prepared to pay at least somewhere in the range of $XX - $XX /hr if I get the job, otherwise we'd be wasting each others time." ?
However a major problem is, in general, different companies can have radically different pay levels, even for the same title. I've worked in a position before where I was making about $36 /hr with one company, when other companies were paying around $12 /hr for basically the same title/responsibilities. Trying to use salary research sites would seem ineffective, when some companies simply pay much higher or lower than the averages for the same title.
Is there a polite, and professionally accepted way to basically say right off the bat "Hey, I'm interested, but before I even consider taking a day off and coming in for an interview, I need to know were on a similar page, and your prepared to pay at least somewhere in the range of $XX - $XX /hr if I get the job, otherwise we'd be wasting each others time." ?
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Shdwmage
Member Posts: 374
I always ask what the anticipated pay range is and leave it at that. If they aren't willing to share, I'm not willing to go any further.--
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BradleyHU
Member Posts: 918 ■■■■□□□□□□
I always ask what the anticipated pay range is and leave it at that. If they aren't willing to share, I'm not willing to go any further.
basically...i always get that out of the way when they first contact me about being interested in speaking to me. Why waste everyone's time?Link Me
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cyberguypr
Mod Posts: 6,928 Mod
Absolutely. Give me a range or give me death. No point in using PTO to go to interviews if it's going to end nowhere. -
yeah yeah
Member Posts: 77 ■■□□□□□□□□
IMO, it all depends. If you're new to the game, you probably haven't identified how much your worth yet. So, get it out of the way right away. "What's the salary range for this position?" No point on wasting time with all this back and forth nonsense when the pay ain't for you. If you already established your worth, and know what you need for a new job, lay it out there. Recruiters are the same way, as they don't have the time to waste. They'll ask you what your requirements are. "I need X amount." If it's within there range they'll entertain you and move from there. If it's outside, they'll tell you as well.
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paul78
Member Posts: 3,016 ■■■■■■■■■■
Do hiring organizations really not want to talk about compensation for a position? That's kinda weird to hear. I can imagine that to be the case if it's a third-party recruiter. But I know that whenever I am hiring, I'm not interested in wasting either my time or the candidates if the basics of compensation aren't even in the ballpark. Usually our internal recruiters have no interest in wasting anyone's time if there isn't that baseline fit.
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tprice5
Member Posts: 770
Do hiring organizations really not want to talk about compensation for a position? That's kinda weird to hear.
This is a good opportunity to feel the company out. If they become indignant when discussing salary, it is a red flag and you should either run or proceed with caution.
It still amazes me that this attitude even exists. Companies do, in fact, exist to make money. They adhere to the bottom line and live and die by their balance sheets. If they attempt to apply a double standard towards the employee, as if he/she should display some sort of loyalty and hold virtue over compensation, well, I call bullshit.
The only reason I am sitting at this desk and not on a boat or climbing a mountain is because I have mouths to feed. Not that I don't enjoy my work, but let's not pretend like the entire purpose of all of this isn't to make money. Any hiring manager who doesn't recognize this simply is not worth my time.Certification To-Do: CEH [ ], CHFI [ ], NCSA [ ], E10-001 [ ], 70-413 [ ], 70-414 [ ]
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SephStorm
Member Posts: 1,731 ■■■■■■■□□□
Its been like pulling teeth for me. No one has a range listed, and as a newcomer, I just want something livable in the area. but they always expect me to throw out a number. And when you grow up barely having seen a hundred dollar bill, asking for 50k+ makes you feel so uncomfortable... If the range is listed on an application, then at least I am comfortable with what i'm asking for. I'll probably go for the lower end anyway. -
tprice5
Member Posts: 770
Its been like pulling teeth for me. No one has a range listed, and as a newcomer, I just want something livable in the area. but they always expect me to throw out a number. And when you grow up barely having seen a hundred dollar bill, asking for 50k+ makes you feel so uncomfortable... If the range is listed on an application, then at least I am comfortable with what i'm asking for. I'll probably go for the lower end anyway.
Just research the average for the area and request that. You will hardly find any defense more justifiable than, "I am simply asking the market rate".Certification To-Do: CEH [ ], CHFI [ ], NCSA [ ], E10-001 [ ], 70-413 [ ], 70-414 [ ]
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jibbajabba
Member Posts: 4,317 ■■■■■■■■□□
Always does my head in. Almost 100% of the time when I ask about the range they counter ask what my current salary is. Always like pulling teeth.My own knowledge base made public: http://open902.com
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srabiee
Member Posts: 1,231 ■■■■■■■■□□
jibbajabba wrote: »Almost 100% of the time when I ask about the range they counter ask what my current salary is. Always like pulling teeth.
If you are currently employed, tell them you are unable to answer that question due to contractual obligations. They won't be able to argue the issue any further.WGU Progress: Master of Science - Information Technology Management (Start Date: February 1, 2015)
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tprice5
Member Posts: 770
If you are currently employed, tell them you are unable to answer that question due to contractual obligations. They won't be able to argue the issue any further.
BOOM!
Going in my playbook. +1Certification To-Do: CEH [ ], CHFI [ ], NCSA [ ], E10-001 [ ], 70-413 [ ], 70-414 [ ]
WGU MSISA
Start Date: 10/01/2014 | Complete Date: ASAP
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jibbajabba
Member Posts: 4,317 ■■■■■■■■□□
If you are currently employed, tell them you are unable to answer that question due to contractual obligations. They won't be able to argue the issue any further.
Oh yea for sure .. Learned that here in the forums a whole ago.My own knowledge base made public: http://open902.com -
devils_haircut
Member Posts: 284 ■■■□□□□□□□
let's not pretend like the entire purpose of all of this isn't to make money.
This x1000. I can understand when you are dealing with recruiters who are in a position where they get paid based of what salary they get you to accept, but in a direct-hire situation, there shouldn't be any reason why they would balk at disclosing a salary range. I would say the #1 reason why ANYONE works is for the income to support themselves (unless you are wealthy). -
Danielm7
Member Posts: 2,310 ■■■■■■■■□□
It still amazes me that this attitude even exists. Companies do, in fact, exist to make money. They adhere to the bottom line and live and die by their balance sheets. If they attempt to apply a double standard towards the employee, as if he/she should display some sort of loyalty and hold virtue over compensation, well, I call bullshit.
The only reason I am sitting at this desk and not on a boat or climbing a mountain is because I have mouths to feed. Not that I don't enjoy my work, but let's not pretend like the entire purpose of all of this isn't to make money. Any hiring manager who doesn't recognize this simply is not worth my time.
This is so true. They'd do a corporate re-org and shuffle anyone out in a flat second. But, even during the interview when you don't even have a real feel for them they want you to say you'll go above and beyond, without question and never care about money only to serve based on your loyalty for the company.
The best thing I've found with most recruiters is you can be super blunt about the salary. They can be a sentence into telling you about the position and you can cut them off and ask what it pays without feeling like it is going to be counted against you. With direct HR people it is a little trickier, some might think it is fine but there are likely plenty of really great companies that any of us would love to work for, that have an HR person who would disqualify you for asking, it's silly.
